2014 The year of the make over?

biloxi-indian · 12-15-2013, 01:44 AM

Loomis has said on numerous occasions to expect a 20-25% turnover on the roster year over year. If true we can expect at least 10 of those either on the roster or IR to be gone next year.

I expect Vilma, Smith, Coleman, Greer, PRob, Strief, Herring, Harper, Moore, McCown, Watson, Meachem, and (drum roll) Ingram (traded)....to be seeking employment elsewhere.

The Saints will have six picks next year as they gave up a late round pick to the 49ers. They always find two or three UDFA, and a few FA.

I also think Brown will be signed and moved to the right side (making Strief expendable). I would like to think the Saints would give serious consideration to Veldheer (Oakland), if available, at LT.

alleycat_126 · 12-15-2013, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

14 million to keep him
3.5 million to cut him

We've probablt seen the last of Will Smith folks.

Will Smith Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & Transactions

Im done, you haven't seen Will Smith get to a QB with regularity since I don't know forever..... but you Danno still have to defend cutting him LOL... No way you should have to defend this cut....It has to be made.. He was gone the day he went down.... in my mind.. Unfortunately!!!

alleycat_126 · 12-15-2013, 04:48 AM

This Defense as it is close to craking the code..... if you play the next season right you won't need much but staying healthy... How you is complex... but Loomis makes these things simple.

Me personally

- I would never cut Lance, restructure or trade because of Stills, but cut naw... You cut Lance you might as well stick a Patriots Jersey on him and give him 100 catches!!! They would drop Amendola in a hot second to get a receiver who does what Welker could do with out injury. And that's Lance.

If you trade Moore...You want Talib and probably nothing less.... As a matter of fact... I think the one thing you want in free agency is another CB like you discovered in Lewis this season.

- Will Smith cut
- Greer cut - Love what he has done for us, but I can't keep him here for that.
- Vima cut
- Meachum cut
- Herring cut
- Jenkins cut
- Harper restructured or cut

- Drew Brees Restructured... convert money into signing bonus.
- Butler Restructured
- Coleman restructured or cut.

- Jimmy Graham Exclusive Rights Franchise Tag.... you know the one where nobody can talk contract with him but your team

You will also be able to get out of your contract with Ingram to go into the draft in maybe the 3 rd and grab a new RB if you decide not to resign him...

DLP can be brought back on the cheap
Morgan as Well....

TheOak · 12-15-2013, 06:19 AM

The only reason Smith is still here
Is because more than 1/2 would have been lost in the divorce.

Next year the upside is huge.

Moore will not be here next season. Stills has taken over nearly all his targets.

We need a turn-over and this looks like the year to do it. If you wait too long you end up with rookie receivers and a rookie QB. Both is not a good recipe.

Danno · 12-15-2013, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

Im done, you haven't seen Will Smith get to a QB with regularity since I don't know forever..... but you Danno still have to defend cutting him LOL... No way you should have to defend this cut....It has to be made.. He was gone the day he went down.... in my mind.. Unfortunately!!!

I'm not defending the cut. I don't understand your point.

TheOak · 12-16-2013, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by alleycat_126

Im done, you haven't seen Will Smith get to a QB with regularity since I don't know forever..... but you Danno still have to defend cutting him LOL... No way you should have to defend this cut....It has to be made.. He was gone the day he went down.... in my mind.. Unfortunately!!!

You were making more sense in the dentist chair... You actually made more sense that 90% of the threads I woke up to this morning

Danno was not defending Smith, he was stating the reason that next season is the time to go .

The ONLY reason Will Smith was not cut this season is because we couldn't. You don't cut a player when you are overhauling a defense... need depth... and not sure how serviceable he will be in a new position to save $900k.

hagan714 · 12-16-2013, 08:13 AM

Talib skills are there if you keep him on the field. pass damaged goods

Jimmy Graham Exclusive Rights Franchise Tag

i can live with that move because he will become the highest paid TE in the NFL due to the fact he never lines up in a TE set. plus i believe that condition puts a first and third round pick on him also

(drum roll) Ingram (traded)

yep the can of worms that wont go away

2 first and say two thirds and lose Gram and Ingram. Gram you would need to replace and add a WR to equal out production. Ingram is a luxury that has been injured since day one and may get you a 3rd.

