2013 Player Salaries

jjasso007 · 02-10-2013, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by pherein

I know , its sad Harper would ever make more than Greer. Im pretty sure Vilma ( not 3-4) , Harper (definitely not 3-4 0r 4-3 ), and Smith (not 3-4 ) are gone without a shot of restructuring.
I dont believe loomis will even consider the possibility. Its nothing personal, just CAP control, and he can get guys cheaper, and have the same performance of Smith and Harper, and save a few million for FA. Vilma's position was was filled while he was out. We have 8 LB's, 9 if you count Johnson. I just dont see a restructure in his future. Oh and Shantle is gone to.

Whether or not Harper is cut, due to his large contract, remains to be seen. But didn't Rafeal Bush play well at SS for us this season when he was thrown in there?

As for our LB situation, I think Lofton and Hawthorne will be find at MLB. As for OLB, Wilson and Gallette can man those. The other LBers on our team (Chamberlain, Herring, Humber)... not sure how they necessarily fit. I think Casillas can be a rush LBer for us. I can remember plays where he blitzes and just blows up whoever gets in his way. Love the fire that man brings when he rushes the QB!

pherein · 02-10-2013, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by jjasso007

Whether or not Harper is cut, due to his large contract, remains to be seen. But didn't Rafeal Bush play well at SS for us this season when he was thrown in there?

As for our LB situation, I think Lofton and Hawthorne will be find at MLB. As for OLB, Wilson and Gallette can man those. The other LBers on our team (Chamberlain, Herring, Humber)... not sure how they necessarily fit. I think Casillas can be a rush LBer for us. I can remember plays where he blitzes and just blows up whoever gets in his way. Love the fire that man brings when he rushes the QB!

Bush did a pretty good job. Im no expert, but he looked ok. Especially in the SF and Bucks games. I knock Harper sometimes, but hes good at some things.
Im just not seeing how he fits at all in a 3-4. He is not good at pass coverage,
and with UFA's like Patrick Chung on the market that will cost way less, and have 3-4 experience… I see his demise as iminiate.

Lofton and Hawthorne are pretty solid, and OLB, Wilson and Gallette could really work. I like Herring, he is really good in pass coverage and pulls off some wicked stops. I think he fits in a 3-4, and is cheap. Casillas is a pretty tough kid, love his 100%, all out additude. Im sure he will survive.

Bring on Romeus !!!! What a killer name for a DE, to bad his mom named him greg.

FinSaint · 02-10-2013, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by jjasso007

As for our LB situation, I think Lofton and Hawthorne will be find at MLB. As for OLB, Wilson and Gallette can man those. The other LBers on our team (Chamberlain, Herring, Humber)... not sure how they necessarily fit. I think Casillas can be a rush LBer for us. I can remember plays where he blitzes and just blows up whoever gets in his way. Love the fire that man brings when he rushes the QB!

Galette should only be re-signed to provide depth at OLB, and additional pass rushing on some more exotic blitz packages, but not as a starting OLB opposite to Wilson.

Chamberlain played safety in college and entered his draft as a safety, so he could probably provide depth at the ILB positions with his coverage skills. Herring also has above average coverage skills and that is saying something on this LB corps that the Saints have at the moment - and additionally Herring is a really good ST player. Casillas might not get re-signed, but it all depends on if Ryan finds him useful, because I doubt there'll be much competition over his signature on the open market.

Originally Posted by pherein

I knock Harper sometimes, but hes good at some things.
Im just not seeing how he fits at all in a 3-4. He is not good at pass coverage,
and with UFA's like Patrick Chung on the market that will cost way less, and have 3-4 experience… I see his demise as iminiate.

Whether or not the defensive base scheme is a 4-3 or a 3-4 doesn't really affect the safety play, what matters is the type of coverage system they are going to implement on the backfield. I would think that they'd return to a more traditional SS/FS division of labor between the two safeties, where the SS would be brought up in run support quite often. If this is the case going forward, Harper would be playing in a type of a role in which he really had a lot of success under GW, and he would therefore be more deserving of his salary, while not still fully deserving of it.

pherein · 02-10-2013, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by FinSaint

Whether or not the defensive base scheme is a 4-3 or a 3-4 doesn't really affect the safety play, what matters is the type of coverage system they are going to implement on the backfield. I would think that they'd return to a more traditional SS/FS division of labor between the two safeties, where the SS would be brought up in run support quite often. If this is the case going forward, Harper would be playing in a type of a role in which he really had a lot of success under GW, and he would therefore be more deserving of his salary, while not still fully deserving of it.

