What I think really happened ...

NonieT · 12-27-2014, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

Our next center is already on the roster, his name is Tim Lelito... Kid can play when given the chance... He starts next year, after Goodwin is shown the door

That's all well and good but we still need someone to back him up, and the other guy on the roster that's backup center isn't gonna cut it. I forget his name.

spkb25 · 12-27-2014, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Good reasons all. personally I think the main reasons were

1. The D-line regressed significantly, giving opposing QB's all day to throw. I think the coaches thought that would be one area that actually improved over last year, but it failed miserably. No name QB's picked us apart all year.

2. The plan for the #2 CB spot backfired. We though Champ had another year in him, and if not either PRob or White would step up and perform well. It didn't happen. Combine that with reason 1 above and you have the recipe for disaster we saw this year. It was fugly.

3. The O-line was weaker in the middle than we expected. Evans, Goodwin and Grubbs were all worse than they were last year. I don't think the coaches thought they'd decline so fast. Brees is at his best when he can step up and launch. He had to avoid way too much pass rush from all directions.

Excellent observations!

lee909 · 12-27-2014, 09:46 AM

For as bad as it has been lets not forget that though we have a record of 6-9, 5(2 in OT) of our loses we lost by a combined 16pts. We couldnt win the close games this year but that is expected with a young team. Freshen up the line and the depth on the front 7 for good rotation and we will be back to 10/11+ win seasons in no time. The loss last week looks bigger on paper than it was,its was 20-14 with 2:40 on the clock with Brees driving for a go ahead TD before the pick.

vtiger72 · 12-27-2014, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Saintaintso

First let me state that some of these are totally up to speculation and I have no inside source within the building.

1. Brees played hurt most of this year. Obliques can be a testy thing , one moment you can throw a 90 mile an hour fastball and feel fine . You sit awkwardly on the couch and boom.

2. Graham significantly injured and kept reinjuring his shoulder. I don't even think he was at 60% this season. He was a decoy for a reason ..

3. We lost the best player on our defense. Byrd didn't look all pro by any means in his first few starts , but a pro of that caliber doesn't stay down. He would've led this secondary along with Warren on a tear. All those 3rd and 30s would be a done deal with him there.

4. We lost our most explosive weapon on offense. Ingram aside , Cooks was the best guy on offense this year.

5. We lost our Muscle in the secondary when bush went down. Regardless of how he covered , nobody dared run a foolish route into the deep middle with bush lurking. See Edelman hit again.

6. Westbank was bothered by a nagging injury. Our best corner #3 in the league by my watch was always hobbling , even shutting down boldin DAMN there crawlings between plays.

7. Ingram was hurt too. We didn't miss all that much of a beat because Robinson is a workhorse, but Ingram undoubtedly opened everyobe up down field. He would've gotten into an even better groove this year.

8. Greer was far more important to this defense than anyone will care to admit. You can say loss of leadership with the big 4 leaving town took an affect , sure to some extent. But Greer shut things down opposite of Westbank which provided Cam and Galette with that much needed extra second to get there.

While there's some truth to this, there is also truth in the old Parcells quote, "You are who you're record says you are." Your post does lend some optimism for the future, but many underperforming teams could come up with a similar list.

There are some questions that we have to ask, but will not know the answer to until next season:

1. Was Brees playing hurt or is he simply showing the declining abilities that age eventually brings to everyone? He may still throw for 5000 yds this season, so that gives hope, but I think everyone realized something was off with Brees this season. A better Brees is necessary if the Saints want to return to dominance.

2. What is wrong with Graham? Was it the shoulder injury, have teams discovered how to defense him, or did the contract create a fat cat syndrome? Time will tell.

3. Which defense 2013 or 2014 is closest to what to expect for 2015? Byrd needs to be what he was signed to be and Galette is going to have to play to his contract. There just isn't much cap space for new players, so those here will have to play better.

Rugby Saint II · 12-27-2014, 05:46 PM

There is no one thing I can put my finger on why this season tanked so badly. Everyone from bng was pretty much spot on about their analysis. I love this thread.

It started last season with losing Greer......we never recovered. And going into this season with P Roblem and White competing against Bailey and a raw draft pick for our starting #2 CB position was foolish. We don't develop defensive players well.

In the offseason we over reached with Byrd and Bailey then let veteran leadership go.

There was a pitiful attempt at fixing the center position. No attempt to fix the ILB'ers.....and an obvious bad evaluation of talent across the board.

