About AB and the Saints...

mutineer10 · 01-29-2005, 09:55 AM

:casstet: Here we go again...

As usual, you took a line or two out of a post and ignored the rest. That\'s fine, I expect no less.

I believe AB\'s inconsistent play has MORE to do with the inconsistency surrounding him.

That\'s okay ... he believes that, too.

But, first, who are the QB\'s who perform on a consistent basis?

I never brought up these guys, I don\'t even like most of them. But you want to argue about them, so I guess I\'m your huckleberry...

Favre - SUPER BOWL win, hasn\'t missed a game since 1992, 61.5 career comp %, almost 50K career passing yds, 376 TD\'s to 226 INT\'s, a career passer rating of 87.4 (92.4 this season) dispite playing under the conditions in Green Bay. Not too shabby. Think Brooks will ever achieve this much?

Green - 60.4 comp %, almost 20K yds, 133 TD\'s & 82 INT\'s in 5 1/2 years as a starter. 89.2 career passer rating (95.2 this year). All this despite his best receiver being a TE. Plays in often cold and windy KC.

He-who-shall-not-be-named - SUPER BOWL appearance. A 58.6 comp %, almost 3,900 yds, 29 TD\'s & 15 INT\'s with an 87.3 passer rating this season. This on a team whose injuries made it look like a victim of the bubonic plague. 3 RB\'s, the #1 WR, and a handful of linemen all suffered sidelining injuries and many others played hurt. Plays outdoors.

Bulger - oh look, another castaway! 64.6 comp %, almost 10K yds, 57 TD\'s & 42 INT\'s in 2 1/2 years as a starter. 89.7 career passer rating (93.7 this season). Played behind one of the worst O-lines ever to take the field this season in St. Louis. A couple of them were even called out of retirement in a weak attempt to fill the holes. Virtually no help from the running game. Still made the playoffs. Plays on turf in a dome.

Matt Hasselbeck? Nope. He\'s far from the consistent QB you are looking for.

Aww, c\'mon Billy. I\'m not even gonna respond to that...

Now let\'s talk Leon:

Brooks - proving his greatness with a career 56.5 comp %, 16K yds, 107 TD\'s & 67 INT\'s in 4 1/4 years as a starter. 81.5 career passer rating (79.5 this year). I\'m gonna go light and not even LIST his fumbles. Less playoff wins than any of the QB\'s you mentioned. O-line isn\'t great, but isn\'t the worst, either. Plays on turf in a dome.

How many consistent QB do you know who have the worst defense

Well ... Culpepper, P. Manning, Bulger, Favre, and Green all play on teams with pretty suspect defenses.

a terrible offensive line

SEE ABOVE: Bulger. Green Bay and Minnesota\'s lines weren\'t spectacular this year either.

and receivers who drop the ball on a consistent basis

Well, you mentioned Hasselbeck. Seattle has been the undisputed ball-dropping kingdom for a couple of years now. With the exception of Randy Moss, you\'ll notice Culpepper suffered through alot of dropped passes himself.

Billy, I only used players YOU brought up. Fire up some of that old Gumbo logic now!

I can hardly wait... :icon_eyesroll:

[Edited on 29/1/2005 by mutineer10]

saintswhodi · 01-29-2005, 10:41 AM

Eat him up mutey. It\'s funny to me how Gumbo is eaten up by these SAME arguments in another thread, so then he tries them on someone else. That\'s amazing. But just like the Saints, if it doesn\'t work, keep trying it until people go along with it as truth, no matter how unsuccessful.

New guys welcome. I see you guys are behind our QB, and more power to you. Keep with it, there need to be at least some faithful.

JKool · 01-29-2005, 02:33 PM

Three things:

(1) How does being in a SB or even winning one show that the inconsistency around a QB also makes him inconsistent? I thought that was Billy\'s point. I don\'t see why an inconsistent QB couldn\'t win the SB (I DO see why it might be unlikely). Imagine a team with an inconsistent running game, inconsistent defense, inconsistent passing game, and an inconsistent special teams. On any given Sunday any two of these five things could be relatively poor and the team could win - it really just is a matter of all of them not being off at the same time.

(2) Mutey, I really liked this:

There\'s more than one rotten apple in our basket.

I thought it to be a very apt quote.
PS - I laughed hard at the \"carp\" thing when you brought it up again.

(3) New guys, it is good to see some spunk (ha ha, I said spunk) around here. I suggest, though, that before you get into the thick of it, you go back and AT LEAST skim through some of the recent arguments against Brooks. Whodi and BMG (among others) have put up a good set of arguments to this effect. While I still don\'t agree with them, they have made me change my view slightly on Brooks.

