Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?

Jack Vegas · 09-16-2013, 11:06 PM

I went back and watched this game.

First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run.

TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play.

The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing.

Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it.

I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason.

The Dude · 09-17-2013, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

I went back and watched this game.

First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run.

TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play.

The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing.

Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it.

I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason.

I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. Grubs was elite but is a far cry from Nicks, and Evans is hurt and god knows how bad or how long it will linger. And its not a sudden thing. They have been slowly regressing as we have let go of players. Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone, only Evans remains from the origianal line that was so good. You dont just replace a player a year and expect to not have a drop off. A good line can take a 2 or 3 seasons to gel with all the same players. Take away the coach who made it all happen and thats when you start having problems. Its been coming for years. Looks like Kromer was able to keep it together and now that he is gone it is starting to show. Sorry but I dont see them improving much over the course of the season.

Jack Vegas · 09-17-2013, 03:08 AM

[quote=The Dude;528796]I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. /QUOTE]

Brian de la Puente signs RFA tender with Saints | ProFootballTalk

Pro Football Focus graded the 27-year-old de la Puente second among centers in 2012. According to PFF, de la Puente surrendered just two sacks in 1,134 snaps.

In 2012 BDP graded out as PFF's seventh best run blocking center and the 6th best pass blocking center among centers who played atleast 60% of their teams snaps).

As for your other points, Nicks is now a chronic injury case, while Grubbs has generally been considered among the top 2 or 3 left guards in the game most of his career. Bushrod was a decent run blocker who would be considered a liability if Brees hadn't been so adept at stepping up in the pocket and avoiding pressure all these years. Brown is about his equal overall. Stinchcomb was a solid guy in his prime but by the end of his career was terrible. Strief was definitely no downgrade from that.

The names may have changed but not much has been lost in terms of overall talent. You also have to keep in mind that offensive line play is one of those things that evolves over the course of the season. We'll know more by week 6 or so, but based on their play in the first two games I don't see any big reason to worry.

Originally Posted by Crusader

I don't see there bein a problem with any certain player. Its more like the group hasn't really developed a chemistry yet.

To me this is the issue more than anything. That and Evans' back injury.

Best example I can think of is 2003, that line was awful early on in the season but by week 5 or 6 they had got their stuff together and ended up being one of the better groups in football and Deuce ran for like a bajillion yards behind that line. Things will come together, just gotta be patient.

TheOak · 09-18-2013, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. Grubs was elite but is a far cry from Nicks, and Evans is hurt and god knows how bad or how long it will linger. And its not a sudden thing. They have been slowly regressing as we have let go of players. Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone, only Evans remains from the origianal line that was so good. You dont just replace a player a year and expect to not have a drop off. A good line can take a 2 or 3 seasons to gel with all the same players. Take away the coach who made it all happen and thats when you start having problems. Its been coming for years. Looks like Kromer was able to keep it together and now that he is gone it is starting to show. Sorry but I dont see them improving much over the course of the season.

"Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone".... ?

Brown played Sunday for the Saints, and plays this Sunday for the Saints.

aquaboogie · 09-18-2013, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

"Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone".... ?

Brown played Sunday for the Saints, and plays this Sunday for the Saints.

Jammal Brown. Traded to Redskins

The Dude · 09-19-2013, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

"Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone".... ?

Brown played Sunday for the Saints, and plays this Sunday for the Saints.

Jamal Brown was on the field for us? Wow I figured this would be big news. Did we trade Ingram to get him back or something? Sheesh. Its relevant because since then we have had 3 different players at that position in the past 4 years. Not really a position you want to be swapping players around on. Granted there wasnt the drop off you would expect, but that could be due to Kromer than the players.

SaintsBro · 09-17-2013, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

I went back and watched this game.

TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play.

The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing.

Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it.

Thank you for pointing this out...so many on this board seem to be in such a ridiculous hurry to declare Brees is finished and the O-line a bust...everything for them has to fit that narrative about the contract so that's all they see....it was not raining at the start of the game, but for most of that hour while they were in the lightning delay, and the network switched to the Lions/Cardinals on TV, people seem to forget that the field in Tampa was just sitting there getting rained on...there's no question in my mind, the "rough day at the office" for Brees and the line, started AFTER the rain delay...before it they were marching at will down the field....almost like two different games.

09-16-2013, 11:06 PM	#1
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? I went back and watched this game. First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run. TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play. The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing. Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it. I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason. AlaskaSaints likes this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

09-17-2013, 12:52 AM	#2
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? Originally Posted by Jack Vegas I went back and watched this game. First offensive drive, the line was on point except for one play. Brees had nice big pockets to throw from. Sproles had a nice little 6-yard run, Ingram had an 8-yard run. TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play. The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing. Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it. I have 100% faith the o-line will pull it together. We have three players in Grubbs, Evans and de la Puente who are considered elite at their positions, Strief is average but dependable and Brown who is just really getting his feet wet as a starter. This is a solid group of veteran players with a ton of success and none of them are even close to being over the hill. They're not suddenly just going to stink for no reason. I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. Grubs was elite but is a far cry from Nicks, and Evans is hurt and god knows how bad or how long it will linger. And its not a sudden thing. They have been slowly regressing as we have let go of players. Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone, only Evans remains from the origianal line that was so good. You dont just replace a player a year and expect to not have a drop off. A good line can take a 2 or 3 seasons to gel with all the same players. Take away the coach who made it all happen and thats when you start having problems. Its been coming for years. Looks like Kromer was able to keep it together and now that he is gone it is starting to show. Sorry but I dont see them improving much over the course of the season.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065