2014 will be fun

WhoDatFan26 · 12-16-2013, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Its premature but since we are discussing drafts and free agency ... Why not

I will start with my basis.

Presently with out restructuring we are $10 over neat years projected cap, and even with restructuring of Brees contract (noted because that is the first place people go) we still have some severely bloated cap numbers in comparison to production.

Lets say Drew takes a 10M cut and we are flush going into next year. Would anyone gripe about an 8M Drew Brees? I will not

These people are free agents: (listing only names I feel notable)
Full List - New Orleans Saints Free Agents - 2014
Jimmy graham
Malcom Jenkins
Zach Strief
Charles Brown
Jed Collins
Parys Haralson
Johnathan Vilma
Joe Morgan
DLP
To resign the free agents you would have to "Find" at least $25M.

Players not preforming to their cap figure (my opinion)
Jabari Greer $6M <- Jury still out but Corey White is handling business.
Will Smith $13M <--Dude will just not go away
Lance More <- Love you Lance but its business and your $5m is difficult to swallow with Stills preforming the way he is and if its between Jimmy graham and you... You would keep Jimmy also. (Lance has no dead money associated)
2014 Cap hits- New Orleans Saints Salary Cap - 2014 Breakdown

The point of this thread is that we need to get ready to see some old favorites gone.

Has this season taught us that the old familiar names of the players we have Jerseys for do not cripple us when they are gone?

Look where we are with out:
Will Smith
Johnathan Vlma
Jabari Greer

I say re-sign Graham, Jenkins and Haralson. Find replacements via draft for the rest.

WhoDatFan26 · 12-16-2013, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

Was looking at this last night. Currently $11.13 million over for next year.

-Cutting Will Smith alone will get you under the cap, but that is before signing any free agents.

-Cutting Harper is another 2.1 million. I wouldn't be surprised if Jenkins is gone as well, that's 1.65 million.

-As much as we all like Lance Moore, is he really worth his contract? Cutting him is another 2.5 million, although I think we would see him restructured rather than cut outright.

-The contract that is really killing this team right now is Ben Grubbs. IMO. His cap number is over 9.1 million and his performance is maybe worth 1/3 of that. Cutting him would provide almost no cap savings, but I think he would be a major candidate for a pay cut restructure.

-I am hardly an expert but from what I gather roughly 90% of Brees' 10.75 million base salary can be converted to signing bonus. So let's call that 9 million savings.

-I love Jabari Greer. I would absolutely hate to see him go. But we have a true #1 corner and multiple candidates for a good #2. This would save 3.175 million.

I am using the calculator at Salary Cap Calculator - Over the Cap . That doesn't account for all the various loopholes in the cap structure like dead money rollover that Loomis exploits every year, nor does it account for the cap increase next year which should be 3 or 4 million. BUT, I think it gives you a pretty good idea how we could go from 11 million over to 20 million under, giving us a fair amount of money to sign our own guys. Strief, Haralson, De la Puente, Graham, Collins, Bush are the guys that strike me as worth being re-signed.

As long as we have Brees there is a window to be competitive. I think a lot like the Colts with Peyton Manning, you keep pushing it back and pushing it back, then when he goes you blow the team up, take it on the nose for one year and put yourself back in position to be good again after a rebuild.

We may not need to re-sign Strief with Harris already on the roster. He can slide into the RT slot and LT is either Armstead or draft pick.

WhoDatFan26 · 12-16-2013, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

6 Mill cap hit and we'd save 4 million by releasing him.

We're bumping the cap. If he wants to restructure, fine. But he's probably not a $6 million player, even if he came back healthy.

Every high dollar player we keep makes it harder to sign Graham, Jenkins, Brown, Collins, Haralson and Strief. Not to mention potential free-agents we may desire.

Brown wont be back, so don't worry about him. The only players we need to resign are M. Jenkins, J. Graham and P. Haralson, the rest including Collins and Bush can and have been replaced before and will continue to be replaced. Lets not get sentimental over the incorrect players.