LKelley67 · 01-29-2005, 04:22 PM

welcome too from a new guy myself...

anyhoo, i would like to see someone new behind center. not cuz ab is a total bum. there are worse indeed. i put him in the middle of the pack sum total, erratic in overall performance. when playing the cap game tho a key to success is the performance in ratio to pay. hence the pats moving a milloy or tebucky but signing dillon for example. being 7%+ of the team payroll i just dont see ab as value with the past five years of performance. my thoughts of money better spent (of course you have to actually do that) is to contend making better use of that 6-7mil. journeymen dilfer and brad johnson in recent super bowls come to mind as good teams with hohum signal callers. there is still a couple of years of window for this team to make a run before a rebuild will be required. the cap game requires it. develop a youngster for a couple of years or target a franchise 1st rounder when that transition comes.

as far as the best or second best in saints quarterback factory history (dave wilson, jim everett, billy joe\'s, etc), er, that\'s kinda like saying who were the top two qb\'s in the bengals history? 90% would say boomer. why though? at least to the big game. ken anderson was probably better but struggled with some archie-like teams.

spkb25 · 01-29-2005, 05:05 PM

my only problem with AB is the fact that he seems o be immature. he doesnt seem to lead the team the way he should. i never thoguth this until towars the end of the season. i think he has the abiltity to be good but thats up to him. i do think we need him for at least one more year

Joe_Buddens · 01-29-2005, 06:50 PM

Thanks for your contrbutions everyone...

To sum up my continued support for AB in words, I guess I feel that his inconsistencies has proven only to be one of the most minor problems with this team, and you can\'t fix the bulk of the problem by getting rid of a minor one...

To use an analogy to describe AB, this team and it\'s fanbase, it\'s as if we have this truck with busted out headlights, a motor that\'s nearly ran it\'s course, a radio and tape deck that isn\'t operable, and no heater and air conditioning, yet we choose to forever complain about how it needs a new paint job or something...

I still believe that he will be successful in this league with the rite coaching and supporting cast around him. And I have a weird feeling that we\'d immediately see this if we were to ever trade him.

FireVenturi · 01-29-2005, 07:01 PM

Hi SC! I see you\'re new too. Thanks for responding...

Actually I think Haslett is the least of our problems as well. He\'s known throughout the league as a quality coach. I think Benson and Loomis are more of a problem than he is, and he could use a major coaching staff overhaul. I like the fact that McCarthy is on his way out, but Venturi should be gone as well.

Well put joe! Welcome

:yourock:

FireVenturi · 01-29-2005, 07:01 PM

:casstet: Here we go again...

As usual, you took a line or two out of a post and ignored the rest. That\'s fine, I expect no less.

I believe AB\'s inconsistent play has MORE to do with the inconsistency surrounding him.

That\'s okay ... he believes that, too.

But, first, who are the QB\'s who perform on a consistent basis?

I never brought up these guys, I don\'t even like most of them. But you want to argue about them, so I guess I\'m your huckleberry...

Favre - SUPER BOWL win, hasn\'t missed a game since 1992, 61.5 career comp %, almost 50K career passing yds, 376 TD\'s to 226 INT\'s, a career passer rating of 87.4 (92.4 this season) dispite playing under the conditions in Green Bay. Not too shabby. Think Brooks will ever achieve this much?

Green - 60.4 comp %, almost 20K yds, 133 TD\'s & 82 INT\'s in 5 1/2 years as a starter. 89.2 career passer rating (95.2 this year). All this despite his best receiver being a TE. Plays in often cold and windy KC.

He-who-shall-not-be-named - SUPER BOWL appearance. A 58.6 comp %, almost 3,900 yds, 29 TD\'s & 15 INT\'s with an 87.3 passer rating this season. This on a team whose injuries made it look like a victim of the bubonic plague. 3 RB\'s, the #1 WR, and a handful of linemen all suffered sidelining injuries and many others played hurt. Plays outdoors.

Bulger - oh look, another castaway! 64.6 comp %, almost 10K yds, 57 TD\'s & 42 INT\'s in 2 1/2 years as a starter. 89.7 career passer rating (93.7 this season). Played behind one of the worst O-lines ever to take the field this season in St. Louis. A couple of them were even called out of retirement in a weak attempt to fill the holes. Virtually no help from the running game. Still made the playoffs. Plays on turf in a dome.

Matt Hasselbeck? Nope. He\'s far from the consistent QB you are looking for.

Aww, c\'mon Billy. I\'m not even gonna respond to that...

