What I think really happened ...

Saintaintso · 12-26-2014, 02:17 AM

First let me state that some of these are totally up to speculation and I have no inside source within the building.

1. Brees played hurt most of this year. Obliques can be a testy thing , one moment you can throw a 90 mile an hour fastball and feel fine . You sit awkwardly on the couch and boom.

2. Graham significantly injured and kept reinjuring his shoulder. I don't even think he was at 60% this season. He was a decoy for a reason ..

3. We lost the best player on our defense. Byrd didn't look all pro by any means in his first few starts , but a pro of that caliber doesn't stay down. He would've led this secondary along with Warren on a tear. All those 3rd and 30s would be a done deal with him there.

4. We lost our most explosive weapon on offense. Ingram aside , Cooks was the best guy on offense this year.

5. We lost our Muscle in the secondary when bush went down. Regardless of how he covered , nobody dared run a foolish route into the deep middle with bush lurking. See Edelman hit again.

6. Westbank was bothered by a nagging injury. Our best corner #3 in the league by my watch was always hobbling , even shutting down boldin DAMN there crawlings between plays.

7. Ingram was hurt too. We didn't miss all that much of a beat because Robinson is a workhorse, but Ingram undoubtedly opened everyobe up down field. He would've gotten into an even better groove this year.

8. Greer was far more important to this defense than anyone will care to admit. You can say loss of leadership with the big 4 leaving town took an affect , sure to some extent. But Greer shut things down opposite of Westbank which provided Cam and Galette with that much needed extra second to get there.

foreverfan · 12-26-2014, 07:08 AM

I also think that the reason we lost at home and won on the road was obvious too.

Superdome crowd noise is usually a plus but it also has an effect on defense too. The home crowd noise was to our detriment at home. Our young defense couldn't here anything.

Just look at road games in which the defense looked better each game and could better because of road noise levels. On the road, our defense played much better.

MatthewT · 12-26-2014, 07:25 AM

Excellent observations!!!

I agree that Brees was hurting, after the bye week it did appear as if his velocity returned closer to normal.

I get that Graham had a bum shoulder, the issues I have with Graham are numerous. Without getting into it all right now, the biggest issue in my opinion for now is the Saints have not fully replaced Devery Henderson and Lance Moore yet, and now Colston is sliding off big time. Cooks and Stills both look promising, but they are not in the same league as Henderson or Moore yet, give them time, maybe. What that all means is Graham will consistently draw top cover guys on him until someone else becomes the prime threat on the team.

NonieT · 12-26-2014, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Saintaintso

First let me state that some of these are totally up to speculation and I have no inside source within the building.

1. Brees played hurt most of this year. Obliques can be a testy thing , one moment you can throw a 90 mile an hour fastball and feel fine . You sit awkwardly on the couch and boom.

2. Graham significantly injured and kept reinjuring his shoulder. I don't even think he was at 60% this season. He was a decoy for a reason ..

3. We lost the best player on our defense. Byrd didn't look all pro by any means in his first few starts , but a pro of that caliber doesn't stay down. He would've led this secondary along with Warren on a tear. All those 3rd and 30s would be a done deal with him there.

4. We lost our most explosive weapon on offense. Ingram aside , Cooks was the best guy on offense this year.

5. We lost our Muscle in the secondary when bush went down. Regardless of how he covered , nobody dared run a foolish route into the deep middle with bush lurking. See Edelman hit again.

6. Westbank was bothered by a nagging injury. Our best corner #3 in the league by my watch was always hobbling , even shutting down boldin DAMN there crawlings between plays.

7. Ingram was hurt too. We didn't miss all that much of a beat because Robinson is a workhorse, but Ingram undoubtedly opened everyobe up down field. He would've gotten into an even better groove this year.

8. Greer was far more important to this defense than anyone will care to admit. You can say loss of leadership with the big 4 leaving town took an affect , sure to some extent. But Greer shut things down opposite of Westbank which provided Cam and Galette with that much needed extra second to get there.

I agree with everything you said, but I also believe some guys on the defensive side were reading their own press clippings. Thought they could get by on talent alone and forgot about hustle. On the offensive side, fix the line and you'll probably fix everything else.

dizzle88 · 12-26-2014, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by NonieT

I agree with everything you said, but I also believe some guys on the defensive side were reading their own press clippings. Thought they could get by on talent alone and forgot about hustle. On the offensive side, fix the line and you'll probably fix everything else.

