How in the world can..............

GumboBC · 10-21-2004, 10:23 AM

.... some of you guys be talking about Brooks as the problem?

Some folks are so agenda driven. If anyone is talking about anything other than our horrible defense, then you've got an agenda to push. Hey, but that's nothing new.

Thankfully, any Saints' fan worth his salt knows who the agenda pushers are.

How can anyone of the agenda pushers have any credibility left? In my book, they have ZERO credibility.

If Jake Delhomme has taught us anything (besides being a one year wonder) is that it takes a team to be successful.

And the agenda hounds are finding some success only because they team up to push their anti-Brooks agenda.

That it all............. :o

saintfan · 10-21-2004, 10:26 AM

Ahhh yes. How COULD someone continue to focus on Brooks if they\'re watching the same games I am? I know exactly how, but saying it tends to hurt feelings...at least when I do it.

And the agenda hounds are finding some success only because they team up to push their anti-Brooks agenda.

This is presently happening to me, but I shall not waiver.

GumboBC · 10-21-2004, 10:29 AM

saintfan --

Just take some comfort in the fact that (their boy) Delhomme sucks. It makes my day a little brighter.

You don\'t hear \'em saying too much about Delhomme now do ya? But it sure was different last year.

Ahhhhh..... ain\'t it sweet??

saintfan · 10-21-2004, 10:31 AM

They brush off Jake Delhomme now like an ex-girlfriend.

GumboBC · 10-21-2004, 10:36 AM

They brush off Jake Delhomme now like an ex-girlfriend.

Sounds about right. But they lose credibility on evaluating QB\'s. If it were up to them we\'d have Jake and we\'d have a QB who\'s leading the ENTIRE NFL in interceptions.

Hell, Jake can\'t win with the Panthers defense and they are ranked 8th in the NFL RIGHT NOW!!

Wonder how Jake would do with our 32 ranked defense?

You just have to laugh at those guys and not take it personally. They know they are pushing agendas and that\'s what they like to do.

saintswhodi · 10-21-2004, 10:43 AM

I love Brooks and don\'t wanna get caught in all this \"agenda\" talk, and I definitely do not feel Brooks is the entire problem(although that goal line fumble in Arizona and red zone INT against Minny didn\'t help), so maybe 5% of the problem at the most, but could injuries have anything to do with Jake\'s inefficiency this year? Their o-line is horrible, their top back was hurt and is playing hurt, second string back went down, their #1 receiver went down, notice a trend? Did anyone think Muhammed had anything left when Jake went to Carolina? Did anyone think Smith was more than a return man? Jake made these players very relevant to the rest of the NFL. Did you see him shred New England\'s D in the Superbowl? Yikes.

I would love to have either he or AB but we have AB so he\'s my guy. He definitely is not the problem though, just like Jake is not the problem in Carolina.

saintswhodi · 10-21-2004, 10:54 AM

Just to continue, I think a lot of AB\'s problems can be traced to McCarthy and his predictable play-calling. I will use Culpepper as an example. In recent years he has had a problem with fumbles too, but not this year. The O-coordinator in Minny changed the game up for him. If anyone has noticed Culpepper runs less and lines up in shotgun more. The shotgun gives him more time to get rid of the ball and they don\'t do those goalline Culpepper draws any more, they just toss it up to their receivers from the 1, 2, whatever.

McCarthy does not do this for AB, or at least he has nto so far. Why don\'t we see AB in more shotgun? Who in the world doesn\'t know now if Karney is in, we are running? Why don\'t we pass in these situations more? Why when we are only down by a score(take the Minny game at the start of the second half) do we come out and throw 3 straight times instead of using Deuce against one of the worst defenses in the league? McCarthy is putting AB in positions to fail, and AB is suffering because of it.

saintfan · 10-21-2004, 11:14 AM

Of course injuries matter, and certainly Jake\'s performance suffers, but that\'s the whole point. Last year a select few members here thought Jake was the second coming, while others of us were of the opinion that Jake is propped up rather nicely by receivers that help him out tremendously, an incredible running game and an even better defense. Jake doesn\'t have those things now and these same people are quick to point out all the injuries. The thing is that these are the same people that refused to acknowledge injuries relative to the Saints. Kinda funny ain\'t it?

