Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this)

saintz08 · 10-01-2004, 02:17 PM

08 has an agenda Whodat.

My agenda is too put up the numbers and let them tell a story .

WhoDat · 10-01-2004, 02:19 PM

Personal attacks aren\'t OK on this board? Comments about people that have nothing to do with football aren\'t allowed? Oh, I was confused. There seems to be a pattern and practice that suggests otherwise. I was simply taking my que from one moderator who acted in that fashion and others who did nothing about it.

Your statement above further support everything I\'ve been saying. You can only see things YOUR way. You said that I support 08\'s misrepresentations and \"spin\" to just about any degree so long as it is a means to an end. I have NEVER suggested that. That\'s YOUR argument.

I have never even suggested that 08 misrepresents things. 08 looks at the same set of facts that you and I do, he simply arrives at his conclusions differently. You suggest that it is some hateful agenda. I do not.

Herein lies the basic problem, which you still cannot dispute. I may not agree with 08\'s rationale or interpretation all the time, but he should be able to make his opinions known. Simply b/c his conclusions are different than mine, or because his rationale is disparate does not mean he is malicious. You consistently allege that his arrival at a different conclusion than you can ONLY be explained by some hateful agenda. That is simply myopic and I dare say ignorant. Further, I would go so far as to bet that you make your decision about what 08 has to say before you read the first word. You see the name and avitar and your fingers start typing agenda before you\'ve read a single word.

More importantly, is that while you try to deflect this attack on 08, you really intend to make the same allegations about me, BMG, Gator, and others. You simply won\'t say it b/c that would be a direct personal attack, as compared to the indirect one you\'re making now. There is no question that you have lumped me in with 08 and suggested that I misrepresent facts, tell lies, spin comments, etc. all b/c I believe this will somehow cause the Saints to dump Brooks and fulfill my secret mission. That\'s far more likely that two people looking at the same set of indecisive facts and reasonable disagreeing in their meaning.

Go ahead and move this to the Everything Else section. It doesn\'t change the fact that you continue to do things on this board every day that others are not allowed to do. The immunity of that moderator title won\'t last forever. These Mods are intelligent people and eventually they\'ll tire of your attacks too.

saintfan · 10-01-2004, 03:05 PM

Herein lies the basic problem, which you still cannot dispute. I may not agree with 08\'s rationale or interpretation all the time, but he should be able to make his opinions known.

He can, and he does. And when I can poke holes in it I do so. Same thing YOU do with ANYone who disagrees with you. Where\'s the difference? There isn\'t any. Lately you\'ve been on some sort of rampage about me poking holes in certain things you say. You have a choice. You can (a) deal with it or (b) leave. Either way I don\'t care. Makes exactly zero difference to me...but I can and will voice my differences with you at any time I choose. This is America Jack. I\'m real sorry...no, wait...I\'m not sorry at all. You can get over it or not.

Bottom line is I\'m not doing anything to you that Gator hasn\'t done to Billy...that 08 hasn\'t done to me, etc, etc. To deny that as a fact is to lie. Finally...if you have a personal comment about me take it to the everything else board where it belongs or send me a private msg.

Go ahead and move this to the Everything Else section

Very much in tune with the other hot head on the board these days you assume too much. I haven\'t moved or deleted a thing...yet.

JOESAM2002 · 10-01-2004, 05:27 PM

Ok boys, I\'ve been quiet as long as I can. I AM THE ONE WHO MOVED THE THREAD! IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT,I SUGGEST YOU TAKE IT UP WITH ME. Now, can\'t you guys take this crap to the Everything else board? Or would you like me to move it too?

WhoDat · 10-01-2004, 07:22 PM

Joe - move it if you must. I have no problem with that - I did not intend to suggest that I did. I don\'t care where this discussion takes place, the basic tenets remain the same.

And when I can poke holes in it I do so. Same thing YOU do with ANYone who disagrees with you. Where\'s the difference? There isn\'t any.

Ah, but there is a BIG difference, and it\'s one that it seems only you cannot distinguish. When you recently suggested Brooks was being hurt by other members of this team, how did I respond? With sarcasm - yes - but I also showed that he has a RB that was 4th best in the league last year, 2 WRs in the top 20 this season, and a line that hasn\'t allowed a lot of sacks. See Saintfan, those are called \"football arguments.\" On the other hand, when 08 posted statistics about AB and then used them to make some claim about AB (again football related), what did you do? Did you show contrary facts? Did you question the logic by which he converted facts into opinions? No - you simply said that he had an agenda. Your comment was not about WRs, RBs, Lines, QBs... it was about 08. THAT is the DIFFERENCE.