12-15-2013, 01:44 AM	#31
biloxi-indian Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 1,706	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? Loomis has said on numerous occasions to expect a 20-25% turnover on the roster year over year. If true we can expect at least 10 of those either on the roster or IR to be gone next year. I expect Vilma, Smith, Coleman, Greer, PRob, Strief, Herring, Harper, Moore, McCown, Watson, Meachem, and (drum roll) Ingram (traded)....to be seeking employment elsewhere. The Saints will have six picks next year as they gave up a late round pick to the 49ers. They always find two or three UDFA, and a few FA. I also think Brown will be signed and moved to the right side (making Strief expendable). I would like to think the Saints would give serious consideration to Veldheer (Oakland), if available, at LT.
	Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over, over, and over again...and expecting a different outcome!

12-15-2013, 04:21 AM	#32
alleycat_126 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Katy, Tx a suburb of Houston Posts: 2,089	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? Originally Posted by Danno 14 million to keep him 3.5 million to cut him We've probablt seen the last of Will Smith folks. Will Smith Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & Transactions Im done, you haven't seen Will Smith get to a QB with regularity since I don't know forever..... but you Danno still have to defend cutting him LOL... No way you should have to defend this cut....It has to be made.. He was gone the day he went down.... in my mind.. Unfortunately!!!

12-15-2013, 04:48 AM	#33
alleycat_126 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Katy, Tx a suburb of Houston Posts: 2,089	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? This Defense as it is close to craking the code..... if you play the next season right you won't need much but staying healthy... How you is complex... but Loomis makes these things simple. Me personally - I would never cut Lance, restructure or trade because of Stills, but cut naw... You cut Lance you might as well stick a Patriots Jersey on him and give him 100 catches!!! They would drop Amendola in a hot second to get a receiver who does what Welker could do with out injury. And that's Lance. If you trade Moore...You want Talib and probably nothing less.... As a matter of fact... I think the one thing you want in free agency is another CB like you discovered in Lewis this season. - Will Smith cut - Greer cut - Love what he has done for us, but I can't keep him here for that. - Vima cut - Meachum cut - Herring cut - Jenkins cut - Harper restructured or cut - Drew Brees Restructured... convert money into signing bonus. - Butler Restructured - Coleman restructured or cut. - Jimmy Graham Exclusive Rights Franchise Tag.... you know the one where nobody can talk contract with him but your team You will also be able to get out of your contract with Ingram to go into the draft in maybe the 3 rd and grab a new RB if you decide not to resign him... DLP can be brought back on the cheap Morgan as Well....
	You shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house, and if have a glass jaw you should watch your mouth..... cause I'll break your face!!! -50 cent

12-15-2013, 06:19 AM	#34
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? The only reason Smith is still here Is because more than 1/2 would have been lost in the divorce. Next year the upside is huge. Moore will not be here next season. Stills has taken over nearly all his targets. We need a turn-over and this looks like the year to do it. If you wait too long you end up with rookie receivers and a rookie QB. Both is not a good recipe.

12-15-2013, 09:16 AM	#35
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? Originally Posted by alleycat_126 Im done, you haven't seen Will Smith get to a QB with regularity since I don't know forever..... but you Danno still have to defend cutting him LOL... No way you should have to defend this cut....It has to be made.. He was gone the day he went down.... in my mind.. Unfortunately!!! I'm not defending the cut. I don't understand your point.

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12-16-2013, 08:00 AM	#36
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? Originally Posted by alleycat_126 Im done, you haven't seen Will Smith get to a QB with regularity since I don't know forever..... but you Danno still have to defend cutting him LOL... No way you should have to defend this cut....It has to be made.. He was gone the day he went down.... in my mind.. Unfortunately!!! You were making more sense in the dentist chair... You actually made more sense that 90% of the threads I woke up to this morning Danno was not defending Smith, he was stating the reason that next season is the time to go . The ONLY reason Will Smith was not cut this season is because we couldn't. You don't cut a player when you are overhauling a defense... need depth... and not sure how serviceable he will be in a new position to save $900k.

12-16-2013, 08:13 AM	#37
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? Talib skills are there if you keep him on the field. pass damaged goods Jimmy Graham Exclusive Rights Franchise Tag i can live with that move because he will become the highest paid TE in the NFL due to the fact he never lines up in a TE set. plus i believe that condition puts a first and third round pick on him also (drum roll) Ingram (traded) yep the can of worms that wont go away 2 first and say two thirds and lose Gram and Ingram. Gram you would need to replace and add a WR to equal out production. Ingram is a luxury that has been injured since day one and may get you a 3rd. 2014 will be fun
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 12-16-2013 at 08:18 AM..

