Offensive Line (educational)

TheOak · 12-16-2013, 01:06 PM

I see we do not have a lot of people that have played offensive line. Here is a little educational information that should help steer you on your mock-draft scenarios.

While Left Tackle is the most important offensive lineman for protecting the QB, there is more to the game than protecting the QB.. There is running, screens, etc... Teams starting investing high dollar in LTs when QBs because expensive.

You see, having a damn good Center takes a lot off of Drew Brees. How many delay of game penalties have we seen while Drew is making the lineman calls pre-snap?

Watch the whole video.

Is left tackle still the most important O-line position? - NFL Videos

Payton Maiining's left hand was Jeff Saturday.

Read the Roles section and think about how many LBs shoot our inside gap and get to Drew. Never picked up.

Center (American and Canadian football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Center (American and Canadian football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While LT is the most important player for protecting the QBs blind side, he gets his blocking assignment from the Center... If the Center makes the wrong call, the LT is worthless.

Yes, Charles Brown is a liability but if i am drafting on draft day and not drafting BPA, I am grabbing the best Center on the board in the first round. He will make for a better Saints o-line and allow Drew to focus where he needs to.

Where do QBs go when the pocket is collapsing around them.. They step up... Cant do that when the Center is being pushed back in your face.

rezburna · 12-16-2013, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I see we do not have a lot of people that have played offensive line. Here is a little educational information that should help steer you on your mock-draft scenarios.

While Left Tackle is the most important offensive lineman for protecting the QB, there is more to the game than protecting the QB.. There is running, screens, etc... Teams starting investing high dollar in LTs when QBs because expensive.

You see, having a damn good Center takes a lot off of Drew Brees. How many delay of game penalties have we seen while Drew is making the lineman calls pre-snap?

Watch the whole video.
Is left tackle still the most important O-line position? - NFL Videos

Payton Maiining's left hand was Jeff Saturday.

Read the Roles section and think about how many LBs shoot our inside gap and get to Drew. Never picked up.
Center (American and Canadian football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While LT is the most important player for protecting the QBs blind side, he gets his blocking assignment from the Center... If the Center makes the wrong call, the LT is worthless.

Yes, Charles Brown is a liability but if i am drafting on draft day and not drafting BPA, I am grabbing the best Center on the board in the first round. He will make for a better Saints o-line and allow Drew to focus where he needs to.

Where do QBs go when the pocket is collapsing around them.. They step up... Cant do that when the Center is being pushed back in your face.

Excellent point. I'm not too high on DLP, and never really was, but I also never considered this. Best post in a while.

Jack Vegas · 12-16-2013, 01:53 PM

In my opinion, de la Puente is not necessarily the problem. Communication is the problem. I would argue that's as much because we are constantly shuffling 4-5 different people on and off the field on every play. For road games I would like to see the offense dumbed down a little bit and keep the same personnel groupings on the field for longer stretches.

If you're talking about offensive line strictly, I would argue that both Brown and Grubbs are bigger problems than the center. Brown has been an issue all year, and while Grubbs isn't bad, he's not that great either. Certainly not worth the $9 a year contract he's getting.

lee909 · 12-16-2013, 02:03 PM

We have gone from Bushrod-Nicks to Brown-Grubbs that is a massive downgrade whatever you think of Bushrod.Nicks was able to control the left side well and help Bushrod-DLP aswell as keep his own man occupied. There has been a drop in Evans game since the Grubbs-Nicks trade too imo. DLP+Strief are cheaper options and Evans-Grubbs are not playing up to there deals.

TheOak · 12-16-2013, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jack Vegas

In my opinion, de la Puente is not necessarily the problem. Communication is the problem. I would argue that's as much because we are constantly shuffling 4-5 different people on and off the field on every play. For road games I would like to see the offense dumbed down a little bit and keep the same personnel groupings on the field for longer stretches.

If you're talking about offensive line strictly, I would argue that both Brown and Grubbs are bigger problems than the center. Brown has been an issue all year, and while Grubbs isn't bad, he's not that great either. Certainly not worth the $9 a year contract he's getting.

We have shuffled people off and on the field since Sean Payton has been here.

Alternative view... DLP not handling the calls at the LoS is the biggest issue. If he were doing that, Drew wouldn't have had multiple delay of game penalties after frikken time outs.

Here is something most do not realize... You know where we have the most rushing success? Between Brown and Grubs, Most rushing TDs between Brown and Grubs, most yards after contact and broken tackles.. between Brown and Grubs. Best two Run Blocking linemen graded till now? Brown and Grubs...

TheOak · 12-16-2013, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

We have gone from Bushrod-Nicks to Brown-Grubbs that is a massive downgrade whatever you think of Bushrod.Nicks was able to control the left side well and help Bushrod-DLP aswell as keep his own man occupied. There has been a drop in Evans game since the Grubbs-Nicks trade too imo. DLP+Strief are cheaper options and Evans-Grubbs are not playing up to there deals.

Evans and Nicks/Bushrod are opposite sides of the field brother. They do not effect each other.

Know who else we lost around the Bushrod/Nicks time frame? Jonathan Goodwin... He tied both sides together, and is presently in SF greading out at a +5 for Run Blocking while DLP is grading out at -2.7.. He did preform fairly sh1tty his last year as a Saint though.

We lost Goodwin in 2011, Nicks in 2012, Bushrod in 2013.

AlaskaSaints · 12-16-2013, 02:23 PM

Great thread, AND,

Drew is a surgeon, but he has no survival instinct. If he did he would grow legs and get the hell out of that collapsing pocket.

We do defenses a favor by allowing them to concentrate on everyone BUT Drew gaining yards by running a football.

Alaska

frankeefrank · 12-16-2013, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

We lost Goodwin in 2011, Nicks in 2012, Bushrod in 2013.

We tried to replace these guys, but hey that's football.
W'eve got a HOF caliber QB so we'll be fine.

Jack Vegas · 12-16-2013, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by TheOak

We have shuffled people off and on the field since Sean Payton has been here.

Not as much as in the last couple years. It's gotten too cute. I can understand 1-2 guys coming off regularly but it's too much. Getting 4-5 guys on the field, then setting everything up has to take a lot of time. Especially on the road, we are getting down to the wire on the play clock on a regular basis and you know that has a bad effect on timing. The offensive is unprepared at the snap, and I have a hard time believing that is all on the center. Some of it has to be due to the delay of getting all those personnel groupings in and then whatever checkdowns and audibles are going on.

MaggieMayTB · 12-16-2013, 02:42 PM

Your knowledge is beyond genius.

I am holding my breathe and stepping way from the gut punch from this weekend and The Oak, inspired me to relook at the path I started to descend because of a comment I heard on Sirus NFL about watching film.

The Oak, please accept my respect and acknowledgement of the strongest tree in the forest. My personal motto is "Age quod agis".

I have digested Pat Kerwin's book, Take Your Eye Off the Ball: How to Watch Football by Knowing Where to Look (2010). It is now my dog-eared football bible, pencil notes in the margin and water damage from relaxing in the bathtub.

I think this acquired knowledge resulted in a different NFL experience this weekend in St. Louis. I don't like how I felt walking out of Edward Jones after the game last night. I had the luxury to choose my sight lines versus being fed by Fox Sports.

I am considering NFL Rewind to dissect games.

How do you do it? Your contributions compliment / enhance what Kirwan gave me on paper.

12-16-2013, 01:27 PM	#2
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,903	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by TheOak I see we do not have a lot of people that have played offensive line. Here is a little educational information that should help steer you on your mock-draft scenarios. While Left Tackle is the most important offensive lineman for protecting the QB, there is more to the game than protecting the QB.. There is running, screens, etc... Teams starting investing high dollar in LTs when QBs because expensive. You see, having a damn good Center takes a lot off of Drew Brees. How many delay of game penalties have we seen while Drew is making the lineman calls pre-snap? Watch the whole video. Is left tackle still the most important O-line position? - NFL Videos Payton Maiining's left hand was Jeff Saturday. Read the Roles section and think about how many LBs shoot our inside gap and get to Drew. Never picked up. Center (American and Canadian football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia While LT is the most important player for protecting the QBs blind side, he gets his blocking assignment from the Center... If the Center makes the wrong call, the LT is worthless. Yes, Charles Brown is a liability but if i am drafting on draft day and not drafting BPA, I am grabbing the best Center on the board in the first round. He will make for a better Saints o-line and allow Drew to focus where he needs to. Where do QBs go when the pocket is collapsing around them.. They step up... Cant do that when the Center is being pushed back in your face. Excellent point. I'm not too high on DLP, and never really was, but I also never considered this. Best post in a while. hagan714 and TheOak like this.

12-16-2013, 01:53 PM	#3
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Offensive Line (educational) In my opinion, de la Puente is not necessarily the problem. Communication is the problem. I would argue that's as much because we are constantly shuffling 4-5 different people on and off the field on every play. For road games I would like to see the offense dumbed down a little bit and keep the same personnel groupings on the field for longer stretches. If you're talking about offensive line strictly, I would argue that both Brown and Grubbs are bigger problems than the center. Brown has been an issue all year, and while Grubbs isn't bad, he's not that great either. Certainly not worth the $9 a year contract he's getting.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

12-16-2013, 02:03 PM	#4
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Offensive Line (educational) We have gone from Bushrod-Nicks to Brown-Grubbs that is a massive downgrade whatever you think of Bushrod.Nicks was able to control the left side well and help Bushrod-DLP aswell as keep his own man occupied. There has been a drop in Evans game since the Grubbs-Nicks trade too imo. DLP+Strief are cheaper options and Evans-Grubbs are not playing up to there deals.

