Brooks and Saints are losers

Saint_LB · 10-27-2004, 07:59 PM

I am not an AB hater. I am an advocate of change when change is needed. Lots of players have been replaced in order to see if the other guy might be able to do the job. I don\'t think that Bouman is the guy, however. J.T. might have done alright, maybe not. I sure would have liked to see what he could\'ve done. Just like on a few occasions before Jake moved on that I would have liked to have seen him given a shot, especially when AB was hurt and we were one win away from the playoffs with three weak teams to go. I don\'t know about you, but I am certainly more satisfied with Deuce being our guy than Ricky. If we hadn\'t have given Deuce a shot, we may not have gotten rid of Ricky before he flaked out. THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING. I think it is time to give someone else a shot, but, I am not sure if that guy is currently on the roster, now that J.T. is gone. No, I don\'t blame all the problems on him, but I have wondered alot recently if someone else might be able to get both sides of the ball fired up, and play at their top level. Are you positive this team has not given up on him. I really wonder, sometimes.

blackwidows · 10-27-2004, 08:02 PM

Yes I forgot young was a scrambling qb. Good job blackandblue. I must say this white vs black qb thing I hate when people bring it up. Yes I KNOW i did but it is about as stupid as Johnny Cochran saying that if you don\'t bring in minority coaches for a visit when searching for a new coach you will lose your 1st round draft pick. Soon the white qb may be non existant. I mean look at the running back back position there is no such thing as a white runningback fullback yes. Alstott. You know I must say I can\'t wait for this to happen than maybe the whole white vs black qb debate will end.

[Edited on 28/10/2004 by blackwidows]

saintswhodi · 10-27-2004, 08:32 PM

blackwidows,

That is pretty funny how you brought black/white into the convo and then said later you wished it would end. Have you enbibed this evening?

BiggPoppaFro3 · 10-28-2004, 10:45 AM

IMO we are blessed to have a kid with the arm and legs of AB. How many of us remember names live Everett, Shuler, the Billy Joes and Collins? Are we winning anywhere near as many with them? Are we even beginning to hope for a great year with them? No.

AB has done everything the coaches have asked of him and more. He can gun it like only 5 others in the NFL can, can scramble but holds in the pocket b/c it\'s what coaches tell him to do, and at any given moment can lead us down the field for a score I\'ve only ever seen done on Madden.

Frustrating thing about him is leadership. He doesn\'t, plain and simple. At least he isn\'t just smiling on the sidelines all the time anymore. If he whipped butt in the huddle maybe that gravy train of a line would protect him long enough.

Basically, black or white, AB is good and could be great. With out him we are the Buffalo Bills.

[Edited on 28/10/2004 by BiggPoppaFro3]

SaintFanInATLHELL · 10-28-2004, 07:38 PM

If you need me to point out all of the chokes at the most crucial moments of important games...the mysterious drops without anyone touching him....the smiling at inappropriate times, something that makes a lot of people irritated....these are all things that make people grow tired and weary of his act. Personality, or savvy, is an important part of the QB position. People don\'t like you and it starts showing on both sides of the football.

So just to get this straight. A player makes some mistakes and smiles at the wrong time and all of a sudden, he is disliked and other players start dropping balls, fumbling, false starting and stop playing defense.

You\'re kidding, right?

The types of problems that you\'re pointing out have been pretty much corrected this season. 1 fumble: admittedly at a crucial time, 3 INTS, no mysterious drops.

I haven\'t been measuring inappropriate smiles. Last time I checked that didn\'t help or hurt when it came to winning football games.

The Saints need someone to come in and provide a spark....it happens all the time. Brooks came in and did that very thing in 2000,

Nope. The Saints were 7-4 when Blake went down. No spark was required. Brooks just found a way to keep things going that season.

Four years later we are all still waiting for him to return to that level of play....but, somewhere along the line, AB got to believing that he was a superstar and should be treated that way. I say you have to earn that, first, and, coming in one year and providing a spark for that one year does not make you a superstar. It is a good start, but you have to build on it, and that is where he has \"dropped the ball.\" (Pardon the pun!)

