We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S.

baronm · 01-27-2005, 12:14 PM

I say we get fred smoot for the cornerback positon draft davis as a safety and if we can grab johnson or one of the top linebakers with our first--we need a playmaking linebacker that can give us depth, we need a safety that can hit and cover, and we need a cornerback--fred smoot in FA, draft lb and safety early..focus the rest of our picks on o line, backupqb and backup rb.

JKool · 01-27-2005, 12:23 PM

Danno, I think I remember you pointing out Watson\'s weight to me before - I\'ve always respected your view when it comes to player knowledge. What I meant was, and I should have said it better, is that he plays small. He backs up, he doesn\'t stick guys that often (he is a solid tackler though), and he\'s not so good at blowing up blocks. So, I guess we agree - he needs to be stronger (which is all that I meant). Good to point that out though, it was my fault for not saying what I meant very clearly.

T-R, nice point about Grant. I suggested around mid-season that we employ a defense that allows him to rush more often (where he has less gap responsibility), what do you think about that?

Also, I had never really considered the 2TEs as as help for the Ts. I don\'t think that is true, as Gandy is a true LT, and was considered a very fine replacement for Roaf by many in the industry when we got him. He\'s just getting older. However, your suggestion is an interesting one - I\'ll consider further.

baronm, I couldn\'t agree more! A CB and a playmaker LB would improve our defense a good deal. I still am not convince that we NEED a Safety. IMO Tebucky isn\'t that bad (not great mind you), and Mitchell still has a chance to be good (though little evidence is forthcoming for that).

baronm · 01-27-2005, 12:54 PM

if the Saints could get at least one solid tackle who doesn\'t need constant help to cover his side, , either left or right, it would be a great improvement...

or it would allow us to utilize the te more in our offense.

Danno · 01-27-2005, 02:28 PM

baronm, I couldn\'t agree more! A CB and a playmaker LB would improve our defense a good deal. I still am not convince that we NEED a Safety.

Kool, I agree with the LB part. But a CB is now way down on my list now.
I think the positions to upgrade that would impact this defense the most are...

1. SLB. I dont care how good Allen played down the stretch, the way he played the 1st half is enought to convince me we need help.

2. WLB. A Rookie 7th rounder claimed this spot by seasons end. Enough said. If they decide to move Watson here replace WLB with MLB.

3. DT. A solid 2-gap DT would allow Young to do what he does best. Shoot his gap and disrupt the backfield. He doesn\'t have to be the high-dollar stat guy, just a good run stuffing gap clogger.

4. FS. A ball hawking FS would be the icing on the cake if 1 thru 3 are done. Our CB\'s are solid enough and I think between Mitchell and Bellamy the need at SS falls below FS for now.

5. SS. Bellamy is aging, and Mitchell is still a relative unknown. I\'d like to see anouther youngster brought in to compete with Mitchell.

6.CB. The final piece of the puzzle and the last position I\'d address on defense. Another young CB to start grooming would be nice though.

shadowdrinker · 01-27-2005, 03:00 PM

LOL shadow... yet you approve of Colby B. a 7th rounder being in our starting lineup... don\'t contradict yourself buddy... GAMEOVER!

First of all..I think you are getting a little carried away , I do approve of Bockwoldt..a 7th rounder that has come in here..and this is the key word for the day...PRODUCED..he played in only 10 games this year..and has allready piled up more tackles than Mitchell has in 3 years...and I know your going to scream about injury..But..Injury has never been an excuse for any player , or coach..ever...I\'m not going to sit here and compare Bockwoldt to Ray Lewis...Like you compare Mitchell to Rodney Harrison...Bockwoldt came in..produced..and earned a spot...good for him...I hope he does well..

Mitchell couldn\'t get his spot back this year...because he wasn\'t better than Bellamy..period...get over it...

I fail to see where I contradict myself...

Ask David Carr ROFLROFLROFL... about what? About how anyone can get to him with that poor line forcing him to make bad decisions? What is that going to prove lol!