The draft netted a good player that wound up injured but it cost us an additional third round draft pick. Besides that I have not seen much from this years draft. Too many reaches that didn't pan out.

We started the grueling training camp at the hell hole called Greenbriar. The team started slowly after that.

Drew tore his oblique and he never recovered totally from that. His timing has been off every since(scary thing is the whole team chemistry was off after that too). Even at OTA's we started losing players and then we started losing key players at an alarming rate.

We didn't upgrade the O-line and it showed that we have been draft heavy defensively because of the lack of depth.

No fresh ideas from any coaches.

The locker room died.

Too many people feeling over confident.............including everyone from players to FO.

Hydrate hydrate hydrate but stop drinking the damn Kool-Aid!

More injuries!

RailBoss · 12-27-2014, 06:20 PM

I think for Brees it was that Vikings game when Munnerlyn flipped him on his head. Things were never right after that game.

gulfgambler · 12-27-2014, 07:02 PM

We had a major can of woopass poured on us in every game in the trenches!!!!!!!!!! While I agree with your assessment of players playing with injuries, every team came make that claim. That is also another reason Sean doesn't discuss injuries. Every team in the playoffs this year has had to deal injuries. We are not a playoff team for 3 reasons, none have to do with injuries that other teams haven't dealt with. 1) Unable to create take aways. 2) No pressure on opposition QB"s; as a result opposing teams making 3rd and long. 3) Not protecting Drew.

foreverfan · 12-27-2014, 09:54 PM

K Major · 12-27-2014, 10:14 PM

While I was in Metarie visiting, I decided to attend the early morning training camp which was open to the public however 10 minutes prior to the start we were told it had been cancelled due to weather

It was down hill from there on out.

NOLA54 · 12-27-2014, 10:26 PM

Here's something to think about. In the last 3 years we have had 2 loosing seasons and we haven't won the division since 2011. Is the problem deeper than we think?

12-27-2014, 12:38 PM	#1
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921	Re: What I think really happened ... Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| Our next center is already on the roster, his name is Tim Lelito... Kid can play when given the chance... He starts next year, after Goodwin is shown the door That's all well and good but we still need someone to back him up, and the other guy on the roster that's backup center isn't gonna cut it. I forget his name.
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921

12-27-2014, 09:46 AM	#3
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,860 Blog Entries: 1	Re: What I think really happened ... For as bad as it has been lets not forget that though we have a record of 6-9, 5(2 in OT) of our loses we lost by a combined 16pts. We couldnt win the close games this year but that is expected with a young team. Freshen up the line and the depth on the front 7 for good rotation and we will be back to 10/11+ win seasons in no time. The loss last week looks bigger on paper than it was,its was 20-14 with 2:40 on the clock with Brees driving for a go ahead TD before the pick.
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

12-27-2014, 10:01 AM	#4
vtiger72 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 185	Re: What I think really happened ... Originally Posted by Saintaintso First let me state that some of these are totally up to speculation and I have no inside source within the building. 1. Brees played hurt most of this year. Obliques can be a testy thing , one moment you can throw a 90 mile an hour fastball and feel fine . You sit awkwardly on the couch and boom. 2. Graham significantly injured and kept reinjuring his shoulder. I don't even think he was at 60% this season. He was a decoy for a reason .. 3. We lost the best player on our defense. Byrd didn't look all pro by any means in his first few starts , but a pro of that caliber doesn't stay down. He would've led this secondary along with Warren on a tear. All those 3rd and 30s would be a done deal with him there. 4. We lost our most explosive weapon on offense. Ingram aside , Cooks was the best guy on offense this year. 5. We lost our Muscle in the secondary when bush went down. Regardless of how he covered , nobody dared run a foolish route into the deep middle with bush lurking. See Edelman hit again. 6. Westbank was bothered by a nagging injury. Our best corner #3 in the league by my watch was always hobbling , even shutting down boldin DAMN there crawlings between plays. 7. Ingram was hurt too. We didn't miss all that much of a beat because Robinson is a workhorse, but Ingram undoubtedly opened everyobe up down field. He would've gotten into an even better groove this year. 8. Greer was far more important to this defense than anyone will care to admit. You can say loss of leadership with the big 4 leaving town took an affect , sure to some extent. But Greer shut things down opposite of Westbank which provided Cam and Galette with that much needed extra second to get there. While there's some truth to this, there is also truth in the old Parcells quote, "You are who you're record says you are." Your post does lend some optimism for the future, but many underperforming teams could come up with a similar list. There are some questions that we have to ask, but will not know the answer to until next season: 1. Was Brees playing hurt or is he simply showing the declining abilities that age eventually brings to everyone? He may still throw for 5000 yds this season, so that gives hope, but I think everyone realized something was off with Brees this season. A better Brees is necessary if the Saints want to return to dominance. 2. What is wrong with Graham? Was it the shoulder injury, have teams discovered how to defense him, or did the contract create a fat cat syndrome? Time will tell. 3. Which defense 2013 or 2014 is closest to what to expect for 2015? Byrd needs to be what he was signed to be and Galette is going to have to play to his contract. There just isn't much cap space for new players, so those here will have to play better.
vtiger72 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 185