What level of play are you talking about? 24TDs, 8 Ints, 3500+ yards, and the unfortuate 11 lost fumbles are his line from last year. This year it\'s 9 TDs 3 INTs, and nearly 1700 yards in less than a half season. That projects out to 20+ TDs 7 INTS, 1 fumbles, 3500+ yards.
BTW all of the postive stats will be for the 4th straight year.

You seem to want change without real justification. Somehow you think that if you can get the right charisma in place that somehow that everyone is going to get fired up and start playing 1000 percent better.

As for the superstar label, I think Brooks simply wants a bit of appreciation from the fans and the media for what he has done. Some in the national media gets it. Since I\'m in Atlanta I have to listen to the Fox commentatators for the game. One pointed out this exact argument that you and I are having here. He couldn\'t understand why the Saints fans and media are so hard on the guy.

Would you be happy if you were blamed for all the teams woes when in fact that close to the only reason that the team has the 3 wins that it has is because of your efforts.

Personally I\'m glad the guy can chuckle in the face of this type of adversity. It\'s one of the reasons why his production remains high even in the face of all of the obstacles that abound around here.

SFIAH

Saint_LB · 10-28-2004, 08:27 PM

I suppose we\'ll just have to agree to disagree. I would like to see someone else get a shot to lead our team at the position that is most watched by most fans. It is not rocket science. He has had his shot.

BlackandBlue · 10-28-2004, 09:55 PM

With out him we are the Buffalo Bills.

I think London an Co. would be insulted.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 10-29-2004, 12:56 AM

I suppose we\'ll just have to agree to disagree. I would like to see someone else get a shot to lead our team at the position that is most watched by most fans. It is not rocket science. He has had his shot.

I agree to disagree. I\'ll be quiet after I ask one last question:

So exactly who would you give a chance to lead this team now?

SFIAH

Saint_LB · 10-29-2004, 08:18 AM

That is an excellent question, SFIAH. As I mentioned previously, I don\'t think Bouman is the answer, and I would rather see AB play than him. I would have liked to see what J.T. could have done, but I had never even heard of him before he was a Saint. When I did see him play, I thought he brought that spark that I referred to earlier. I realize that he would have been sort of a long shot, but, I still would have liked to see what he could\'ve done, kinda like I would have liked to see what Jake could\'ve done before we let him go. With that being said, the way things are now, I probably would have to go the trade route, or the draft. There were a couple of good ones in last years draft, at least two. I wouldn\'t be too sad about having Ben R. on our roster now....hind sight being twenty\'/twenty. Obviously, Eli would have been nice. Those two guys would not have been too much of a stretch of the imagination for us to have traded up to get too, especially if we would have included AB in the deal. If I start fantasizing, of course it would have been nice to pry Peyton away from Indy, or Favre away from GB, being that both those guys are local kids it would have been a good fit....a good fit for us fans, probably not for the players, though. They could end up in the same boat that AB is in now.....as the Saints have always been losers and have had some pretty big names back there trying to turn it around, but usually near the end of their careers...such as Stabler, Chrissy, Todd, etc.
I have a question for you, SFIAH. Did you use to go to the old message board on the Saint website? If so, did your name begin with a J? Let me know, I think we may have had this disagreement a few times in the past!!!

SaintFanInATLHELL · 10-29-2004, 01:03 PM

I\'m back because I think the discussion has turned in a new direction.

That is an excellent question, SFIAH. As I mentioned previously, I don\'t think Bouman is the answer, and I would rather see AB play than him.

Look at that! We agree on something!

BTW does anyone know what magic potion Dennis Green gives QBs to make them look like all World when they play for him, and crap elsewhere? Maybe we should consider sending Brooks to the Cardinals. He, the old man, and Pendergast defense would make it deep into the playoffs next year.

I would have liked to see what J.T. could have done, but I had never even heard of him before he was a Saint. When I did see him play, I thought he brought that spark that I referred to earlier. I realize that he would have been sort of a long shot, but, I still would have liked to see what he could\'ve done, kinda like I would have liked to see what Jake could\'ve done before we let him go. With that being said, the way things are now, I probably would have to go the trade route, or the draft.