I guess you missed the Texans game where Bellamy got his ankles broke by Carr on that TD run..it was horriblly embarrasing..it was shown over, and over by every sports show...everybody was laughing about it..even Bellamy\'s own teamates

ONCE AGAIN BELLAMY WAS BEATEN OUT FOR THE JOB... REPEAT HE WAS BEATEN OUT FOR THE JOB... REPEAT HE WAS BEATEN OUT FOR THE JOB... so obviously he isn\'t a project and people on the staff knows he has the talent...

How many games has Mitchell started at Safety?....He was healthy this year...well?...how many?...

Stop contradicting yourself buddy and maybe anything you say I\'ll take you a little more seriously. Otherwise LOL! what a funny guy!

let me ask you a few questions about things you have said...since you are so willing to try to disprove whatever I say...let\'s begin..shall we...

\'\'He is bigger than Jones and Bellamy, as fast as Jones, and tackles better than both of them.

How can you prove that?...How do you know how well he can tackle..He has never started at Safety..and getting the big hits is much easier on Special teams...(and he hasn\'t had a whole lot of those either)..It is just not enough evidence to say how well he can play..because..you\'ve never seen him play...other than Pre Season..and Special teams...he has done nothing...and certainly not enough to even begin to compare to Harrison...

JKool · 01-27-2005, 03:23 PM

Danno.

We agree on the first three on your list, definitely!

The difference among acquiring a FS, SS, or CB, to me is pretty negligible.

Bellamy would be ok if he didn\'t lose a beat, which he will. Tebucky, IMO, is not that bad - not great, but not bad. After McKenzie, do you really think we are ok at CB? I guess, I\'m not taht confident that Brown or Thomas is better than Tebucky, Bellamy, or Mitchell. This puts CB higer up than S for me, BUT ONLY MARGINALLY.

I think we\'re pretty close on this one.

In this thread, I was merely noting that a CB would improve our defense (of course, I suppose a Safety would too), when combined with a good LB.

What do you think about Colby? I don\'t really have much of an opinion myself. IMO he is better than Allen, and probably as good as Rodgers. That doesn\'t really inspire confidence. He does have heart though, and with some strength training he has the right size, right?

shadowdrinker · 01-27-2005, 03:39 PM

That\'s kind of the point I was trying to get at...

We need a top 3 player..from whichever position they choose to draft..

LB is pretty much out of the question...Johnson is not going to be there..and Brooks went back to college..chances are slim we would get the sort of guy we would need to constitue spending a 1st round pick on in this position...

Cb\'s go much faster then Safety in the Draft..and while we may be able to get a top 7?..maybe ...I think we would be much better suited getting the number 1 Safety...and instantly improving a very neglected spot...

If we can\'t get a top 3 safety..we need a top 3 corner..I said that before..and I stand by it..I would be very pleased to see us land Jamaal Brimmer...not only is he one of the very best Safeties in the draft..he is one of the Best Defensive players in the Draft...and we have a very good chance of getting him..without having to trade up or anything like that

It would be an excellent pick..then..we still have the 2nd round picks..and the possibility of trading Howard, either in the draft..or somwhere in between...

Danno · 01-27-2005, 03:47 PM

Danno.

We agree on the first three on your list, definitely!

The difference among acquiring a FS, SS, or CB, to me is pretty negligible.

Bellamy would be ok if he didn\'t lose a beat, which he will. Tebucky, IMO, is not that bad - not great, but not bad. After McKenzie, do you really think we are ok at CB? I guess, I\'m not taht confident that Brown or Thomas is better than Tebucky, Bellamy, or Mitchell. This puts CB higer up than S for me, BUT ONLY MARGINALLY.

I think we\'re pretty close on this one.

In this thread, I was merely noting that a CB would improve our defense (of course, I suppose a Safety would too), when combined with a good LB.

What do you think about Colby? I don\'t really have much of an opinion myself. IMO he is better than Allen, and probably as good as Rodgers. That doesn\'t really inspire confidence. He does have heart though, and with some strength training he has the right size, right?