saintswhodi · 10-21-2004, 12:41 PM

I see your point and can not disagree. I guess I am kinda playing both sides here since I like Jake and AB. I am defending Jake to you and defending AB to others so we really aren\'t in disagreement. I have seen the trend of prior conversations to go toward the \"look at what Jake could have done for us\" variety and I can see both sides of that. If we had a top 10 D I am sure AB would look a whole lot better to others just as I am sure if Carolina wasn\'t losing everyone who mattered Jake would be doing well again this year. Bottom line, if AB is any part of the problem, it is 5% or less I feel. He still doesn\'t know what a touch pass is or when to throw it away even in the red zone, but he has played well despite having heaps of pressure on him to perform and with Deuce being out. I blame McCarthy for Brooks not being as efficient as he could be and blame Haslett for coddling him instead of developing him.

saintfan · 10-21-2004, 01:09 PM

Whodi, I am accused regularly (by ones who get their feelings hurt, by accusations oddly enough) of being a Brooks \"lover\". This is because I have stated over and over and over again that he\'s not the problem. When you score like the Saints typically score how on earth you justify complaining about the QB is amazing! My specific argument has always been that he\'s plenty good enough (and much better than is required in my opinion) to take this team to the Superbowl. I was hollerin\' loud and proud here for YEARS (two at least) about the defense and the dropped passes and the o-line, but to no avail...not where the Brooks Bashers are concerned. They were (and still are) more interested in his contract.

The defense, back then, was never mentioned, while I was screaming about the offense having to score 30+ points a game to win, yet you still have a select few harping on the QB\'s stats.

I had been screaming about the dropped pass issue for a year and a half before the Brooks bashers decided it might be an issue...and they only started to acknowledge it after the media figured it out.

I maintain now as I have for a least a year now that our o-line is inconsistant at best. They have some decent games and some terrible games. Some (at least one in particular) use the word \"excel\" to describe the o-line\'s performance, but typically only when they\'re (he)debating with me.

I\'m not the only one, but I\'m in the minority here based on those that post regularly. When the hypocricacy is at such a high level, a particular word comes to mind that more than adequately describes it, but when used, it offends the two or three people it most accurately describes and the whining starts.

10-21-2004, 10:23 AM	#1
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	How in the world can.............. .... some of you guys be talking about Brooks as the problem? Some folks are so agenda driven. If anyone is talking about anything other than our horrible defense, then you've got an agenda to push. Hey, but that's nothing new. Thankfully, any Saints' fan worth his salt knows who the agenda pushers are. How can anyone of the agenda pushers have any credibility left? In my book, they have ZERO credibility. If Jake Delhomme has taught us anything (besides being a one year wonder) is that it takes a team to be successful. And the agenda hounds are finding some success only because they team up to push their anti-Brooks agenda. That it all............. :o
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

10-21-2004, 10:26 AM	#2
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	How in the world can.............. Ahhh yes. How COULD someone continue to focus on Brooks if they\'re watching the same games I am? I know exactly how, but saying it tends to hurt feelings...at least when I do it. And the agenda hounds are finding some success only because they team up to push their anti-Brooks agenda. This is presently happening to me, but I shall not waiver.

10-21-2004, 10:29 AM	#3
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	How in the world can.............. saintfan -- Just take some comfort in the fact that (their boy) Delhomme sucks. It makes my day a little brighter. You don\'t hear \'em saying too much about Delhomme now do ya? But it sure was different last year. Ahhhhh..... ain\'t it sweet??
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

10-21-2004, 10:31 AM	#4
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	How in the world can.............. They brush off Jake Delhomme now like an ex-girlfriend.

10-21-2004, 10:36 AM	#5
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	How in the world can.............. They brush off Jake Delhomme now like an ex-girlfriend. Sounds about right. But they lose credibility on evaluating QB\'s. If it were up to them we\'d have Jake and we\'d have a QB who\'s leading the ENTIRE NFL in interceptions. Hell, Jake can\'t win with the Panthers defense and they are ranked 8th in the NFL RIGHT NOW!! Wonder how Jake would do with our 32 ranked defense? You just have to laugh at those guys and not take it personally. They know they are pushing agendas and that\'s what they like to do.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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10-21-2004, 10:43 AM	#6
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	How in the world can.............. I love Brooks and don\'t wanna get caught in all this \"agenda\" talk, and I definitely do not feel Brooks is the entire problem(although that goal line fumble in Arizona and red zone INT against Minny didn\'t help), so maybe 5% of the problem at the most, but could injuries have anything to do with Jake\'s inefficiency this year? Their o-line is horrible, their top back was hurt and is playing hurt, second string back went down, their #1 receiver went down, notice a trend? Did anyone think Muhammed had anything left when Jake went to Carolina? Did anyone think Smith was more than a return man? Jake made these players very relevant to the rest of the NFL. Did you see him shred New England\'s D in the Superbowl? Yikes. I would love to have either he or AB but we have AB so he\'s my guy. He definitely is not the problem though, just like Jake is not the problem in Carolina.