It was my thought that J.T. should have been the second string QB. The Saints may regret letting him go down the road.

There were a couple of good ones in last years draft, at least two. I wouldn\'t be too sad about having Ben R. on our roster now....hind sight being twenty\'/twenty. Obviously, Eli would have been nice. Those two guys would not have been too much of a stretch of the imagination for us to have traded up to get too, especially if we would have included AB in the deal.

Trade up with what? Next year\'s draft picks? Two consecutive #1\'s is way too steep a price to pay. Just look at the disaster that occured the last time this organization did that.

And trading up to get a QB when the CB and LB positions needed so much help would be real hard to justify. Remember that everyone around here wanted Vilma in April. A trade up into the top 10 had better had been for Robinson or Hall, a need so dire that we finally traded for McKenzie.

If I start fantasizing, of course it would have been nice to pry Peyton away from Indy, or Favre away from GB, being that both those guys are local kids it would have been a good fit....a good fit for us fans, probably not for the players, though. They could end up in the same boat that AB is in now.....as the Saints have always been losers and have had some pretty big names back there trying to turn it around, but usually near the end of their careers...such as Stabler, Chrissy, Todd, etc.

Glad you marked it as a fantasy.

But let\'s keep this going. The great thing about the NFL is that next year there\'s going to be more players available. I\'m not completely up to speed on who is going to be available next year but on to the questions:

1. What upcoming QB would you look to draft?
2. Say for the sake of argument that in the draft position the Saints end up with you have players such as WR Mike Williams, or a top LB in the Vilma class. Would you still take a QB?

I have a question for you, SFIAH. Did you use to go to the old message board on the Saint website? If so, did your name begin with a J? Let me know, I think we may have had this disagreement a few times in the past!!!

Nope and nope. I\'m a brand new adversary.

SFIAH

10-27-2004, 07:59 PM	#21
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Brooks and Saints are losers I am not an AB hater. I am an advocate of change when change is needed. Lots of players have been replaced in order to see if the other guy might be able to do the job. I don\'t think that Bouman is the guy, however. J.T. might have done alright, maybe not. I sure would have liked to see what he could\'ve done. Just like on a few occasions before Jake moved on that I would have liked to have seen him given a shot, especially when AB was hurt and we were one win away from the playoffs with three weak teams to go. I don\'t know about you, but I am certainly more satisfied with Deuce being our guy than Ricky. If we hadn\'t have given Deuce a shot, we may not have gotten rid of Ricky before he flaked out. THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING. I think it is time to give someone else a shot, but, I am not sure if that guy is currently on the roster, now that J.T. is gone. No, I don\'t blame all the problems on him, but I have wondered alot recently if someone else might be able to get both sides of the ball fired up, and play at their top level. Are you positive this team has not given up on him. I really wonder, sometimes.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

10-27-2004, 08:02 PM	#22
blackwidows 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 245	Brooks and Saints are losers Yes I forgot young was a scrambling qb. Good job blackandblue. I must say this white vs black qb thing I hate when people bring it up. Yes I KNOW i did but it is about as stupid as Johnny Cochran saying that if you don\'t bring in minority coaches for a visit when searching for a new coach you will lose your 1st round draft pick. Soon the white qb may be non existant. I mean look at the running back back position there is no such thing as a white runningback fullback yes. Alstott. You know I must say I can\'t wait for this to happen than maybe the whole white vs black qb debate will end. [Edited on 28/10/2004 by blackwidows]
blackwidows 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 245

10-27-2004, 08:32 PM	#23
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Brooks and Saints are losers blackwidows, That is pretty funny how you brought black/white into the convo and then said later you wished it would end. Have you enbibed this evening?