Jkool, on Colby, I know I sound like a broken record because I\'ve commented on him several times. But he has skills. The scouts knocked him because he wasn\'t strong enough, and got overpowered on running plays. But he\'s EXTREMELY fast, fastest time for a LB at the combine. Scouts said he just needed a year or more in a solid NFL strength/conditioning program. One scout said he would love to see how this kids plays after a couple years, another said he\'s too weak to ever play. So who knows?
He\'s got the size, speed and smarts, he just needs to get NFL strong. I think he was the kid who chased down Vick in the 1st game.

papz · 01-27-2005, 05:24 PM

I\'ve said enough already, go back and look at everything. Then take notes and see what I\'ve said and have not. Then stop contradicting yourself about low rounders with tons of talent. It\'s people like you who would draft Terrell Davis in the 6th round and cut him the year after. LOL what a funny guy, you crack me up. I can name HUNDREDS of players who were picked in the lower rounds, and when given the chance, they proved to be PROBOWL CALIBER PLAYERS. You obviously are a negative thinking type of person who can\'t see talent when it slaps you in the face.

One thing I can agree with you on is getting a top 3 player for whatever position... wait... but isn\'t that obvious? We do have a first round pick and OBVIOUSLY whoever we pick there has that type of talent... IT\'S THE FIRST ROUND and IT\'S THE 16th PICK.

[Edited on 27/1/2005 by papz]

Tobias-Reiper · 01-28-2005, 01:42 AM

T-R, nice point about Grant. I suggested around mid-season that we employ a defense that allows him to rush more often (where he has less gap responsibility), what do you think about that?

Also, I had never really considered the 2TEs as as help for the Ts. I don\'t think that is true, as Gandy is a true LT, and was considered a very fine replacement for Roaf by many in the industry when we got him. He\'s just getting older. However, your suggestion is an interesting one - I\'ll consider further.

..on Grant, it baffles me... either he\'s not getting properly coached, or the defensive scheme is not there.. if they want Grant to rush all the time, fine, give him some support at the gap.. if he\'s not getting it that he needs to be patient and have position on running plays and just wants to rush all the time, fine, give him some support at the gap... but don\'t let the guy on his own.. he\'s a very good player, but he definitely needs coaching, either teach him to hold his ground and be patient on running plays, or give him some gap support...

..Gandy has been somewhat solid, no Willie Roaf, but solid... I just don\'t see why the 2 TE set if you don\'t really use the TEs in the passing game... maybe I\'m over-rationalizing the whole thing, I don\'t know...

01-27-2005, 12:14 PM	#51
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. I say we get fred smoot for the cornerback positon draft davis as a safety and if we can grab johnson or one of the top linebakers with our first--we need a playmaking linebacker that can give us depth, we need a safety that can hit and cover, and we need a cornerback--fred smoot in FA, draft lb and safety early..focus the rest of our picks on o line, backupqb and backup rb.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

01-27-2005, 12:23 PM	#52
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. Danno, I think I remember you pointing out Watson\'s weight to me before - I\'ve always respected your view when it comes to player knowledge. What I meant was, and I should have said it better, is that he plays small. He backs up, he doesn\'t stick guys that often (he is a solid tackler though), and he\'s not so good at blowing up blocks. So, I guess we agree - he needs to be stronger (which is all that I meant). Good to point that out though, it was my fault for not saying what I meant very clearly. T-R, nice point about Grant. I suggested around mid-season that we employ a defense that allows him to rush more often (where he has less gap responsibility), what do you think about that? Also, I had never really considered the 2TEs as as help for the Ts. I don\'t think that is true, as Gandy is a true LT, and was considered a very fine replacement for Roaf by many in the industry when we got him. He\'s just getting older. However, your suggestion is an interesting one - I\'ll consider further. baronm, I couldn\'t agree more! A CB and a playmaker LB would improve our defense a good deal. I still am not convince that we NEED a Safety. IMO Tebucky isn\'t that bad (not great mind you), and Mitchell still has a chance to be good (though little evidence is forthcoming for that).
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

01-27-2005, 12:54 PM	#53
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. if the Saints could get at least one solid tackle who doesn\'t need constant help to cover his side, , either left or right, it would be a great improvement... or it would allow us to utilize the te more in our offense.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