Yeah, thats a given, but traditional 3-4 relies on the LB's to blitz and/or contain most of the run game or gaps, and for the DS to cover the pass. Not to cover the run or blitz. This makes Harper a specialty player, because he is not good at pass coverage, and Im not seeing how loomis can afford a way over priced specailty player in this CAP year. Even if Harper is a great tackler with mediocure coverage, I dont think it matters. Kenny Phillips, Jairus Byrd, or chung we can afford, maybe. I dont think it matters if he fits in or not. Just how I see it.

I say this also thinking that we have no pure 340 lbs NT, and we need to find one to ancher the ends of a 3-4. Thats much more important than keeping Harper. I would be suprised if R&R just tries guys out at the NT spot, like ellis or Aklem. I mean if NT falls apart so do all the gaps. NT some consider to be most phtsically demaning in football, so we will also need a backup.
Ideally 3–4 DEs should weigh 285–300 pounds and be able to beat double teams by getting a push. We might have guys that can do that, but I dont see a NT on our roster right now.

You can draft one and risk he will be any good his 1st season, but thats seems irresponsible. I see them landing a contract with a UFA, and that cost money, and another reason why I dont think Harper makes the roster. His position on the field is not that important right now, compared to others we really need filled.

Like 1 or 2 of these NT guys
Brace, Ron -NE -6-3 -330 -25
Jean Francois, Ricky -SF -6-3 -295 -25
Pryor, Myron NE -6-1 -310 -26
Sopoaga, Isaac SF -6-2 -330 -31
Franklin, Aubrayo SD -6-1 -317 -32
Kemoeatu, Ma'ake BLT -6-5 -364 -33
Warren, Ty DEN -6-5 -300 -31
Hampton, Casey PIT -6-1 -325 -35

FinSaint · 02-11-2013, 04:22 AM

They definitely need a mountain of a NT on their roster to compliment Bunkley, and I think signing Knighton from JAX and drafting a rookie NT would be the ideal solution as they'd have nice depth for rotation and variety of types.

Danno · 02-11-2013, 12:11 PM

Just based on rough estimates (2013 cap minus signing bonus accelleration only) here's a snapshot of some cap savings if the player is cut

Player Pos. Cap Figure (Cap savings if cut)
Will Smith DE 666 14,541,666 (Cap savings if cut – 7.72 million )
Jonathan Vilma LB 8,682,500 (Cap savings if cut – 6 million )
Roman Harper S 7,100,000 (Cap savings if cut – 3.6 million )
Jabari Greer CB 5,425,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.4 million )
David Hawthorne LB 4,760,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.7 million )
Brodrick Bunkley DT 000 4,700,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.1 million )
Malcolm Jenkins S 000 4,032,000 (Cap savings if cut – 4 million )
Patrick Robinson CB 2,246,833 (Cap savings if cut – 1.3 million )
David Thomas TE 2,200,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.72 million )
Will Herring LB 1,933,333 (Cap savings if cut – 1.6 million )
Chris Chamberlain LB 1,450,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.1 million )

lee909 · 02-11-2013, 12:15 PM

Unless we can trade Harper if keep him.Its not enough of a saving to cut him unless there is no other options IMO.

Jamessr · 02-11-2013, 12:37 PM

Why do we have overpaid non performers?

TheOak · 02-11-2013, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

How is will smith still being paid like an elite DE? I mean 14 mil is absurd

Thanks for the memories but vilma, shanle, ellis and will smith have to be released

That is by design. So you can come back at them in the latter part of their contract... Look them in the face... hold up a piece of paper with their cap figure, hold up a piece of paper with their performance... and say

Really Now?!?! Seriously?!?! How bad do you want to stay a Saint?

TheOak · 02-11-2013, 12:46 PM

I can see it now... Sean Payton "I am proposing a trade"... other guy "Who ya got?" Payton "These three guys were all part of a record setting 2012 defense".

Other guy...