10-28-2004, 10:45 AM	#24
BiggPoppaFro3 Registered Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 71	Brooks and Saints are losers IMO we are blessed to have a kid with the arm and legs of AB. How many of us remember names live Everett, Shuler, the Billy Joes and Collins? Are we winning anywhere near as many with them? Are we even beginning to hope for a great year with them? No. AB has done everything the coaches have asked of him and more. He can gun it like only 5 others in the NFL can, can scramble but holds in the pocket b/c it\'s what coaches tell him to do, and at any given moment can lead us down the field for a score I\'ve only ever seen done on Madden. Frustrating thing about him is leadership. He doesn\'t, plain and simple. At least he isn\'t just smiling on the sidelines all the time anymore. If he whipped butt in the huddle maybe that gravy train of a line would protect him long enough. Basically, black or white, AB is good and could be great. With out him we are the Buffalo Bills. [Edited on 28/10/2004 by BiggPoppaFro3]
BiggPoppaFro3 Registered Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 71

10-28-2004, 07:38 PM	#25
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Brooks and Saints are losers If you need me to point out all of the chokes at the most crucial moments of important games...the mysterious drops without anyone touching him....the smiling at inappropriate times, something that makes a lot of people irritated....these are all things that make people grow tired and weary of his act. Personality, or savvy, is an important part of the QB position. People don\'t like you and it starts showing on both sides of the football. So just to get this straight. A player makes some mistakes and smiles at the wrong time and all of a sudden, he is disliked and other players start dropping balls, fumbling, false starting and stop playing defense. You\'re kidding, right? The types of problems that you\'re pointing out have been pretty much corrected this season. 1 fumble: admittedly at a crucial time, 3 INTS, no mysterious drops. I haven\'t been measuring inappropriate smiles. Last time I checked that didn\'t help or hurt when it came to winning football games. The Saints need someone to come in and provide a spark....it happens all the time. Brooks came in and did that very thing in 2000, Nope. The Saints were 7-4 when Blake went down. No spark was required. Brooks just found a way to keep things going that season. Four years later we are all still waiting for him to return to that level of play....but, somewhere along the line, AB got to believing that he was a superstar and should be treated that way. I say you have to earn that, first, and, coming in one year and providing a spark for that one year does not make you a superstar. It is a good start, but you have to build on it, and that is where he has \"dropped the ball.\" (Pardon the pun!) What level of play are you talking about? 24TDs, 8 Ints, 3500+ yards, and the unfortuate 11 lost fumbles are his line from last year. This year it\'s 9 TDs 3 INTs, and nearly 1700 yards in less than a half season. That projects out to 20+ TDs 7 INTS, 1 fumbles, 3500+ yards. BTW all of the postive stats will be for the 4th straight year. You seem to want change without real justification. Somehow you think that if you can get the right charisma in place that somehow that everyone is going to get fired up and start playing 1000 percent better. As for the superstar label, I think Brooks simply wants a bit of appreciation from the fans and the media for what he has done. Some in the national media gets it. Since I\'m in Atlanta I have to listen to the Fox commentatators for the game. One pointed out this exact argument that you and I are having here. He couldn\'t understand why the Saints fans and media are so hard on the guy. Would you be happy if you were blamed for all the teams woes when in fact that close to the only reason that the team has the 3 wins that it has is because of your efforts. Personally I\'m glad the guy can chuckle in the face of this type of adversity. It\'s one of the reasons why his production remains high even in the face of all of the obstacles that abound around here. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

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10-28-2004, 08:27 PM	#26
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Brooks and Saints are losers I suppose we\'ll just have to agree to disagree. I would like to see someone else get a shot to lead our team at the position that is most watched by most fans. It is not rocket science. He has had his shot.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

10-28-2004, 09:55 PM	#27
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Brooks and Saints are losers With out him we are the Buffalo Bills. I think London an Co. would be insulted.

