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-   -   Offensive Line (educational) (https://blackandgold.com/saints/62877-offensive-line-educational.html)

Budsdrinker 12-16-2013 09:11 PM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmohams (Post 560777)
Here's to drafting the next Willie Roaf
I think we have him in Armstead and I heard he was receiving tips from Roaf since they were from the same part of Arkansas

nicebush25 12-16-2013 09:35 PM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
A question that should have been asked is, how important is the o-line coach. I would like to know seeing how we lost ours this year and there is a obvious decline in pass protection

WHODATINCA 12-17-2013 01:59 AM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 560765)
Yes and no..... Most fans watch the ball and are relatively clueless as to who misses some blocks in the running game.

Familiar with a "trap block"?
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/17/bu4a6eqy.jpg
For the sake of this discussion both sides are the same as in Right side o-line is over Right side d-line.

Right Side DT crushes TB...... 98% of fans blame RT.

The trap block means it was actually the LGs responsibility to block the RDT. Notice the black line crossing in front of the Center.

With me so far? Yes you are.

Now....... The complicated nuances of the offensive line. The Center comes off the ball and gets jammed at the line.

When the LG pulls it's fast.... Very fast. Ball snapped, pivot right explode fast. He has to get to that RDT before that RB hits the hole.

But chit... He pivoted ad exploded into the side of the Center because he didn't get out if the way, never made it to the RDT, and the RB was crushed at the line of scrimmage.

Right tackle gets blamed or Right guard gets blamed
The Left Guard missed the block
It was all the Centers fault.

If you are with me to this point you'll understand some of my past comments about the offensive line being more about how the group plays together than how good each of them are individually. It's synchronized swimming with 1600 pounds of beast. It's the 100 empty coke cans that hold up the man because they all pull their weight evenly.
I'm with you. That was really helpful and instructive, Oak. I see your point. Thank you.

===========================================

Not sure if you saw this question: "Drew Brees average time to sack 3.63s only 2 QBS have shorter times Brady and Manning"

Yep. That does blow my mind. Where did you get that from? What this suggests is that with a great QB, you don't have to have an amazing O-line. Is that what this stat suggests?

Crusader 12-17-2013 02:33 AM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 560783)
I think its a perfect example of change for the sake of change backfiring on us.

We weren't great at run blocking in our previous man scheme, but we didn't totally suck either. So we changed to zone blocking thinking we'd improve, but we didn't, we actually got worse.

You'd think after the Spags debacle we'd learned our lesson about square pegs and round holes.
Zone is supposed to be a better scheme when you have players who are not great at man blocking in the running game. To block man you need maulers, especially in the middle but we don't have any since we lost Nicks, Faine, Goodwin etc. In the xone game you empoy a lot of double teams and cutblocks which usually makes it a better scheme for less physical linemen. I personally believe it is the implementation of the scheme that hasn't worked and not the scheme in itself.

leilung 12-17-2013 07:05 AM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
When you gut your proven linemen all in the name of saving money for a monster QB salary, you get what you get... Hate to say it but I don't really believe Drew can hold up to the pounding he's going to take in the next few weeks.

It is, what it is....

TheOak 12-17-2013 07:43 AM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WHODATINCA (Post 560924)
I'm with you. That was really helpful and instructive, Oak. I see your point. Thank you.

===========================================

Not sure if you saw this question: "Drew Brees average time to sack 3.63s only 2 QBS have shorter times Brady and Manning"

Yep. That does blow my mind. Where did you get that from? What this suggests is that with a great QB, you don't have to have an amazing O-line. Is that what this stat suggests?
The Internetz must have eaten my previous reply. :)

I honestly think that stat has nothing to do with
the line per say but it does speak to two things.

1. They all get rid of the ball very quickly and their receivers run regimented routs.

2. None of the three are exactly fleet footed. Drew can scramble and run but doesn't, Brady and Manning remind me more of new born baby giraffes than scrambling QBs.