02-10-2013, 05:32 PM	#11
jjasso007 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 187	Re: 2013 Player Salaries Originally Posted by pherein I know , its sad Harper would ever make more than Greer. Im pretty sure Vilma ( not 3-4) , Harper (definitely not 3-4 0r 4-3 ), and Smith (not 3-4 ) are gone without a shot of restructuring. I dont believe loomis will even consider the possibility. Its nothing personal, just CAP control, and he can get guys cheaper, and have the same performance of Smith and Harper, and save a few million for FA. Vilma's position was was filled while he was out. We have 8 LB's, 9 if you count Johnson. I just dont see a restructure in his future. Oh and Shantle is gone to. Whether or not Harper is cut, due to his large contract, remains to be seen. But didn't Rafeal Bush play well at SS for us this season when he was thrown in there? As for our LB situation, I think Lofton and Hawthorne will be find at MLB. As for OLB, Wilson and Gallette can man those. The other LBers on our team (Chamberlain, Herring, Humber)... not sure how they necessarily fit. I think Casillas can be a rush LBer for us. I can remember plays where he blitzes and just blows up whoever gets in his way. Love the fire that man brings when he rushes the QB!

02-10-2013, 07:11 PM	#12
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2013 Player Salaries Originally Posted by jjasso007 Whether or not Harper is cut, due to his large contract, remains to be seen. But didn't Rafeal Bush play well at SS for us this season when he was thrown in there? As for our LB situation, I think Lofton and Hawthorne will be find at MLB. As for OLB, Wilson and Gallette can man those. The other LBers on our team (Chamberlain, Herring, Humber)... not sure how they necessarily fit. I think Casillas can be a rush LBer for us. I can remember plays where he blitzes and just blows up whoever gets in his way. Love the fire that man brings when he rushes the QB! Bush did a pretty good job. Im no expert, but he looked ok. Especially in the SF and Bucks games. I knock Harper sometimes, but hes good at some things. Im just not seeing how he fits at all in a 3-4. He is not good at pass coverage, and with UFA's like Patrick Chung on the market that will cost way less, and have 3-4 experience… I see his demise as iminiate. Lofton and Hawthorne are pretty solid, and OLB, Wilson and Gallette could really work. I like Herring, he is really good in pass coverage and pulls off some wicked stops. I think he fits in a 3-4, and is cheap. Casillas is a pretty tough kid, love his 100%, all out additude. Im sure he will survive. Bring on Romeus !!!! What a killer name for a DE, to bad his mom named him greg.
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 02-10-2013 at 07:21 PM..

02-10-2013, 08:24 PM	#13
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: 2013 Player Salaries Originally Posted by jjasso007 As for our LB situation, I think Lofton and Hawthorne will be find at MLB. As for OLB, Wilson and Gallette can man those. The other LBers on our team (Chamberlain, Herring, Humber)... not sure how they necessarily fit. I think Casillas can be a rush LBer for us. I can remember plays where he blitzes and just blows up whoever gets in his way. Love the fire that man brings when he rushes the QB! Galette should only be re-signed to provide depth at OLB, and additional pass rushing on some more exotic blitz packages, but not as a starting OLB opposite to Wilson. Chamberlain played safety in college and entered his draft as a safety, so he could probably provide depth at the ILB positions with his coverage skills. Herring also has above average coverage skills and that is saying something on this LB corps that the Saints have at the moment - and additionally Herring is a really good ST player. Casillas might not get re-signed, but it all depends on if Ryan finds him useful, because I doubt there'll be much competition over his signature on the open market. Originally Posted by pherein I knock Harper sometimes, but hes good at some things. Im just not seeing how he fits at all in a 3-4. He is not good at pass coverage, and with UFA's like Patrick Chung on the market that will cost way less, and have 3-4 experience… I see his demise as iminiate. Whether or not the defensive base scheme is a 4-3 or a 3-4 doesn't really affect the safety play, what matters is the type of coverage system they are going to implement on the backfield. I would think that they'd return to a more traditional SS/FS division of labor between the two safeties, where the SS would be brought up in run support quite often. If this is the case going forward, Harper would be playing in a type of a role in which he really had a lot of success under GW, and he would therefore be more deserving of his salary, while not still fully deserving of it.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