Lately you\'ve been on some sort of rampage about me poking holes in certain things you say.

You don\'t poke holes in what I say, you attempt to poke holes in my character by questioning my motives. As I said in the Everything Else section, saying that I make statements b/c I have an agenda at very least implies that I do thing willfully to hurt others. That calls into question my integrity, honesty, intelligence, and/or loyalty. That is an attack on character. You take attacks on Brooks as personal attacks, but wonder how we can be upset when you attack us directly... You say, \"I\'m not attacking you, I\'m saying that you\'re being dishonest and intentionally skewing things b/c you have a character flaw.\" Well, I\'m not calling you a liar, but I\'m pretty sure that you\'re not telling the truth.

You have a choice. You can (a) deal with it or (b) leave. Either way I don\'t care. Makes exactly zero difference to me...

You asked me in the other thread how your being a mod matters in all this. This is exactly how is matters. Statements like this. I can bow down to your double standard or I can leave. I can allow you to make statements about me personally, with no recourse, or I can leave. I don\'t think that is the type of conduct that the other Mods expect of a person charged with \"protecting\" the members of this board and \"fostering\" an open environment.

Bottom line is I\'m not doing anything to you that Gator hasn\'t done to Billy...that 08 hasn\'t done to me, etc, etc. To deny that as a fact is to lie.

You\'re right, we\'ve all taken shots at one another in the past, but you\'re the only one still doing it. You do it consistently. Does it strike you as odd at all that this is such a big hub-bub on this board? Me questioning your motives? I\'m making statements about you personally, and that is causing a problem here. Yet you get to \"expose\" my \"agenda\" on a daily basis and it is acceptible.

To JOE, HALO, and the other Mods - I do honestly apologize for the disruption and inconvenience. I understand that this can be frustration. This is the frustration that 08, Gator, BMG, myself, and others who generally disagree with Saintfan\'s take on the world have to deal with on a daily basis. I enjoy this board very much and want it to succeed. I am remorseful that things have to come to this. But I challenge you to prove my statements wrong. Provide some proof to me that a few of us are just \"over-sensitive\" and I\'ll gladly stop it. I think that if you truly look, you\'ll see the board prospered most not when Gator was gone, or Billy, but those few months a while back when Saintfan wasn\'t around. No one attacked anyone else. There was general harmony. I\'m not asking to have the man banned, I just want his posting habbits to be held to the same standard as all the rest of us. That is all.

[Edited on 1/10/2004 by WhoDat]

saintz08 · 10-01-2004, 07:42 PM

I\'d like to hear ALL the mods take on these issues. (Joe, 08, Pak)

My opinion is :

We have all been cyber buddies for too damn long to be hammering at you . Does that mean as a moderator I allow a little more leash for the likes of WhoDat , Gator , Saintfan and Billy ? YES

I will assume that you guys have been here long enough to know that you can PM any moderator if you are feeling as though you are being attacked .

Do we really want this to be some sanitized version of a Saints forum ??? I have seen these sanitized forums before and they aint much to look at .

JOESAM2002 · 10-02-2004, 03:36 AM

All I want is for all you guys to get along. It ain\'t hard. You all have different ideas of different things but thats not to say that one is right and one is wrong. It\'s an opinion, nothing more and nothing less. We all know what an opinion is worth. It\'s not like the Saints are going to change the team on anything we say. We can say what we\'d like to see, but it\'s not going to change anything. To me this board is to discuss the New Orleans Saints and how we as fans can support them. So if you will, cool your jets and get your Shhhhhhhhhhhhhheite together. Quit this mess and get back to the program. I love you all but you\'re beginning to piss me off! :smile_argue:

[Edited on 2/10/2004 by JOESAM2002]

saintfan · 10-02-2004, 09:46 AM

Whodat, I will address your concerns with me in the EVERYTHING ELSE BOARD WHERE THIS DISCUSSION BEONGS.

Halo · 10-02-2004, 10:36 AM

I locked the thread.