"If" and I say "if" because it is a huge part of this statement... If the receivers are able to run their routs as they are supposed to; not getting held up at the line, and being on step... all the o-line has to do is get in the way of defenders. Some QBs throw to an open receiver, some throw to an x on the field. Go back and watch 2009 and 2010, you will see what I mean... Now come to 2013, who has the highest % of receptions made (percentage of times thrown to that a reception was made)? Kenny Stills he runs tight routes and has not lost a step.

I know I am going to get roasted for this but its my gut feeling based on what I see from our receiving corps. Meachem, Moore, Colston are getting into their 6th, 7th, and 8th seasons and they are not as healthy or fast as they were in 2009/2010. One could say I have no clue but when you look at what was brought in this year you see clones of them. Stills/Moore, Toon/Colston Toon's hands are crap, Meachem/Hendersons replacement is Morgan but he cant stay healthy.

TheOak 12-17-2013 08:15 AM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leilung (Post 560938)
When you gut your proven linemen all in the name of saving money for a monster QB salary, you get what you get... Hate to say it but I don't really believe Drew can hold up to the pounding he's going to take in the next few weeks.

It is, what it is....
Sorry but this is where the BS has to come to an end.

Lost Goodwin and Stinchcomb in 2011 - nothing to do with Drews Contract
Lost Bushrod and Nicks in 2012 -Drews Contract was at the start of 2012 and his new contract lowered his 2012 cap from 11.7M to 10.4M so Nicks was not fall out of that.

Bushrod wanted more than he was worth period.

Suck it up ladies... This was the first year Drews contract effected anyone else.

Brown is starting because Brown was hurt and came back able to start.. not because we couldn't afford anyone else. DLP was starting before Drew's contract effected our cap and so was Grubs.

This thread will be educational, like it or not.

Danno 12-17-2013 08:25 AM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 560960)
Sorry but this is where the BS has to come to an end.

Lost Goodwin and Stinchcomb in 2011 - nothing to do with Drews Contract
Lost Bushrod and Nicks in 2012 -Drews Contract was at the start of 2012 and his new contract lowered his 2012 cap from 11.7M to 10.4M so Nicks was not fall out of that.

Bushrod wanted more than he was worth period.

Suck it up ladies... This was the first year Drews contract effected anyone else.

Brown is starting because Brown was hurt and came back able to start.. not because we couldn't afford anyone else. DLP was starting before Drew's contract effected our cap and so was Grubs.

This thread will be educational, like it or not.
I think the only lineman it really affected was Nicks. But thats a two-way street. Brees' agent and Loomis couldn't get a deal worked out in time and we weren't able to franchise Nicks, or max out his deal.

So was it Drew's agent? Or was it Loomis?

Either way we still made a fair offer for Nicks, he even said so in the press. He chose to bolt for a few million more.

But yeah, the whole blame Drew's contract has to stop. If I had to blame anyone's contract I'd blame Will Smith's, Jonathan Vilma's and Roman Harper's. They added up to more cap than Drew's contract did.

Budsdrinker 12-17-2013 08:28 AM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno (Post 560966)
I think the only lineman it really affected was Nicks. But thats a two-way street. Brees' agent and Loomis couldn't get a deal worked out in time and we weren't able to franchise Nicks, or max out his deal.

So was it Drew's agent? Or was it Loomis?

Either way we still made a fair offer for Nicks, he even said so in the press. He chose to bolt for a few million more.

But yeah, the whole blame Drew's contract has to stop. If I had to blame anyone's contract I'd blame Will Smith's, Jonathan Vilma's and Roman Harper's. They added up to more cap than Drew's contract did.
I wonder if Nicks had to do it all over again after what has happened to him in Tampa if he would have stayed for a couple million less.

Danno 12-17-2013 08:30 AM
Re: Offensive Line (educational)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budsdrinker (Post 560968)
I wonder if Nicks had to do it all over again after what has happened to him in Tampa if he would have stayed for a couple million less.
I have no doubt he regrets that decision more than any he's ever made.


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