02-10-2013, 10:53 PM	#14
pherein failclownHunter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: N.O. and V.A. Posts: 2,260 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2013 Player Salaries Originally Posted by FinSaint Whether or not the defensive base scheme is a 4-3 or a 3-4 doesn't really affect the safety play, what matters is the type of coverage system they are going to implement on the backfield. I would think that they'd return to a more traditional SS/FS division of labor between the two safeties, where the SS would be brought up in run support quite often. If this is the case going forward, Harper would be playing in a type of a role in which he really had a lot of success under GW, and he would therefore be more deserving of his salary, while not still fully deserving of it. Yeah, thats a given, but traditional 3-4 relies on the LB's to blitz and/or contain most of the run game or gaps, and for the DS to cover the pass. Not to cover the run or blitz. This makes Harper a specialty player, because he is not good at pass coverage, and Im not seeing how loomis can afford a way over priced specailty player in this CAP year. Even if Harper is a great tackler with mediocure coverage, I dont think it matters. Kenny Phillips, Jairus Byrd, or chung we can afford, maybe. I dont think it matters if he fits in or not. Just how I see it. I say this also thinking that we have no pure 340 lbs NT, and we need to find one to ancher the ends of a 3-4. Thats much more important than keeping Harper. I would be suprised if R&R just tries guys out at the NT spot, like ellis or Aklem. I mean if NT falls apart so do all the gaps. NT some consider to be most phtsically demaning in football, so we will also need a backup. Ideally 3–4 DEs should weigh 285–300 pounds and be able to beat double teams by getting a push. We might have guys that can do that, but I dont see a NT on our roster right now. You can draft one and risk he will be any good his 1st season, but thats seems irresponsible. I see them landing a contract with a UFA, and that cost money, and another reason why I dont think Harper makes the roster. His position on the field is not that important right now, compared to others we really need filled. Like 1 or 2 of these NT guys Brace, Ron -NE -6-3 -330 -25 Jean Francois, Ricky -SF -6-3 -295 -25 Pryor, Myron NE -6-1 -310 -26 Sopoaga, Isaac SF -6-2 -330 -31 Franklin, Aubrayo SD -6-1 -317 -32 Kemoeatu, Ma'ake BLT -6-5 -364 -33 Warren, Ty DEN -6-5 -300 -31 Hampton, Casey PIT -6-1 -325 -35
	Saints proved that pigs could fly in 2009. Now its time for another miracle SuperBowl and go where no pig has gone before. Last edited by pherein; 02-10-2013 at 11:21 PM..

02-11-2013, 04:22 AM	#15
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: 2013 Player Salaries They definitely need a mountain of a NT on their roster to compliment Bunkley, and I think signing Knighton from JAX and drafting a rookie NT would be the ideal solution as they'd have nice depth for rotation and variety of types. pherein likes this.

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02-11-2013, 12:11 PM	#16
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Re: 2013 Player Salaries Just based on rough estimates (2013 cap minus signing bonus accelleration only) here's a snapshot of some cap savings if the player is cut Player Pos. Cap Figure (Cap savings if cut) Will Smith DE 666 14,541,666 (Cap savings if cut – 7.72 million ) Jonathan Vilma LB 8,682,500 (Cap savings if cut – 6 million ) Roman Harper S 7,100,000 (Cap savings if cut – 3.6 million ) Jabari Greer CB 5,425,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.4 million ) David Hawthorne LB 4,760,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.7 million ) Brodrick Bunkley DT 000 4,700,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.1 million ) Malcolm Jenkins S 000 4,032,000 (Cap savings if cut – 4 million ) Patrick Robinson CB 2,246,833 (Cap savings if cut – 1.3 million ) David Thomas TE 2,200,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.72 million ) Will Herring LB 1,933,333 (Cap savings if cut – 1.6 million ) Chris Chamberlain LB 1,450,000 (Cap savings if cut – 1.1 million ) pherein, Jamessr and FinSaint like this.

02-11-2013, 12:15 PM	#17
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,809 Blog Entries: 1	Unless we can trade Harper if keep him.Its not enough of a saving to cut him unless there is no other options IMO.

02-11-2013, 12:37 PM	#18
Jamessr 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 1,583	Re: 2013 Player Salaries Why do we have overpaid non performers?

02-11-2013, 12:44 PM	#19
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: 2013 Player Salaries Originally Posted by dizzle88 How is will smith still being paid like an elite DE? I mean 14 mil is absurd Thanks for the memories but vilma, shanle, ellis and will smith have to be released That is by design. So you can come back at them in the latter part of their contract... Look them in the face... hold up a piece of paper with their cap figure, hold up a piece of paper with their performance... and say Really Now?!?! Seriously?!?! How bad do you want to stay a Saint?

02-11-2013, 12:46 PM	#20
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: 2013 Player Salaries I can see it now... Sean Payton "I am proposing a trade"... other guy "Who ya got?" Payton "These three guys were all part of a record setting 2012 defense". Other guy...

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