What did Ryan learn in Dallas?

papz · 02-11-2013, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Clearly what Payton wants. Why else would he go out and hire "GW Light"?

Exactly how I would have described him. We loved that pressure type defense. We craved that pressure type defense. We missed that pressure type defense. We just need it tweaked a little so we aren't as wreckless as we were under Williams.

With that said, even though we were wreckless and played poorly towards the end of Williams' tenure, had we tackled better... the results would have been much better. It wasn't really as bad as it looked had players just finished their job.

TheOak · 02-11-2013, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

That reminds me of 2007/08 when folks were ready to jettison Sean Payton.

Ryan was a damn good DC in Dallas IMO. He was made the scapegoat by a team that, let's face it, won't be accused of making the most rational decisions.

You wanted an installer - you've got one.

You wanted aggressive - you've got one.

Look all the things that the media is bagging on Ryan for is exactly what his players - his ALPHA MALE players - love and revel about him.

Perfection? No. But I do expect to see a dramatic improvement.

The Sean Payton comparison is a good a good fit for keeping Spags and not hiring Ryan.

I want an installer... As pointed out Ryan hasn't done that yet.

I want an aggressive defense, I don't particularly care for a flamboyant coach. 2012 was enough drama for me for a while.

So here is my point. On a 1-10 scale Spags is a 0 and Ryan is a 5... A 17 ranked defense. We had a 5 DC before, his name was Williams and people wanted him gone near the end of 2012. Now all of a sudden people are happy with mediocrity.

Some of the same people that wanted a top 10 defense are now ecstatic at the possibility of one ranked 16.

So we shoot for the middle at a time when we can shoot for the top. All it takes for our offense to fall from grace is a couple of key injuries and we are sucking hind tit again.

Romeo is still the choice we should have made at any expense. There is no coaches cap.

Danno · 02-11-2013, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

The Sean Payton comparison is a good a good fit for keeping Spags and not hiring Ryan.

I want an installer... As pointed out Ryan hasn't done that yet.

I want an aggressive defense, I don't particularly care for a flamboyant coach. 2012 was enough drama for me for a while.

So here is my point. On a 1-10 scale Spags is a 0 and Ryan is a 5... A 17 ranked defense. We had a 5 DC before, his name was Williams and people wanted him gone near the end of 2012. Now all of a sudden people are happy with mediocrity.

Some of the same people that wanted a top 10 defense are now ecstatic at the possibility of one ranked 16.

So we shoot for the middle at a time when we can shoot for the top. All it takes for our offense to fall from grace is a couple of key injuries and we are sucking hind tit again.

Romeo is still the choice we should have made at any expense. There is no coaches cap.

I don't think you can judge Ryan's future success here based on his previous jobs. He was with the top 3 most disfunctional franchises in all of the NFL.

And as many have pointed out he was coaching a top 5 unit before injuries to his star players started multiplying.

I don't care if the guy has a mouth and ego bigger than Rosanne Barr as long as he gets the job done.

And the GW comparisons hold no water. They are 2 different coaches and two different systems. The ONLY thing they have in common is they're aggressive, vocal and cocky. I'm perfectly OK with that if it yields results.

We're converting to the 3-4 and we hired one of the best available for the job. He may not be Romeo Crennel, my personal favorite, but he's not that far removed from it either.

Jamessr · 02-11-2013, 04:26 PM

Ryan > Spags

TheOak · 02-11-2013, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I don't think you can judge Ryan's future success here based on his previous jobs.

So if one does not base anticipation on history, what does one base it on?

Now if your going to say give him a shot.... Fair enough.

If your going to say there is something in his past that proves he can be successful, I just don't see it.

Danno · 02-11-2013, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So if one does not base anticipation on history, what does one base it on?

Now if your going to say give him a shot.... Fair enough.

If your going to say there is something in his past that proves he can be successful, I just don't see it.

I'd consider taking abysmal franchises and making them halfway respectable pretty successful.

When Sean Payton was hired many questioned why we'd hire an offensive minded coach who was so bad at play calling that he had his play calling duties taken away from him. That worked out OK.

The Pats decided to hire a coach that was a total failure in Cleveland. He's now the most respected coach in all of the NFL and likely a 1st ballot hall of famer.

Wade Phillips, another DC with an up and down record, took the worst ranked defense in the entire NFL and made them one of the best, in just one season.

saintsfan1976 · 02-11-2013, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

The Sean Payton comparison is a good a good fit for keeping Spags and not hiring Ryan.

I want an installer... As pointed out Ryan hasn't done that yet.

I want an aggressive defense, I don't particularly care for a flamboyant coach. 2012 was enough drama for me for a while.

So here is my point. On a 1-10 scale Spags is a 0 and Ryan is a 5... A 17 ranked defense. We had a 5 DC before, his name was Williams and people wanted him gone near the end of 2012. Now all of a sudden people are happy with mediocrity.