Now let\'s talk Leon:

Brooks - proving his greatness with a career 56.5 comp %, 16K yds, 107 TD\'s & 67 INT\'s in 4 1/4 years as a starter. 81.5 career passer rating (79.5 this year). I\'m gonna go light and not even LIST his fumbles. Less playoff wins than any of the QB\'s you mentioned. O-line isn\'t great, but isn\'t the worst, either. Plays on turf in a dome.

How many consistent QB do you know who have the worst defense

Well ... Culpepper, P. Manning, Bulger, Favre, and Green all play on teams with pretty suspect defenses.

a terrible offensive line

SEE ABOVE: Bulger. Green Bay and Minnesota\'s lines weren\'t spectacular this year either.

and receivers who drop the ball on a consistent basis

Well, you mentioned Hasselbeck. Seattle has been the undisputed ball-dropping kingdom for a couple of years now. With the exception of Randy Moss, you\'ll notice Culpepper suffered through alot of dropped passes himself.

Billy, I only used players YOU brought up. Fire up some of that old Gumbo logic now!

I can hardly wait... :icon_eyesroll:

[Edited on 29/1/2005 by mutineer10]

Bulger is terrible!!!!!!!!!!

ScottyRo · 01-29-2005, 07:18 PM

Bulger is terrible!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. I watched the rams a couple of times expecting to get really T\'d off that we let him go. To the contrary I was always left asking myself what the big deal with him is. To me he seems like he\'s got a good knowledge of his offense, but his arm isn\'t there and he tends to float his passes downfield. If his WRs weren\'t so adept at pushing off, I mean, getting open, he\'d have a much worse Td/Int ratio.

saintswhodi · 01-29-2005, 08:12 PM

He\'s better than AB. So if Bulger is terrible, that makes AB................

01-29-2005, 09:55 AM	#11
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	About AB and the Saints... :casstet: Here we go again... As usual, you took a line or two out of a post and ignored the rest. That\'s fine, I expect no less. I believe AB\'s inconsistent play has MORE to do with the inconsistency surrounding him. That\'s okay ... he believes that, too. But, first, who are the QB\'s who perform on a consistent basis? I never brought up these guys, I don\'t even like most of them. But you want to argue about them, so I guess I\'m your huckleberry... Favre - SUPER BOWL win, hasn\'t missed a game since 1992, 61.5 career comp %, almost 50K career passing yds, 376 TD\'s to 226 INT\'s, a career passer rating of 87.4 (92.4 this season) dispite playing under the conditions in Green Bay. Not too shabby. Think Brooks will ever achieve this much? Green - 60.4 comp %, almost 20K yds, 133 TD\'s & 82 INT\'s in 5 1/2 years as a starter. 89.2 career passer rating (95.2 this year). All this despite his best receiver being a TE. Plays in often cold and windy KC. He-who-shall-not-be-named - SUPER BOWL appearance. A 58.6 comp %, almost 3,900 yds, 29 TD\'s & 15 INT\'s with an 87.3 passer rating this season. This on a team whose injuries made it look like a victim of the bubonic plague. 3 RB\'s, the #1 WR, and a handful of linemen all suffered sidelining injuries and many others played hurt. Plays outdoors. Bulger - oh look, another castaway! 64.6 comp %, almost 10K yds, 57 TD\'s & 42 INT\'s in 2 1/2 years as a starter. 89.7 career passer rating (93.7 this season). Played behind one of the worst O-lines ever to take the field this season in St. Louis. A couple of them were even called out of retirement in a weak attempt to fill the holes. Virtually no help from the running game. Still made the playoffs. Plays on turf in a dome. Matt Hasselbeck? Nope. He\'s far from the consistent QB you are looking for. Aww, c\'mon Billy. I\'m not even gonna respond to that... Now let\'s talk Leon: Brooks - proving his greatness with a career 56.5 comp %, 16K yds, 107 TD\'s & 67 INT\'s in 4 1/4 years as a starter. 81.5 career passer rating (79.5 this year). I\'m gonna go light and not even LIST his fumbles. Less playoff wins than any of the QB\'s you mentioned. O-line isn\'t great, but isn\'t the worst, either. Plays on turf in a dome. How many consistent QB do you know who have the worst defense Well ... Culpepper, P. Manning, Bulger, Favre, and Green all play on teams with pretty suspect defenses. a terrible offensive line SEE ABOVE: Bulger. Green Bay and Minnesota\'s lines weren\'t spectacular this year either. and receivers who drop the ball on a consistent basis Well, you mentioned Hasselbeck. Seattle has been the undisputed ball-dropping kingdom for a couple of years now. With the exception of Randy Moss, you\'ll notice Culpepper suffered through alot of dropped passes himself. Billy, I only used players YOU brought up. Fire up some of that old Gumbo logic now! I can hardly wait... :icon_eyesroll: [Edited on 29/1/2005 by mutineer10]

01-29-2005, 10:41 AM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	About AB and the Saints... Eat him up mutey. It\'s funny to me how Gumbo is eaten up by these SAME arguments in another thread, so then he tries them on someone else. That\'s amazing. But just like the Saints, if it doesn\'t work, keep trying it until people go along with it as truth, no matter how unsuccessful. New guys welcome. I see you guys are behind our QB, and more power to you. Keep with it, there need to be at least some faithful.