12-16-2013, 11:43 AM	#38
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? Originally Posted by TheOak Its premature but since we are discussing drafts and free agency ... Why not I will start with my basis. Presently with out restructuring we are $10 over neat years projected cap, and even with restructuring of Brees contract (noted because that is the first place people go) we still have some severely bloated cap numbers in comparison to production. Lets say Drew takes a 10M cut and we are flush going into next year. Would anyone gripe about an 8M Drew Brees? I will not These people are free agents: (listing only names I feel notable) Full List - New Orleans Saints Free Agents - 2014 Jimmy graham Malcom Jenkins Zach Strief Charles Brown Jed Collins Parys Haralson Johnathan Vilma Joe Morgan DLP To resign the free agents you would have to "Find" at least $25M. Players not preforming to their cap figure (my opinion) Jabari Greer $6M <- Jury still out but Corey White is handling business. Will Smith $13M <--Dude will just not go away Lance More <- Love you Lance but its business and your $5m is difficult to swallow with Stills preforming the way he is and if its between Jimmy graham and you... You would keep Jimmy also. (Lance has no dead money associated) 2014 Cap hits- New Orleans Saints Salary Cap - 2014 Breakdown The point of this thread is that we need to get ready to see some old favorites gone. Has this season taught us that the old familiar names of the players we have Jerseys for do not cripple us when they are gone? Look where we are with out: Will Smith Johnathan Vlma Jabari Greer I say re-sign Graham, Jenkins and Haralson. Find replacements via draft for the rest.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

12-16-2013, 11:46 AM	#39
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? Originally Posted by Jack Vegas Was looking at this last night. Currently $11.13 million over for next year. -Cutting Will Smith alone will get you under the cap, but that is before signing any free agents. -Cutting Harper is another 2.1 million. I wouldn't be surprised if Jenkins is gone as well, that's 1.65 million. -As much as we all like Lance Moore, is he really worth his contract? Cutting him is another 2.5 million, although I think we would see him restructured rather than cut outright. -The contract that is really killing this team right now is Ben Grubbs. IMO. His cap number is over 9.1 million and his performance is maybe worth 1/3 of that. Cutting him would provide almost no cap savings, but I think he would be a major candidate for a pay cut restructure. -I am hardly an expert but from what I gather roughly 90% of Brees' 10.75 million base salary can be converted to signing bonus. So let's call that 9 million savings. -I love Jabari Greer. I would absolutely hate to see him go. But we have a true #1 corner and multiple candidates for a good #2. This would save 3.175 million. I am using the calculator at Salary Cap Calculator - Over the Cap . That doesn't account for all the various loopholes in the cap structure like dead money rollover that Loomis exploits every year, nor does it account for the cap increase next year which should be 3 or 4 million. BUT, I think it gives you a pretty good idea how we could go from 11 million over to 20 million under, giving us a fair amount of money to sign our own guys. Strief, Haralson, De la Puente, Graham, Collins, Bush are the guys that strike me as worth being re-signed. As long as we have Brees there is a window to be competitive. I think a lot like the Colts with Peyton Manning, you keep pushing it back and pushing it back, then when he goes you blow the team up, take it on the nose for one year and put yourself back in position to be good again after a rebuild. We may not need to re-sign Strief with Harris already on the roster. He can slide into the RT slot and LT is either Armstead or draft pick.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

12-16-2013, 11:53 AM	#40
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365	Re: 2014 The year of the make over? Originally Posted by Danno 6 Mill cap hit and we'd save 4 million by releasing him. We're bumping the cap. If he wants to restructure, fine. But he's probably not a $6 million player, even if he came back healthy. Every high dollar player we keep makes it harder to sign Graham, Jenkins, Brown, Collins, Haralson and Strief. Not to mention potential free-agents we may desire. Brown wont be back, so don't worry about him. The only players we need to resign are M. Jenkins, J. Graham and P. Haralson, the rest including Collins and Bush can and have been replaced before and will continue to be replaced. Lets not get sentimental over the incorrect players.
WhoDatFan26 100th Post Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 365

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