Some of the same people that wanted a top 10 defense are now ecstatic at the possibility of one ranked 16.

So we shoot for the middle at a time when we can shoot for the top. All it takes for our offense to fall from grace is a couple of key injuries and we are sucking hind tit again.

Romeo is still the choice we should have made at any expense. There is no coaches cap.

Oak, if Ryan has coached his father's offense since day one, how is that not installing it in New Orleans?

Don't take end of the season statistics as a complete indicator of success. And before you call me Randy Moss - think about the bumbling offenses Ryan shared the sidelines with.

TheOak · 02-11-2013, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I'd consider taking abysmal franchises and making them halfway respectable pretty successful.

When Sean Payton was hired many questioned why we'd hire an offensive minded coach who was so bad at play calling that he had his play calling duties taken away from him. That worked out OK.

The Pats decided to hire a coach that was a total failure in Cleveland. He's now the most respected coach in all of the NFL and likely a 1st ballot hall of famer.

Wade Phillips, another DC with an up and down record, took the worst ranked defense in the entire NFL and made them one of the best, in just one season.

So we are getting Wade or Belichick?

Lets see how Belichick does after Brady. Their success has been tied together since Brady's third start I believe it was. And while the perception is that Robert Krafts move of stealing him from the Jets was brilliant, his decisions didn't fair quite as well with Pete Carrol before that.

I understand your point, you listed a few Cinderella stories. The odds are not on our side.

TheOak · 02-11-2013, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Oak, if Ryan has coached his father's offense since day one, how is that not installing it in New Orleans?

Don't take end of the season statistics as a complete indicator of success. And before you call me Randy Moss - think about the bumbling offenses Ryan shared the sidelines with.

You completely lost me with the first paragraph. His father has an offense and its coming to New Orleans?

On the second, is never call you the greatest wife receiver of all time . :P

saintsfan1976 · 02-11-2013, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

You completely lost me with the first paragraph. His father has an offense and its coming to New Orleans?

On the second, is never call you the greatest wife receiver of all time . :P

No... but I bet ol Robby will wreak havoc on the New Orleans dining scene that will be considered OFFENSIVE

defense, i meant defense.

02-11-2013, 08:52 AM	#21
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	Re: What did Ryan learn in Dallas? Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Clearly what Payton wants. Why else would he go out and hire "GW Light"? Exactly how I would have described him. We loved that pressure type defense. We craved that pressure type defense. We missed that pressure type defense. We just need it tweaked a little so we aren't as wreckless as we were under Williams. With that said, even though we were wreckless and played poorly towards the end of Williams' tenure, had we tackled better... the results would have been much better. It wasn't really as bad as it looked had players just finished their job.

02-11-2013, 03:36 PM	#22
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 That reminds me of 2007/08 when folks were ready to jettison Sean Payton. Ryan was a damn good DC in Dallas IMO. He was made the scapegoat by a team that, let's face it, won't be accused of making the most rational decisions. You wanted an installer - you've got one. You wanted aggressive - you've got one. Look all the things that the media is bagging on Ryan for is exactly what his players - his ALPHA MALE players - love and revel about him. Perfection? No. But I do expect to see a dramatic improvement. The Sean Payton comparison is a good a good fit for keeping Spags and not hiring Ryan. I want an installer... As pointed out Ryan hasn't done that yet. I want an aggressive defense, I don't particularly care for a flamboyant coach. 2012 was enough drama for me for a while. So here is my point. On a 1-10 scale Spags is a 0 and Ryan is a 5... A 17 ranked defense. We had a 5 DC before, his name was Williams and people wanted him gone near the end of 2012. Now all of a sudden people are happy with mediocrity. Some of the same people that wanted a top 10 defense are now ecstatic at the possibility of one ranked 16. So we shoot for the middle at a time when we can shoot for the top. All it takes for our offense to fall from grace is a couple of key injuries and we are sucking hind tit again. Romeo is still the choice we should have made at any expense. There is no coaches cap.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

02-11-2013, 04:22 PM	#23
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Re: What did Ryan learn in Dallas? Originally Posted by TheOak The Sean Payton comparison is a good a good fit for keeping Spags and not hiring Ryan. I want an installer... As pointed out Ryan hasn't done that yet. I want an aggressive defense, I don't particularly care for a flamboyant coach. 2012 was enough drama for me for a while. So here is my point. On a 1-10 scale Spags is a 0 and Ryan is a 5... A 17 ranked defense. We had a 5 DC before, his name was Williams and people wanted him gone near the end of 2012. Now all of a sudden people are happy with mediocrity. Some of the same people that wanted a top 10 defense are now ecstatic at the possibility of one ranked 16. So we shoot for the middle at a time when we can shoot for the top. All it takes for our offense to fall from grace is a couple of key injuries and we are sucking hind tit again. Romeo is still the choice we should have made at any expense. There is no coaches cap. I don't think you can judge Ryan's future success here based on his previous jobs. He was with the top 3 most disfunctional franchises in all of the NFL. And as many have pointed out he was coaching a top 5 unit before injuries to his star players started multiplying. I don't care if the guy has a mouth and ego bigger than Rosanne Barr as long as he gets the job done. And the GW comparisons hold no water. They are 2 different coaches and two different systems. The ONLY thing they have in common is they're aggressive, vocal and cocky. I'm perfectly OK with that if it yields results. We're converting to the 3-4 and we hired one of the best available for the job. He may not be Romeo Crennel, my personal favorite, but he's not that far removed from it either.