Exactly right

Cam Jordan, Akiem Hicks and Junior Galette were guilty of doing that

Galette got embarrassed by a rookie OL after saying "that's my newest victim" when the falcons drafted him.

westbankdaze · 12-27-2014, 08:41 AM

We need some real linebackers too

halloween 65 · 12-27-2014, 09:59 AM

I offer no excuses for the drop-off, it should always be next man up, we got out coached at times, we were lost at times and were horrible on both sided of the ball most of the time. By the 6th game of the season we should have been tuned in. I thought 11-5 was a pretty safe pick going into the season but watching the O being up and down and the D basically looking like pee-wee football players running around out there. I knew we were in trouble I just didn't know how much, well now I do. Tampa will be ready with all they can give and I don't expect us to come out and just lay down. Either we go 6-10 or 7-9. Our O is no where near the quick-strike O it has been and our D well I would rather not go there. Lots ande lots of flaws to be fixed but 1 thing I will add the kool-aid I drank this year want be drank so fast next season. I'll sip mine.

Danno · 12-27-2014, 10:39 AM

Good reasons all. personally I think the main reasons were

1. The D-line regressed significantly, giving opposing QB's all day to throw. I think the coaches thought that would be one area that actually improved over last year, but it failed miserably. No name QB's picked us apart all year.

2. The plan for the #2 CB spot backfired. We though Champ had another year in him, and if not either PRob or White would step up and perform well. It didn't happen. Combine that with reason 1 above and you have the recipe for disaster we saw this year. It was fugly.

3. The O-line was weaker in the middle than we expected. Evans, Goodwin and Grubbs were all worse than they were last year. I don't think the coaches thought they'd decline so fast. Brees is at his best when he can step up and launch. He had to avoid way too much pass rush from all directions.

lee909 · 12-27-2014, 10:46 AM

For as bad as it has been lets not forget that though we have a record of 6-9, 5(2 in OT) of our loses we lost by a combined 16pts. We couldnt win the close games this year but that is expected with a young team. Freshen up the line and the depth on the front 7 for good rotation and we will be back to 10/11+ win seasons in no time. The loss last week looks bigger on paper than it was,its was 20-14 with 2:40 on the clock with Brees driving for a go ahead TD before the pick.

vtiger72 · 12-27-2014, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Saintaintso

First let me state that some of these are totally up to speculation and I have no inside source within the building.

1. Brees played hurt most of this year. Obliques can be a testy thing , one moment you can throw a 90 mile an hour fastball and feel fine . You sit awkwardly on the couch and boom.

2. Graham significantly injured and kept reinjuring his shoulder. I don't even think he was at 60% this season. He was a decoy for a reason ..

3. We lost the best player on our defense. Byrd didn't look all pro by any means in his first few starts , but a pro of that caliber doesn't stay down. He would've led this secondary along with Warren on a tear. All those 3rd and 30s would be a done deal with him there.

4. We lost our most explosive weapon on offense. Ingram aside , Cooks was the best guy on offense this year.

5. We lost our Muscle in the secondary when bush went down. Regardless of how he covered , nobody dared run a foolish route into the deep middle with bush lurking. See Edelman hit again.

6. Westbank was bothered by a nagging injury. Our best corner #3 in the league by my watch was always hobbling , even shutting down boldin DAMN there crawlings between plays.

7. Ingram was hurt too. We didn't miss all that much of a beat because Robinson is a workhorse, but Ingram undoubtedly opened everyobe up down field. He would've gotten into an even better groove this year.

8. Greer was far more important to this defense than anyone will care to admit. You can say loss of leadership with the big 4 leaving town took an affect , sure to some extent. But Greer shut things down opposite of Westbank which provided Cam and Galette with that much needed extra second to get there.

While there's some truth to this, there is also truth in the old Parcells quote, "You are who you're record says you are." Your post does lend some optimism for the future, but many underperforming teams could come up with a similar list.

There are some questions that we have to ask, but will not know the answer to until next season:

1. Was Brees playing hurt or is he simply showing the declining abilities that age eventually brings to everyone? He may still throw for 5000 yds this season, so that gives hope, but I think everyone realized something was off with Brees this season. A better Brees is necessary if the Saints want to return to dominance.

2. What is wrong with Graham? Was it the shoulder injury, have teams discovered how to defense him, or did the contract create a fat cat syndrome? Time will tell.

3. Which defense 2013 or 2014 is closest to what to expect for 2015? Byrd needs to be what he was signed to be and Galette is going to have to play to his contract. There just isn't much cap space for new players, so those here will have to play better.