01-27-2005, 02:28 PM	#54
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. baronm, I couldn\'t agree more! A CB and a playmaker LB would improve our defense a good deal. I still am not convince that we NEED a Safety. Kool, I agree with the LB part. But a CB is now way down on my list now. I think the positions to upgrade that would impact this defense the most are... 1. SLB. I dont care how good Allen played down the stretch, the way he played the 1st half is enought to convince me we need help. 2. WLB. A Rookie 7th rounder claimed this spot by seasons end. Enough said. If they decide to move Watson here replace WLB with MLB. 3. DT. A solid 2-gap DT would allow Young to do what he does best. Shoot his gap and disrupt the backfield. He doesn\'t have to be the high-dollar stat guy, just a good run stuffing gap clogger. 4. FS. A ball hawking FS would be the icing on the cake if 1 thru 3 are done. Our CB\'s are solid enough and I think between Mitchell and Bellamy the need at SS falls below FS for now. 5. SS. Bellamy is aging, and Mitchell is still a relative unknown. I\'d like to see anouther youngster brought in to compete with Mitchell. 6.CB. The final piece of the puzzle and the last position I\'d address on defense. Another young CB to start grooming would be nice though.

01-27-2005, 03:00 PM	#55
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. LOL shadow... yet you approve of Colby B. a 7th rounder being in our starting lineup... don\'t contradict yourself buddy... GAMEOVER! First of all..I think you are getting a little carried away , I do approve of Bockwoldt..a 7th rounder that has come in here..and this is the key word for the day...PRODUCED..he played in only 10 games this year..and has allready piled up more tackles than Mitchell has in 3 years...and I know your going to scream about injury..But..Injury has never been an excuse for any player , or coach..ever...I\'m not going to sit here and compare Bockwoldt to Ray Lewis...Like you compare Mitchell to Rodney Harrison...Bockwoldt came in..produced..and earned a spot...good for him...I hope he does well.. Mitchell couldn\'t get his spot back this year...because he wasn\'t better than Bellamy..period...get over it... I fail to see where I contradict myself... Ask David Carr ROFLROFLROFL... about what? About how anyone can get to him with that poor line forcing him to make bad decisions? What is that going to prove lol! I guess you missed the Texans game where Bellamy got his ankles broke by Carr on that TD run..it was horriblly embarrasing..it was shown over, and over by every sports show...everybody was laughing about it..even Bellamy\'s own teamates ONCE AGAIN BELLAMY WAS BEATEN OUT FOR THE JOB... REPEAT HE WAS BEATEN OUT FOR THE JOB... REPEAT HE WAS BEATEN OUT FOR THE JOB... so obviously he isn\'t a project and people on the staff knows he has the talent... How many games has Mitchell started at Safety?....He was healthy this year...well?...how many?... Stop contradicting yourself buddy and maybe anything you say I\'ll take you a little more seriously. Otherwise LOL! what a funny guy! let me ask you a few questions about things you have said...since you are so willing to try to disprove whatever I say...let\'s begin..shall we... \'\'He is bigger than Jones and Bellamy, as fast as Jones, and tackles better than both of them. How can you prove that?...How do you know how well he can tackle..He has never started at Safety..and getting the big hits is much easier on Special teams...(and he hasn\'t had a whole lot of those either)..It is just not enough evidence to say how well he can play..because..you\'ve never seen him play...other than Pre Season..and Special teams...he has done nothing...and certainly not enough to even begin to compare to Harrison...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

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01-27-2005, 03:23 PM	#56
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. Danno. We agree on the first three on your list, definitely! The difference among acquiring a FS, SS, or CB, to me is pretty negligible. Bellamy would be ok if he didn\'t lose a beat, which he will. Tebucky, IMO, is not that bad - not great, but not bad. After McKenzie, do you really think we are ok at CB? I guess, I\'m not taht confident that Brown or Thomas is better than Tebucky, Bellamy, or Mitchell. This puts CB higer up than S for me, BUT ONLY MARGINALLY. I think we\'re pretty close on this one. In this thread, I was merely noting that a CB would improve our defense (of course, I suppose a Safety would too), when combined with a good LB. What do you think about Colby? I don\'t really have much of an opinion myself. IMO he is better than Allen, and probably as good as Rodgers. That doesn\'t really inspire confidence. He does have heart though, and with some strength training he has the right size, right?
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