10-29-2004, 12:56 AM	#28
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Brooks and Saints are losers I suppose we\'ll just have to agree to disagree. I would like to see someone else get a shot to lead our team at the position that is most watched by most fans. It is not rocket science. He has had his shot. I agree to disagree. I\'ll be quiet after I ask one last question: So exactly who would you give a chance to lead this team now? SFIAH

10-29-2004, 08:18 AM	#29
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Brooks and Saints are losers That is an excellent question, SFIAH. As I mentioned previously, I don\'t think Bouman is the answer, and I would rather see AB play than him. I would have liked to see what J.T. could have done, but I had never even heard of him before he was a Saint. When I did see him play, I thought he brought that spark that I referred to earlier. I realize that he would have been sort of a long shot, but, I still would have liked to see what he could\'ve done, kinda like I would have liked to see what Jake could\'ve done before we let him go. With that being said, the way things are now, I probably would have to go the trade route, or the draft. There were a couple of good ones in last years draft, at least two. I wouldn\'t be too sad about having Ben R. on our roster now....hind sight being twenty\'/twenty. Obviously, Eli would have been nice. Those two guys would not have been too much of a stretch of the imagination for us to have traded up to get too, especially if we would have included AB in the deal. If I start fantasizing, of course it would have been nice to pry Peyton away from Indy, or Favre away from GB, being that both those guys are local kids it would have been a good fit....a good fit for us fans, probably not for the players, though. They could end up in the same boat that AB is in now.....as the Saints have always been losers and have had some pretty big names back there trying to turn it around, but usually near the end of their careers...such as Stabler, Chrissy, Todd, etc. I have a question for you, SFIAH. Did you use to go to the old message board on the Saint website? If so, did your name begin with a J? Let me know, I think we may have had this disagreement a few times in the past!!!
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

10-29-2004, 01:03 PM	#30
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Brooks and Saints are losers I\'m back because I think the discussion has turned in a new direction. That is an excellent question, SFIAH. As I mentioned previously, I don\'t think Bouman is the answer, and I would rather see AB play than him. Look at that! We agree on something! BTW does anyone know what magic potion Dennis Green gives QBs to make them look like all World when they play for him, and crap elsewhere? Maybe we should consider sending Brooks to the Cardinals. He, the old man, and Pendergast defense would make it deep into the playoffs next year. I would have liked to see what J.T. could have done, but I had never even heard of him before he was a Saint. When I did see him play, I thought he brought that spark that I referred to earlier. I realize that he would have been sort of a long shot, but, I still would have liked to see what he could\'ve done, kinda like I would have liked to see what Jake could\'ve done before we let him go. With that being said, the way things are now, I probably would have to go the trade route, or the draft. It was my thought that J.T. should have been the second string QB. The Saints may regret letting him go down the road. There were a couple of good ones in last years draft, at least two. I wouldn\'t be too sad about having Ben R. on our roster now....hind sight being twenty\'/twenty. Obviously, Eli would have been nice. Those two guys would not have been too much of a stretch of the imagination for us to have traded up to get too, especially if we would have included AB in the deal. Trade up with what? Next year\'s draft picks? Two consecutive #1\'s is way too steep a price to pay. Just look at the disaster that occured the last time this organization did that. And trading up to get a QB when the CB and LB positions needed so much help would be real hard to justify. Remember that everyone around here wanted Vilma in April. A trade up into the top 10 had better had been for Robinson or Hall, a need so dire that we finally traded for McKenzie. If I start fantasizing, of course it would have been nice to pry Peyton away from Indy, or Favre away from GB, being that both those guys are local kids it would have been a good fit....a good fit for us fans, probably not for the players, though. They could end up in the same boat that AB is in now.....as the Saints have always been losers and have had some pretty big names back there trying to turn it around, but usually near the end of their careers...such as Stabler, Chrissy, Todd, etc. Glad you marked it as a fantasy. But let\'s keep this going. The great thing about the NFL is that next year there\'s going to be more players available. I\'m not completely up to speed on who is going to be available next year but on to the questions: 1. What upcoming QB would you look to draft? 2. Say for the sake of argument that in the draft position the Saints end up with you have players such as WR Mike Williams, or a top LB in the Vilma class. Would you still take a QB? I have a question for you, SFIAH. Did you use to go to the old message board on the Saint website? If so, did your name begin with a J? Let me know, I think we may have had this disagreement a few times in the past!!! Nope and nope. I\'m a brand new adversary. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.