12-26-2014, 02:17 AM	#1
Saintaintso 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 937	What I think really happened ... First let me state that some of these are totally up to speculation and I have no inside source within the building. 1. Brees played hurt most of this year. Obliques can be a testy thing , one moment you can throw a 90 mile an hour fastball and feel fine . You sit awkwardly on the couch and boom. 2. Graham significantly injured and kept reinjuring his shoulder. I don't even think he was at 60% this season. He was a decoy for a reason .. 3. We lost the best player on our defense. Byrd didn't look all pro by any means in his first few starts , but a pro of that caliber doesn't stay down. He would've led this secondary along with Warren on a tear. All those 3rd and 30s would be a done deal with him there. 4. We lost our most explosive weapon on offense. Ingram aside , Cooks was the best guy on offense this year. 5. We lost our Muscle in the secondary when bush went down. Regardless of how he covered , nobody dared run a foolish route into the deep middle with bush lurking. See Edelman hit again. 6. Westbank was bothered by a nagging injury. Our best corner #3 in the league by my watch was always hobbling , even shutting down boldin DAMN there crawlings between plays. 7. Ingram was hurt too. We didn't miss all that much of a beat because Robinson is a workhorse, but Ingram undoubtedly opened everyobe up down field. He would've gotten into an even better groove this year. 8. Greer was far more important to this defense than anyone will care to admit. You can say loss of leadership with the big 4 leaving town took an affect , sure to some extent. But Greer shut things down opposite of Westbank which provided Cam and Galette with that much needed extra second to get there. jnormand, MatthewT, hagan714 and 6 others like this.
Saintaintso 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 937	You Can't Say Impossible without first saying Im Possible ...

12-26-2014, 07:08 AM	#2
foreverfan 12,000 BS Posts Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 13,457 Blog Entries: 5	Re: What I think really happened ... I also think that the reason we lost at home and won on the road was obvious too. Superdome crowd noise is usually a plus but it also has an effect on defense too. The home crowd noise was to our detriment at home. Our young defense couldn't here anything. Just look at road games in which the defense looked better each game and could better because of road noise levels. On the road, our defense played much better. MatthewT, RailBoss and captainshawn like this.
	Last edited by foreverfan; 12-26-2014 at 01:09 PM..

12-26-2014, 07:36 AM	#4
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921	Re: What I think really happened ... Originally Posted by Saintaintso First let me state that some of these are totally up to speculation and I have no inside source within the building. 1. Brees played hurt most of this year. Obliques can be a testy thing , one moment you can throw a 90 mile an hour fastball and feel fine . You sit awkwardly on the couch and boom. 2. Graham significantly injured and kept reinjuring his shoulder. I don't even think he was at 60% this season. He was a decoy for a reason .. 3. We lost the best player on our defense. Byrd didn't look all pro by any means in his first few starts , but a pro of that caliber doesn't stay down. He would've led this secondary along with Warren on a tear. All those 3rd and 30s would be a done deal with him there. 4. We lost our most explosive weapon on offense. Ingram aside , Cooks was the best guy on offense this year. 5. We lost our Muscle in the secondary when bush went down. Regardless of how he covered , nobody dared run a foolish route into the deep middle with bush lurking. See Edelman hit again. 6. Westbank was bothered by a nagging injury. Our best corner #3 in the league by my watch was always hobbling , even shutting down boldin DAMN there crawlings between plays. 7. Ingram was hurt too. We didn't miss all that much of a beat because Robinson is a workhorse, but Ingram undoubtedly opened everyobe up down field. He would've gotten into an even better groove this year. 8. Greer was far more important to this defense than anyone will care to admit. You can say loss of leadership with the big 4 leaving town took an affect , sure to some extent. But Greer shut things down opposite of Westbank which provided Cam and Galette with that much needed extra second to get there. I agree with everything you said, but I also believe some guys on the defensive side were reading their own press clippings. Thought they could get by on talent alone and forgot about hustle. On the offensive side, fix the line and you'll probably fix everything else. MatthewT, dizzle88 and captainshawn like this.
NonieT 500th Post Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 921

12-26-2014, 07:39 AM	#5
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: What I think really happened ... Originally Posted by NonieT I agree with everything you said, but I also believe some guys on the defensive side were reading their own press clippings. Thought they could get by on talent alone and forgot about hustle. On the offensive side, fix the line and you'll probably fix everything else. Exactly right Cam Jordan, Akiem Hicks and Junior Galette were guilty of doing that Galette got embarrassed by a rookie OL after saying "that's my newest victim" when the falcons drafted him. Rugby Saint II and VegasSaint9 like this.

12-27-2014, 08:41 AM	#6
westbankdaze 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 843	Re: What I think really happened ... We need some real linebackers too K Major likes this.
westbankdaze 500th Post Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 843

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12-26-2014, 07:25 AM	#3
MatthewT 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,729	Re: What I think really happened ... Excellent observations!!! I agree that Brees was hurting, after the bye week it did appear as if his velocity returned closer to normal. I get that Graham had a bum shoulder, the issues I have with Graham are numerous. Without getting into it all right now, the biggest issue in my opinion for now is the Saints have not fully replaced Devery Henderson and Lance Moore yet, and now Colston is sliding off big time. Cooks and Stills both look promising, but they are not in the same league as Henderson or Moore yet, give them time, maybe. What that all means is Graham will consistently draw top cover guys on him until someone else becomes the prime threat on the team.