01-27-2005, 03:39 PM	#57
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. That\'s kind of the point I was trying to get at... We need a top 3 player..from whichever position they choose to draft.. LB is pretty much out of the question...Johnson is not going to be there..and Brooks went back to college..chances are slim we would get the sort of guy we would need to constitue spending a 1st round pick on in this position... Cb\'s go much faster then Safety in the Draft..and while we may be able to get a top 7?..maybe ...I think we would be much better suited getting the number 1 Safety...and instantly improving a very neglected spot... If we can\'t get a top 3 safety..we need a top 3 corner..I said that before..and I stand by it..I would be very pleased to see us land Jamaal Brimmer...not only is he one of the very best Safeties in the draft..he is one of the Best Defensive players in the Draft...and we have a very good chance of getting him..without having to trade up or anything like that It would be an excellent pick..then..we still have the 2nd round picks..and the possibility of trading Howard, either in the draft..or somwhere in between...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

01-27-2005, 03:47 PM	#58
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. Danno. We agree on the first three on your list, definitely! The difference among acquiring a FS, SS, or CB, to me is pretty negligible. Bellamy would be ok if he didn\'t lose a beat, which he will. Tebucky, IMO, is not that bad - not great, but not bad. After McKenzie, do you really think we are ok at CB? I guess, I\'m not taht confident that Brown or Thomas is better than Tebucky, Bellamy, or Mitchell. This puts CB higer up than S for me, BUT ONLY MARGINALLY. I think we\'re pretty close on this one. In this thread, I was merely noting that a CB would improve our defense (of course, I suppose a Safety would too), when combined with a good LB. What do you think about Colby? I don\'t really have much of an opinion myself. IMO he is better than Allen, and probably as good as Rodgers. That doesn\'t really inspire confidence. He does have heart though, and with some strength training he has the right size, right? Jkool, on Colby, I know I sound like a broken record because I\'ve commented on him several times. But he has skills. The scouts knocked him because he wasn\'t strong enough, and got overpowered on running plays. But he\'s EXTREMELY fast, fastest time for a LB at the combine. Scouts said he just needed a year or more in a solid NFL strength/conditioning program. One scout said he would love to see how this kids plays after a couple years, another said he\'s too weak to ever play. So who knows? He\'s got the size, speed and smarts, he just needs to get NFL strong. I think he was the kid who chased down Vick in the 1st game.

01-27-2005, 05:24 PM	#59
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. I\'ve said enough already, go back and look at everything. Then take notes and see what I\'ve said and have not. Then stop contradicting yourself about low rounders with tons of talent. It\'s people like you who would draft Terrell Davis in the 6th round and cut him the year after. LOL what a funny guy, you crack me up. I can name HUNDREDS of players who were picked in the lower rounds, and when given the chance, they proved to be PROBOWL CALIBER PLAYERS. You obviously are a negative thinking type of person who can\'t see talent when it slaps you in the face. One thing I can agree with you on is getting a top 3 player for whatever position... wait... but isn\'t that obvious? We do have a first round pick and OBVIOUSLY whoever we pick there has that type of talent... IT\'S THE FIRST ROUND and IT\'S THE 16th PICK. [Edited on 27/1/2005 by papz]
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

01-28-2005, 01:42 AM	#60
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	We need LBs, Ts, DT, and S. T-R, nice point about Grant. I suggested around mid-season that we employ a defense that allows him to rush more often (where he has less gap responsibility), what do you think about that? Also, I had never really considered the 2TEs as as help for the Ts. I don\'t think that is true, as Gandy is a true LT, and was considered a very fine replacement for Roaf by many in the industry when we got him. He\'s just getting older. However, your suggestion is an interesting one - I\'ll consider further. ..on Grant, it baffles me... either he\'s not getting properly coached, or the defensive scheme is not there.. if they want Grant to rush all the time, fine, give him some support at the gap.. if he\'s not getting it that he needs to be patient and have position on running plays and just wants to rush all the time, fine, give him some support at the gap... but don\'t let the guy on his own.. he\'s a very good player, but he definitely needs coaching, either teach him to hold his ground and be patient on running plays, or give him some gap support... ..Gandy has been somewhat solid, no Willie Roaf, but solid... I just don\'t see why the 2 TE set if you don\'t really use the TEs in the passing game... maybe I\'m over-rationalizing the whole thing, I don\'t know...
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill