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-   -   Who to cut (cap hits included) (https://blackandgold.com/saints/64032-who-cut-cap-hits-included.html)

FinSaint 01-26-2014 03:23 PM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Honestly, I could see the Saints being just fine with all of the suggested individuals gone, but I would like to see at least Ingram and either Sproles or Thomas back... not necessarily both. While a large staple of backs is nice, I'd like to see the Saints highlight fewer of them during a single game, so that they'd be able to get into the running game a bit better - I think this especially holds true for Ingram.

Moore is another one I'd like to see back, but I'm not entirely sure if it's more from an emotional standpoint than production versus investment. A lot depends on Toon as well, if he can actually become a contributing part of this offense then maybe Stills could take up Moore's spot, but again that's an unknown while Moore is at this point of his career a well known commodity.

I feel like Greer's time with the Saints is done, while he is/was still a great coverage CB, he has started to lack the physicality to keep up with many of the younger more physical receivers around. Add that to the effect that this latest injury may have on his long-term conditioning, and the Saints might be better of giving his roster spot to a younger player. I'd like to see Robinson given (yet) another chance to show his worth, but if the staff thinks it's time to part with him I can certainly understand the logic behind that decision as well.

And definitely keep Bunkley around - if his contract can be massaged a bit all the better, but even with the terms in place I think he is a keeper.

jeanpierre 01-26-2014 08:56 PM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 575783)
JP, If you look at it like I'm looking at it we need another bad a$$ DT up front, one that not only plays the nose in a 3-4 but can play all the front line, keep in mind 6 linemen in a 3-4 that is why I want Hageman in the 1st. As of now we have 5 really good linemen add Hagemen thats 6 and a rookie at that to bring along with Jenkins, Jordon, Hicks and Walker. I would not let Bunkley go this year either. About the lb.'s I wanted to pull the trigger on Van Noy in the 2nd but we need more help on the O line, I did mock this guy Andrew Jackson ILB because we need a thug type in the middle and if him and Rufus could be paired together in the middle over time I do't think we would have to ever worry about the run. Basically in a nut-shell what I would like to see out of our front 7 is to go thug type just like the Dome Patrol was. The pieces are almost there.

Even if we didn't have a ~20mil quarterback and other high paid veterans, you have to allocate a pie to 53 men on a roster...

You have to pick your spots...

When you look at our defensive line as a 34 front, we're two deep and very effective at each position...

Tom Johnson is a FA and will probably be replaced with an inexpensive young veteran, or an Undrafted Rookie Free Agent; though I do like the NT from Pitt as well as

That's the NFL today; finding the right formula within the salary cap budget...

We had a special year despite alot of dead money (Injured Reserve et al)...

But the question posed is "Who to cut (cap hits included)?" has mostly been answered with those that were on IR this past season understand they've been replaced already with younger, faster, stronger players...

jeanpierre 01-26-2014 09:04 PM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FinSaint (Post 575809)
Honestly, I could see the Saints being just fine with all of the suggested individuals gone, but I would like to see at least Ingram and either Sproles or Thomas back... not necessarily both. While a large staple of backs is nice, I'd like to see the Saints highlight fewer of them during a single game, so that they'd be able to get into the running game a bit better - I think this especially holds true for Ingram.


Agree, not sure we need "wholesale" change; maintain continuity...

With maybe the exception on the offensive line...

Not sure we don't already "package" or "feature" certain running backs from week to week depending on opponent...

Expect that either Sproles or Thomas to be released from their respective contracts; both a Thomas and Sproles fan, but Sproles' size, being 30+, and much slower than two years ago, plus the knee injury - he's most vulnerable...

Thomas still has the power and is the most effective running the screen (have posted ad nauseum); but Ingram is his biggest factor in returning; Ingram could be extended with his salary slot and Thomas will turn 30 this season...

blackangold 01-26-2014 10:14 PM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 575855)

Agree, not sure we need "wholesale" change; maintain continuity...

With maybe the exception on the offensive line...

Not sure we don't already "package" or "feature" certain running backs from week to week depending on opponent...

Expect that either Sproles or Thomas to be released from their respective contracts; both a Thomas and Sproles fan, but Sproles' size, being 30+, and much slower than two years ago, plus the knee injury - he's most vulnerable...

Thomas still has the power and is the most effective running the screen (have posted ad nauseum); but Ingram is his biggest factor in returning; Ingram could be extended with his salary slot and Thomas will turn 30 this season...

Thomas is most likely to be cut because he a no dwad money at all...

alleycat_126 01-26-2014 11:16 PM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blackangold (Post 575796)
Haralson plays the run very well and comes cheap.

Not as cheap as a not injury prone Rookie... He's holding a spot for somebody who could be producing, much like Travis Cadet.

Quote:

You keep Greer and Harper off of restructures.
Bush, and Vaccaro are going to be the starting safeties going into next season. You will draft another FS... You don't need Roman Harper.... The same can be said for Greer... He has had an admirable Saints career. Done more than anyone could have asked. But he wasn't a #1 corner when Tracy Porter left, and he is not a #2 corner now after the injury on the wrong side of 30. Patrick Robinson is younger, and Corey White is gonna get better by going back to slot duty... LET GO!!!!!

Quote:

As far as cutting more people; it gets really tight. What's tight about replacing people who you may not need, or are not producing.... and getting cheaper options.....



The more I think about it i don't know if we can afford to keep Graham. If we keep him we might lose 3-4 starters through cuts alone. We have had the #1 offense without Graham in the past, is he really worth it?
YES, YES, AND AGAIN YES.... worth every red ginger nickel.... We have been reaping off of him since that 3rd round selection...

hagan714 01-27-2014 07:39 AM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
the cap is a mess. super bowl hang over contracts are killing us.

Mickey has a plan i hope

draft is the best way to address a cap issue.

so sit back and watch and see what happens

TheOak 01-27-2014 08:11 AM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 575875)
the cap is a mess. super bowl hang over contracts are killing us.

Mickey has a plan i hope

draft is the best way to address a cap issue.

so sit back and watch and see what happens

No sir. We do not have anyone on a big contract due to the SB. Evans and Brees are about it and they were All-Pro, Pro-Bowl, MVPs, etc... Smiths huge contract was from 2008.

We only have 9-10 players that were even on that 2009 team.

Danno 01-27-2014 08:25 AM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 575877)
No sir. We do not have anyone on a big contract due to the SB. Evans and Brees are about it and they were All-Pro, Pro-Bowl, MVPs, etc... Smiths huge contract was from 2008.

We only have 9-10 players that were even on that 2009 team.

Thats true, but he did nail it on the draft comment. The best way to bring that cap down is to start hitting on draft picks.

We knocked it out of the ball park (and halfway across the parking lot)
in 2013. Another year or two like that and we'll be sitting pretty cap wise, even with Drews big contract.

BTW, Drew is currently the 4th highest paid QB in the league. With Newton, Wilson, Kaeppernick contracts coming up soon he'll probably drop out of the top 5. His contract amount isn't all that absurd.

TheOak 01-27-2014 08:59 AM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 575880)
Thats true, but he did nail it on the draft comment. The best way to bring that cap down is to start hitting on draft picks.

We knocked it out of the ball park (and halfway across the parking lot)
in 2013. Another year or two like that and we'll be sitting pretty cap wise, even with Drews big contract.

BTW, Drew is currently the 4th highest paid QB in the league. With Newton, Wilson, Kaeppernick contracts coming up soon he'll probably drop out of the top 5. His contract amount isn't all that absurd.


Its a catch-22 Danno. Too many draft homeruns will balloon on you especially when you make it to a SB or NFCCG. FAs are less likely to balloon on you as their market values have been pretty much set after their rookie contract.

Your examples on Kaep and Wilson prove my point which leaves a dilemma.

A. You get a good blend and maintain some retention.

B. You flood the team with youth and every three years if you are successful have to deal with high turnover because you cant fit all the outstanding players under your cap.

Its a good problem to have but still a problem none the less. In my opinion the solution is not an either, or; but a blend. The short term solution typically looks fantastic until you look at the effect long term.

Danno 01-27-2014 09:03 AM

Re: Who to cut (cap hits included)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 575883)
Its a catch-22 Danno. Too many draft homeruns will balloon on you especially when you make it to a SB or NFCCG. FAs are less likely to balloon on you as their market values have been pretty much set after their rookie contract.

Your examples on Kaep and Wilson prove my point which leaves a dilemma.

A. You get a good blend and maintain some retention.

B. You flood the team with youth and every three years if you are successful have to deal with high turnover because you cant fit all the outstanding players under your cap.

Its a good problem to have but still a problem none the less. In my opinion the solution is not an either, or; but a blend. The short term solution typically looks fantastic until you look at the effect long term.

Good points, and its also why every team needs solid role players. Role players won't break the bank and help maintain continuity year to year. You can't afford to have an all-pro at every position.


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