10-01-2004, 02:17 PM	#21
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) 08 has an agenda Whodat. My agenda is too put up the numbers and let them tell a story .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

10-01-2004, 02:19 PM	#22
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) Personal attacks aren\'t OK on this board? Comments about people that have nothing to do with football aren\'t allowed? Oh, I was confused. There seems to be a pattern and practice that suggests otherwise. I was simply taking my que from one moderator who acted in that fashion and others who did nothing about it. Your statement above further support everything I\'ve been saying. You can only see things YOUR way. You said that I support 08\'s misrepresentations and \"spin\" to just about any degree so long as it is a means to an end. I have NEVER suggested that. That\'s YOUR argument. I have never even suggested that 08 misrepresents things. 08 looks at the same set of facts that you and I do, he simply arrives at his conclusions differently. You suggest that it is some hateful agenda. I do not. Herein lies the basic problem, which you still cannot dispute. I may not agree with 08\'s rationale or interpretation all the time, but he should be able to make his opinions known. Simply b/c his conclusions are different than mine, or because his rationale is disparate does not mean he is malicious. You consistently allege that his arrival at a different conclusion than you can ONLY be explained by some hateful agenda. That is simply myopic and I dare say ignorant. Further, I would go so far as to bet that you make your decision about what 08 has to say before you read the first word. You see the name and avitar and your fingers start typing agenda before you\'ve read a single word. More importantly, is that while you try to deflect this attack on 08, you really intend to make the same allegations about me, BMG, Gator, and others. You simply won\'t say it b/c that would be a direct personal attack, as compared to the indirect one you\'re making now. There is no question that you have lumped me in with 08 and suggested that I misrepresent facts, tell lies, spin comments, etc. all b/c I believe this will somehow cause the Saints to dump Brooks and fulfill my secret mission. That\'s far more likely that two people looking at the same set of indecisive facts and reasonable disagreeing in their meaning. Go ahead and move this to the Everything Else section. It doesn\'t change the fact that you continue to do things on this board every day that others are not allowed to do. The immunity of that moderator title won\'t last forever. These Mods are intelligent people and eventually they\'ll tire of your attacks too.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

10-01-2004, 03:05 PM	#23
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) Herein lies the basic problem, which you still cannot dispute. I may not agree with 08\'s rationale or interpretation all the time, but he should be able to make his opinions known. He can, and he does. And when I can poke holes in it I do so. Same thing YOU do with ANYone who disagrees with you. Where\'s the difference? There isn\'t any. Lately you\'ve been on some sort of rampage about me poking holes in certain things you say. You have a choice. You can (a) deal with it or (b) leave. Either way I don\'t care. Makes exactly zero difference to me...but I can and will voice my differences with you at any time I choose. This is America Jack. I\'m real sorry...no, wait...I\'m not sorry at all. You can get over it or not. Bottom line is I\'m not doing anything to you that Gator hasn\'t done to Billy...that 08 hasn\'t done to me, etc, etc. To deny that as a fact is to lie. Finally...if you have a personal comment about me take it to the everything else board where it belongs or send me a private msg. Go ahead and move this to the Everything Else section Very much in tune with the other hot head on the board these days you assume too much. I haven\'t moved or deleted a thing...yet.
	C'mon Man...

10-01-2004, 05:27 PM	#24
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) Ok boys, I\'ve been quiet as long as I can. I AM THE ONE WHO MOVED THE THREAD! IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT,I SUGGEST YOU TAKE IT UP WITH ME. Now, can\'t you guys take this crap to the Everything else board? Or would you like me to move it too?