12-27-2014, 05:46 PM	#5
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,133	Re: What I think really happened ... There is no one thing I can put my finger on why this season tanked so badly. Everyone from bng was pretty much spot on about their analysis. I love this thread. It started last season with losing Greer......we never recovered. And going into this season with P Roblem and White competing against Bailey and a raw draft pick for our starting #2 CB position was foolish. We don't develop defensive players well. In the offseason we over reached with Byrd and Bailey then let veteran leadership go. There was a pitiful attempt at fixing the center position. No attempt to fix the ILB'ers.....and an obvious bad evaluation of talent across the board. The draft netted a good player that wound up injured but it cost us an additional third round draft pick. Besides that I have not seen much from this years draft. Too many reaches that didn't pan out. We started the grueling training camp at the hell hole called Greenbriar. The team started slowly after that. Drew tore his oblique and he never recovered totally from that. His timing has been off every since(scary thing is the whole team chemistry was off after that too). Even at OTA's we started losing players and then we started losing key players at an alarming rate. We didn't upgrade the O-line and it showed that we have been draft heavy defensively because of the lack of depth. No fresh ideas from any coaches. The locker room died. Too many people feeling over confident.............including everyone from players to FO. Hydrate hydrate hydrate but stop drinking the damn Kool-Aid! More injuries! hagan714 likes this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

12-27-2014, 06:20 PM	#6
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: What I think really happened ... I think for Brees it was that Vikings game when Munnerlyn flipped him on his head. Things were never right after that game. hagan714 likes this.

12-27-2014, 09:57 PM	#2
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,123	Re: What I think really happened ... Originally Posted by Danno Good reasons all. personally I think the main reasons were 1. The D-line regressed significantly, giving opposing QB's all day to throw. I think the coaches thought that would be one area that actually improved over last year, but it failed miserably. No name QB's picked us apart all year. 2. The plan for the #2 CB spot backfired. We though Champ had another year in him, and if not either PRob or White would step up and perform well. It didn't happen. Combine that with reason 1 above and you have the recipe for disaster we saw this year. It was fugly. 3. The O-line was weaker in the middle than we expected. Evans, Goodwin and Grubbs were all worse than they were last year. I don't think the coaches thought they'd decline so fast. Brees is at his best when he can step up and launch. He had to avoid way too much pass rush from all directions. Excellent observations!

12-27-2014, 07:02 PM	#7
gulfgambler Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Tomball Posts: 1,097	Re: What I think really happened ... We had a major can of woopass poured on us in every game in the trenches!!!!!!!!!! While I agree with your assessment of players playing with injuries, every team came make that claim. That is also another reason Sean doesn't discuss injuries. Every team in the playoffs this year has had to deal injuries. We are not a playoff team for 3 reasons, none have to do with injuries that other teams haven't dealt with. 1) Unable to create take aways. 2) No pressure on opposition QB"s; as a result opposing teams making 3rd and long. 3) Not protecting Drew. hagan714 and foreverfan like this.

12-27-2014, 09:54 PM	#8
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: What I think really happened ... hagan714 and gulfgambler like this.

12-27-2014, 10:14 PM	#9
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,797 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What I think really happened ... While I was in Metarie visiting, I decided to attend the early morning training camp which was open to the public however 10 minutes prior to the start we were told it had been cancelled due to weather It was down hill from there on out. hagan714 likes this.

12-27-2014, 10:26 PM	#10
NOLA54 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,708 Blog Entries: 1	Re: What I think really happened ... Here's something to think about. In the last 3 years we have had 2 loosing seasons and we haven't won the division since 2011. Is the problem deeper than we think? hagan714 and Saintaintso like this.

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