02-11-2013, 04:26 PM	#24
Jamessr 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 1,583	Re: What did Ryan learn in Dallas? Ryan > Spags

02-11-2013, 04:53 PM	#25
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Originally Posted by Danno I don't think you can judge Ryan's future success here based on his previous jobs. So if one does not base anticipation on history, what does one base it on? Now if your going to say give him a shot.... Fair enough. If your going to say there is something in his past that proves he can be successful, I just don't see it.

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02-11-2013, 05:09 PM	#26
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Re: What did Ryan learn in Dallas? Originally Posted by TheOak So if one does not base anticipation on history, what does one base it on? Now if your going to say give him a shot.... Fair enough. If your going to say there is something in his past that proves he can be successful, I just don't see it. I'd consider taking abysmal franchises and making them halfway respectable pretty successful. When Sean Payton was hired many questioned why we'd hire an offensive minded coach who was so bad at play calling that he had his play calling duties taken away from him. That worked out OK. The Pats decided to hire a coach that was a total failure in Cleveland. He's now the most respected coach in all of the NFL and likely a 1st ballot hall of famer. Wade Phillips, another DC with an up and down record, took the worst ranked defense in the entire NFL and made them one of the best, in just one season. CharityMike likes this.

02-11-2013, 05:24 PM	#27
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What did Ryan learn in Dallas? Originally Posted by TheOak The Sean Payton comparison is a good a good fit for keeping Spags and not hiring Ryan. I want an installer... As pointed out Ryan hasn't done that yet. I want an aggressive defense, I don't particularly care for a flamboyant coach. 2012 was enough drama for me for a while. So here is my point. On a 1-10 scale Spags is a 0 and Ryan is a 5... A 17 ranked defense. We had a 5 DC before, his name was Williams and people wanted him gone near the end of 2012. Now all of a sudden people are happy with mediocrity. Some of the same people that wanted a top 10 defense are now ecstatic at the possibility of one ranked 16. So we shoot for the middle at a time when we can shoot for the top. All it takes for our offense to fall from grace is a couple of key injuries and we are sucking hind tit again. Romeo is still the choice we should have made at any expense. There is no coaches cap. Oak, if Ryan has coached his father's offense since day one, how is that not installing it in New Orleans? Don't take end of the season statistics as a complete indicator of success. And before you call me Randy Moss - think about the bumbling offenses Ryan shared the sidelines with.

02-11-2013, 05:25 PM	#28
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Originally Posted by Danno I'd consider taking abysmal franchises and making them halfway respectable pretty successful. When Sean Payton was hired many questioned why we'd hire an offensive minded coach who was so bad at play calling that he had his play calling duties taken away from him. That worked out OK. The Pats decided to hire a coach that was a total failure in Cleveland. He's now the most respected coach in all of the NFL and likely a 1st ballot hall of famer. Wade Phillips, another DC with an up and down record, took the worst ranked defense in the entire NFL and made them one of the best, in just one season. So we are getting Wade or Belichick? Lets see how Belichick does after Brady. Their success has been tied together since Brady's third start I believe it was. And while the perception is that Robert Krafts move of stealing him from the Jets was brilliant, his decisions didn't fair quite as well with Pete Carrol before that. I understand your point, you listed a few Cinderella stories. The odds are not on our side.

02-11-2013, 05:27 PM	#29
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,019	Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Oak, if Ryan has coached his father's offense since day one, how is that not installing it in New Orleans? Don't take end of the season statistics as a complete indicator of success. And before you call me Randy Moss - think about the bumbling offenses Ryan shared the sidelines with. You completely lost me with the first paragraph. His father has an offense and its coming to New Orleans? On the second, is never call you the greatest wife receiver of all time . :P

02-11-2013, 05:31 PM	#30
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,806 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What did Ryan learn in Dallas? Originally Posted by TheOak You completely lost me with the first paragraph. His father has an offense and its coming to New Orleans? On the second, is never call you the greatest wife receiver of all time . :P No... but I bet ol Robby will wreak havoc on the New Orleans dining scene that will be considered OFFENSIVE defense, i meant defense. TheOak likes this.

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