12-27-2014, 09:59 AM	#7
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: What I think really happened ... I offer no excuses for the drop-off, it should always be next man up, we got out coached at times, we were lost at times and were horrible on both sided of the ball most of the time. By the 6th game of the season we should have been tuned in. I thought 11-5 was a pretty safe pick going into the season but watching the O being up and down and the D basically looking like pee-wee football players running around out there. I knew we were in trouble I just didn't know how much, well now I do. Tampa will be ready with all they can give and I don't expect us to come out and just lay down. Either we go 6-10 or 7-9. Our O is no where near the quick-strike O it has been and our D well I would rather not go there. Lots ande lots of flaws to be fixed but 1 thing I will add the kool-aid I drank this year want be drank so fast next season. I'll sip mine.

12-27-2014, 10:39 AM	#8
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: What I think really happened ... Good reasons all. personally I think the main reasons were 1. The D-line regressed significantly, giving opposing QB's all day to throw. I think the coaches thought that would be one area that actually improved over last year, but it failed miserably. No name QB's picked us apart all year. 2. The plan for the #2 CB spot backfired. We though Champ had another year in him, and if not either PRob or White would step up and perform well. It didn't happen. Combine that with reason 1 above and you have the recipe for disaster we saw this year. It was fugly. 3. The O-line was weaker in the middle than we expected. Evans, Goodwin and Grubbs were all worse than they were last year. I don't think the coaches thought they'd decline so fast. Brees is at his best when he can step up and launch. He had to avoid way too much pass rush from all directions. spkb25, Rugby Saint II, dizzle88 and 1 others like this.

12-27-2014, 10:46 AM	#9
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: What I think really happened ... For as bad as it has been lets not forget that though we have a record of 6-9, 5(2 in OT) of our loses we lost by a combined 16pts. We couldnt win the close games this year but that is expected with a young team. Freshen up the line and the depth on the front 7 for good rotation and we will be back to 10/11+ win seasons in no time. The loss last week looks bigger on paper than it was,its was 20-14 with 2:40 on the clock with Brees driving for a go ahead TD before the pick.
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

12-27-2014, 11:01 AM	#10
vtiger72 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 185	Re: What I think really happened ... Originally Posted by Saintaintso First let me state that some of these are totally up to speculation and I have no inside source within the building. 1. Brees played hurt most of this year. Obliques can be a testy thing , one moment you can throw a 90 mile an hour fastball and feel fine . You sit awkwardly on the couch and boom. 2. Graham significantly injured and kept reinjuring his shoulder. I don't even think he was at 60% this season. He was a decoy for a reason .. 3. We lost the best player on our defense. Byrd didn't look all pro by any means in his first few starts , but a pro of that caliber doesn't stay down. He would've led this secondary along with Warren on a tear. All those 3rd and 30s would be a done deal with him there. 4. We lost our most explosive weapon on offense. Ingram aside , Cooks was the best guy on offense this year. 5. We lost our Muscle in the secondary when bush went down. Regardless of how he covered , nobody dared run a foolish route into the deep middle with bush lurking. See Edelman hit again. 6. Westbank was bothered by a nagging injury. Our best corner #3 in the league by my watch was always hobbling , even shutting down boldin DAMN there crawlings between plays. 7. Ingram was hurt too. We didn't miss all that much of a beat because Robinson is a workhorse, but Ingram undoubtedly opened everyobe up down field. He would've gotten into an even better groove this year. 8. Greer was far more important to this defense than anyone will care to admit. You can say loss of leadership with the big 4 leaving town took an affect , sure to some extent. But Greer shut things down opposite of Westbank which provided Cam and Galette with that much needed extra second to get there. While there's some truth to this, there is also truth in the old Parcells quote, "You are who you're record says you are." Your post does lend some optimism for the future, but many underperforming teams could come up with a similar list. There are some questions that we have to ask, but will not know the answer to until next season: 1. Was Brees playing hurt or is he simply showing the declining abilities that age eventually brings to everyone? He may still throw for 5000 yds this season, so that gives hope, but I think everyone realized something was off with Brees this season. A better Brees is necessary if the Saints want to return to dominance. 2. What is wrong with Graham? Was it the shoulder injury, have teams discovered how to defense him, or did the contract create a fat cat syndrome? Time will tell. 3. Which defense 2013 or 2014 is closest to what to expect for 2015? Byrd needs to be what he was signed to be and Galette is going to have to play to his contract. There just isn't much cap space for new players, so those here will have to play better.
vtiger72 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 185

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