10-21-2004, 10:54 AM	#7
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	How in the world can.............. Just to continue, I think a lot of AB\'s problems can be traced to McCarthy and his predictable play-calling. I will use Culpepper as an example. In recent years he has had a problem with fumbles too, but not this year. The O-coordinator in Minny changed the game up for him. If anyone has noticed Culpepper runs less and lines up in shotgun more. The shotgun gives him more time to get rid of the ball and they don\'t do those goalline Culpepper draws any more, they just toss it up to their receivers from the 1, 2, whatever. McCarthy does not do this for AB, or at least he has nto so far. Why don\'t we see AB in more shotgun? Who in the world doesn\'t know now if Karney is in, we are running? Why don\'t we pass in these situations more? Why when we are only down by a score(take the Minny game at the start of the second half) do we come out and throw 3 straight times instead of using Deuce against one of the worst defenses in the league? McCarthy is putting AB in positions to fail, and AB is suffering because of it.

10-21-2004, 11:14 AM	#8
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	How in the world can.............. Of course injuries matter, and certainly Jake\'s performance suffers, but that\'s the whole point. Last year a select few members here thought Jake was the second coming, while others of us were of the opinion that Jake is propped up rather nicely by receivers that help him out tremendously, an incredible running game and an even better defense. Jake doesn\'t have those things now and these same people are quick to point out all the injuries. The thing is that these are the same people that refused to acknowledge injuries relative to the Saints. Kinda funny ain\'t it?
	C'mon Man...

10-21-2004, 12:41 PM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	How in the world can.............. I see your point and can not disagree. I guess I am kinda playing both sides here since I like Jake and AB. I am defending Jake to you and defending AB to others so we really aren\'t in disagreement. I have seen the trend of prior conversations to go toward the \"look at what Jake could have done for us\" variety and I can see both sides of that. If we had a top 10 D I am sure AB would look a whole lot better to others just as I am sure if Carolina wasn\'t losing everyone who mattered Jake would be doing well again this year. Bottom line, if AB is any part of the problem, it is 5% or less I feel. He still doesn\'t know what a touch pass is or when to throw it away even in the red zone, but he has played well despite having heaps of pressure on him to perform and with Deuce being out. I blame McCarthy for Brooks not being as efficient as he could be and blame Haslett for coddling him instead of developing him.

10-21-2004, 01:09 PM	#10
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	How in the world can.............. Whodi, I am accused regularly (by ones who get their feelings hurt, by accusations oddly enough) of being a Brooks \"lover\". This is because I have stated over and over and over again that he\'s not the problem. When you score like the Saints typically score how on earth you justify complaining about the QB is amazing! My specific argument has always been that he\'s plenty good enough (and much better than is required in my opinion) to take this team to the Superbowl. I was hollerin\' loud and proud here for YEARS (two at least) about the defense and the dropped passes and the o-line, but to no avail...not where the Brooks Bashers are concerned. They were (and still are) more interested in his contract. The defense, back then, was never mentioned, while I was screaming about the offense having to score 30+ points a game to win, yet you still have a select few harping on the QB\'s stats. I had been screaming about the dropped pass issue for a year and a half before the Brooks bashers decided it might be an issue...and they only started to acknowledge it after the media figured it out. I maintain now as I have for a least a year now that our o-line is inconsistant at best. They have some decent games and some terrible games. Some (at least one in particular) use the word \"excel\" to describe the o-line\'s performance, but typically only when they\'re (he)debating with me. I\'m not the only one, but I\'m in the minority here based on those that post regularly. When the hypocricacy is at such a high level, a particular word comes to mind that more than adequately describes it, but when used, it offends the two or three people it most accurately describes and the whining starts.
	C'mon Man...