10-01-2004, 07:22 PM	#25
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) Joe - move it if you must. I have no problem with that - I did not intend to suggest that I did. I don\'t care where this discussion takes place, the basic tenets remain the same. And when I can poke holes in it I do so. Same thing YOU do with ANYone who disagrees with you. Where\'s the difference? There isn\'t any. Ah, but there is a BIG difference, and it\'s one that it seems only you cannot distinguish. When you recently suggested Brooks was being hurt by other members of this team, how did I respond? With sarcasm - yes - but I also showed that he has a RB that was 4th best in the league last year, 2 WRs in the top 20 this season, and a line that hasn\'t allowed a lot of sacks. See Saintfan, those are called \"football arguments.\" On the other hand, when 08 posted statistics about AB and then used them to make some claim about AB (again football related), what did you do? Did you show contrary facts? Did you question the logic by which he converted facts into opinions? No - you simply said that he had an agenda. Your comment was not about WRs, RBs, Lines, QBs... it was about 08. THAT is the DIFFERENCE. Lately you\'ve been on some sort of rampage about me poking holes in certain things you say. You don\'t poke holes in what I say, you attempt to poke holes in my character by questioning my motives. As I said in the Everything Else section, saying that I make statements b/c I have an agenda at very least implies that I do thing willfully to hurt others. That calls into question my integrity, honesty, intelligence, and/or loyalty. That is an attack on character. You take attacks on Brooks as personal attacks, but wonder how we can be upset when you attack us directly... You say, \"I\'m not attacking you, I\'m saying that you\'re being dishonest and intentionally skewing things b/c you have a character flaw.\" Well, I\'m not calling you a liar, but I\'m pretty sure that you\'re not telling the truth. You have a choice. You can (a) deal with it or (b) leave. Either way I don\'t care. Makes exactly zero difference to me... You asked me in the other thread how your being a mod matters in all this. This is exactly how is matters. Statements like this. I can bow down to your double standard or I can leave. I can allow you to make statements about me personally, with no recourse, or I can leave. I don\'t think that is the type of conduct that the other Mods expect of a person charged with \"protecting\" the members of this board and \"fostering\" an open environment. Bottom line is I\'m not doing anything to you that Gator hasn\'t done to Billy...that 08 hasn\'t done to me, etc, etc. To deny that as a fact is to lie. You\'re right, we\'ve all taken shots at one another in the past, but you\'re the only one still doing it. You do it consistently. Does it strike you as odd at all that this is such a big hub-bub on this board? Me questioning your motives? I\'m making statements about you personally, and that is causing a problem here. Yet you get to \"expose\" my \"agenda\" on a daily basis and it is acceptible. To JOE, HALO, and the other Mods - I do honestly apologize for the disruption and inconvenience. I understand that this can be frustration. This is the frustration that 08, Gator, BMG, myself, and others who generally disagree with Saintfan\'s take on the world have to deal with on a daily basis. I enjoy this board very much and want it to succeed. I am remorseful that things have to come to this. But I challenge you to prove my statements wrong. Provide some proof to me that a few of us are just \"over-sensitive\" and I\'ll gladly stop it. I think that if you truly look, you\'ll see the board prospered most not when Gator was gone, or Billy, but those few months a while back when Saintfan wasn\'t around. No one attacked anyone else. There was general harmony. I\'m not asking to have the man banned, I just want his posting habbits to be held to the same standard as all the rest of us. That is all. [Edited on 1/10/2004 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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10-01-2004, 07:42 PM	#26
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) I\'d like to hear ALL the mods take on these issues. (Joe, 08, Pak) My opinion is : We have all been cyber buddies for too damn long to be hammering at you . Does that mean as a moderator I allow a little more leash for the likes of WhoDat , Gator , Saintfan and Billy ? YES I will assume that you guys have been here long enough to know that you can PM any moderator if you are feeling as though you are being attacked . Do we really want this to be some sanitized version of a Saints forum ??? I have seen these sanitized forums before and they aint much to look at .
saintz08 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,020

10-02-2004, 03:36 AM	#27
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) All I want is for all you guys to get along. It ain\'t hard. You all have different ideas of different things but thats not to say that one is right and one is wrong. It\'s an opinion, nothing more and nothing less. We all know what an opinion is worth. It\'s not like the Saints are going to change the team on anything we say. We can say what we\'d like to see, but it\'s not going to change anything. To me this board is to discuss the New Orleans Saints and how we as fans can support them. So if you will, cool your jets and get your Shhhhhhhhhhhhhheite together. Quit this mess and get back to the program. I love you all but you\'re beginning to piss me off! :smile_argue: [Edited on 2/10/2004 by JOESAM2002]
	Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!! "Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.

10-02-2004, 09:46 AM	#28
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) Whodat, I will address your concerns with me in the EVERYTHING ELSE BOARD WHERE THIS DISCUSSION BEONGS.

10-02-2004, 10:36 AM	#29
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,607 Blog Entries: 45	Best 4th Quarter QB's (08/BMG won't like this) I locked the thread.