09-17-2013, 03:08 AM	#3
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? [quote=The Dude;528796]I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. /QUOTE] Brian de la Puente signs RFA tender with Saints \| ProFootballTalk Pro Football Focus graded the 27-year-old de la Puente second among centers in 2012. According to PFF, de la Puente surrendered just two sacks in 1,134 snaps. In 2012 BDP graded out as PFF's seventh best run blocking center and the 6th best pass blocking center among centers who played atleast 60% of their teams snaps). As for your other points, Nicks is now a chronic injury case, while Grubbs has generally been considered among the top 2 or 3 left guards in the game most of his career. Bushrod was a decent run blocker who would be considered a liability if Brees hadn't been so adept at stepping up in the pocket and avoiding pressure all these years. Brown is about his equal overall. Stinchcomb was a solid guy in his prime but by the end of his career was terrible. Strief was definitely no downgrade from that. The names may have changed but not much has been lost in terms of overall talent. You also have to keep in mind that offensive line play is one of those things that evolves over the course of the season. We'll know more by week 6 or so, but based on their play in the first two games I don't see any big reason to worry. Originally Posted by Crusader I don't see there bein a problem with any certain player. Its more like the group hasn't really developed a chemistry yet. To me this is the issue more than anything. That and Evans' back injury. Best example I can think of is 2003, that line was awful early on in the season but by week 5 or 6 they had got their stuff together and ended up being one of the better groups in football and Deuce ran for like a bajillion yards behind that line. Things will come together, just gotta be patient.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

09-18-2013, 07:37 PM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,055	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? Originally Posted by The Dude I dont know who would consider de la Puente elite. Grubs was elite but is a far cry from Nicks, and Evans is hurt and god knows how bad or how long it will linger. And its not a sudden thing. They have been slowly regressing as we have let go of players. Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone, only Evans remains from the origianal line that was so good. You dont just replace a player a year and expect to not have a drop off. A good line can take a 2 or 3 seasons to gel with all the same players. Take away the coach who made it all happen and thats when you start having problems. Its been coming for years. Looks like Kromer was able to keep it together and now that he is gone it is starting to show. Sorry but I dont see them improving much over the course of the season. "Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone".... ? Brown played Sunday for the Saints, and plays this Sunday for the Saints.

09-18-2013, 08:30 PM	#5
aquaboogie 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 196	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? Originally Posted by TheOak "Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone".... ? Brown played Sunday for the Saints, and plays this Sunday for the Saints. Jammal Brown. Traded to Redskins TheOak likes this.
aquaboogie 100th Post Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 196

09-19-2013, 12:37 AM	#6
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? Originally Posted by TheOak "Brown, Nicks, Bushrod are all gone".... ? Brown played Sunday for the Saints, and plays this Sunday for the Saints. Jamal Brown was on the field for us? Wow I figured this would be big news. Did we trade Ingram to get him back or something? Sheesh. Its relevant because since then we have had 3 different players at that position in the past 4 years. Not really a position you want to be swapping players around on. Granted there wasnt the drop off you would expect, but that could be due to Kromer than the players.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065	Last edited by The Dude; 09-19-2013 at 12:41 AM..

09-17-2013, 06:40 AM	#7
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability? Originally Posted by Jack Vegas I went back and watched this game. TB did catch us in a run blitz once, and sacked Brees once when Grubbs pulled for some reason and left a wide open hole. That had to have been a busted play. The line struggled a bit more after the rain delay but I think some of that may be due to the wet field. Defensive line will always have an advantage in that situation because they get to dictate first move and our guys are stepping back on bad footing. Honestly, going back and rewatching, there was some pressure but nothing we haven't seen in the past. I think Brees struggles were more the result of the Bucs' very talented secondary and linebackers in coverage. We aren't going to play many teams with that much talent on defense this season, just Seattle and that's it. Thank you for pointing this out...so many on this board seem to be in such a ridiculous hurry to declare Brees is finished and the O-line a bust...everything for them has to fit that narrative about the contract so that's all they see....it was not raining at the start of the game, but for most of that hour while they were in the lightning delay, and the network switched to the Lions/Cardinals on TV, people seem to forget that the field in Tampa was just sitting there getting rained on...there's no question in my mind, the "rough day at the office" for Brees and the line, started AFTER the rain delay...before it they were marching at will down the field....almost like two different games.

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/60366-offensive-line-whos-biggest-liability.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
Offensive line. Whos the biggest liability?	This thread	Refback	09-16-2013 06:26 PM	35
The Latest New Orleans Saints News \| SportSpyder	This thread	Refback	09-16-2013 10:59 AM	11