12-16-2013, 02:07 PM	#5
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by Jack Vegas In my opinion, de la Puente is not necessarily the problem. Communication is the problem. I would argue that's as much because we are constantly shuffling 4-5 different people on and off the field on every play. For road games I would like to see the offense dumbed down a little bit and keep the same personnel groupings on the field for longer stretches. If you're talking about offensive line strictly, I would argue that both Brown and Grubbs are bigger problems than the center. Brown has been an issue all year, and while Grubbs isn't bad, he's not that great either. Certainly not worth the $9 a year contract he's getting. We have shuffled people off and on the field since Sean Payton has been here. Alternative view... DLP not handling the calls at the LoS is the biggest issue. If he were doing that, Drew wouldn't have had multiple delay of game penalties after frikken time outs. Here is something most do not realize... You know where we have the most rushing success? Between Brown and Grubs, Most rushing TDs between Brown and Grubs, most yards after contact and broken tackles.. between Brown and Grubs. Best two Run Blocking linemen graded till now? Brown and Grubs... WhoDat2301 likes this.

12-16-2013, 02:17 PM	#6
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by lee909 We have gone from Bushrod-Nicks to Brown-Grubbs that is a massive downgrade whatever you think of Bushrod.Nicks was able to control the left side well and help Bushrod-DLP aswell as keep his own man occupied. There has been a drop in Evans game since the Grubbs-Nicks trade too imo. DLP+Strief are cheaper options and Evans-Grubbs are not playing up to there deals. Evans and Nicks/Bushrod are opposite sides of the field brother. They do not effect each other. Know who else we lost around the Bushrod/Nicks time frame? Jonathan Goodwin... He tied both sides together, and is presently in SF greading out at a +5 for Run Blocking while DLP is grading out at -2.7.. He did preform fairly sh1tty his last year as a Saint though. We lost Goodwin in 2011, Nicks in 2012, Bushrod in 2013. dueceloose and WhoDat2301 like this.
	Last edited by TheOak; 12-16-2013 at 02:21 PM..

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12-16-2013, 02:23 PM	#7
AlaskaSaints 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 2,484 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Great thread, AND, Drew is a surgeon, but he has no survival instinct. If he did he would grow legs and get the hell out of that collapsing pocket. We do defenses a favor by allowing them to concentrate on everyone BUT Drew gaining yards by running a football. Alaska

12-16-2013, 02:37 PM	#8
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by TheOak We lost Goodwin in 2011, Nicks in 2012, Bushrod in 2013. We tried to replace these guys, but hey that's football. W'eve got a HOF caliber QB so we'll be fine.
frankeefrank 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 775	Last edited by frankeefrank; 12-16-2013 at 02:37 PM.. Reason: CPU issue

12-16-2013, 02:38 PM	#9
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Originally Posted by TheOak We have shuffled people off and on the field since Sean Payton has been here. Not as much as in the last couple years. It's gotten too cute. I can understand 1-2 guys coming off regularly but it's too much. Getting 4-5 guys on the field, then setting everything up has to take a lot of time. Especially on the road, we are getting down to the wire on the play clock on a regular basis and you know that has a bad effect on timing. The offensive is unprepared at the snap, and I have a hard time believing that is all on the center. Some of it has to be due to the delay of getting all those personnel groupings in and then whatever checkdowns and audibles are going on.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

12-16-2013, 02:42 PM	#10
MaggieMayTB Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Franklin, Wisconsin (knee deep in melted cheese sauce) Posts: 615 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Offensive Line (educational) Your knowledge is beyond genius. I am holding my breathe and stepping way from the gut punch from this weekend and The Oak, inspired me to relook at the path I started to descend because of a comment I heard on Sirus NFL about watching film. The Oak, please accept my respect and acknowledgement of the strongest tree in the forest. My personal motto is "Age quod agis". I have digested Pat Kerwin's book, Take Your Eye Off the Ball: How to Watch Football by Knowing Where to Look (2010). It is now my dog-eared football bible, pencil notes in the margin and water damage from relaxing in the bathtub. I think this acquired knowledge resulted in a different NFL experience this weekend in St. Louis. I don't like how I felt walking out of Edward Jones after the game last night. I had the luxury to choose my sight lines versus being fed by Fox Sports. I am considering NFL Rewind to dissect games. How do you do it? Your contributions compliment / enhance what Kirwan gave me on paper. Danno and hagan714 like this.
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