01-29-2005, 02:33 PM	#13
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	About AB and the Saints... Three things: (1) How does being in a SB or even winning one show that the inconsistency around a QB also makes him inconsistent? I thought that was Billy\'s point. I don\'t see why an inconsistent QB couldn\'t win the SB (I DO see why it might be unlikely). Imagine a team with an inconsistent running game, inconsistent defense, inconsistent passing game, and an inconsistent special teams. On any given Sunday any two of these five things could be relatively poor and the team could win - it really just is a matter of all of them not being off at the same time. (2) Mutey, I really liked this: There\'s more than one rotten apple in our basket. I thought it to be a very apt quote. PS - I laughed hard at the \"carp\" thing when you brought it up again. (3) New guys, it is good to see some spunk (ha ha, I said spunk) around here. I suggest, though, that before you get into the thick of it, you go back and AT LEAST skim through some of the recent arguments against Brooks. Whodi and BMG (among others) have put up a good set of arguments to this effect. While I still don\'t agree with them, they have made me change my view slightly on Brooks.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

01-29-2005, 04:22 PM	#14
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	About AB and the Saints... welcome too from a new guy myself... anyhoo, i would like to see someone new behind center. not cuz ab is a total bum. there are worse indeed. i put him in the middle of the pack sum total, erratic in overall performance. when playing the cap game tho a key to success is the performance in ratio to pay. hence the pats moving a milloy or tebucky but signing dillon for example. being 7%+ of the team payroll i just dont see ab as value with the past five years of performance. my thoughts of money better spent (of course you have to actually do that) is to contend making better use of that 6-7mil. journeymen dilfer and brad johnson in recent super bowls come to mind as good teams with hohum signal callers. there is still a couple of years of window for this team to make a run before a rebuild will be required. the cap game requires it. develop a youngster for a couple of years or target a franchise 1st rounder when that transition comes. as far as the best or second best in saints quarterback factory history (dave wilson, jim everett, billy joe\'s, etc), er, that\'s kinda like saying who were the top two qb\'s in the bengals history? 90% would say boomer. why though? at least to the big game. ken anderson was probably better but struggled with some archie-like teams.

01-29-2005, 05:05 PM	#15
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	About AB and the Saints... my only problem with AB is the fact that he seems o be immature. he doesnt seem to lead the team the way he should. i never thoguth this until towars the end of the season. i think he has the abiltity to be good but thats up to him. i do think we need him for at least one more year

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01-29-2005, 06:50 PM	#16
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	About AB and the Saints... Thanks for your contrbutions everyone... To sum up my continued support for AB in words, I guess I feel that his inconsistencies has proven only to be one of the most minor problems with this team, and you can\'t fix the bulk of the problem by getting rid of a minor one... To use an analogy to describe AB, this team and it\'s fanbase, it\'s as if we have this truck with busted out headlights, a motor that\'s nearly ran it\'s course, a radio and tape deck that isn\'t operable, and no heater and air conditioning, yet we choose to forever complain about how it needs a new paint job or something... I still believe that he will be successful in this league with the rite coaching and supporting cast around him. And I have a weird feeling that we\'d immediately see this if we were to ever trade him.
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16

01-29-2005, 07:01 PM	#17
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	About AB and the Saints... Hi SC! I see you\'re new too. Thanks for responding... Actually I think Haslett is the least of our problems as well. He\'s known throughout the league as a quality coach. I think Benson and Loomis are more of a problem than he is, and he could use a major coaching staff overhaul. I like the fact that McCarthy is on his way out, but Venturi should be gone as well. Well put joe! Welcome :yourock:

01-29-2005, 07:18 PM	#19
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	About AB and the Saints... Bulger is terrible!!!!!!!!!! I agree. I watched the rams a couple of times expecting to get really T\'d off that we let him go. To the contrary I was always left asking myself what the big deal with him is. To me he seems like he\'s got a good knowledge of his offense, but his arm isn\'t there and he tends to float his passes downfield. If his WRs weren\'t so adept at pushing off, I mean, getting open, he\'d have a much worse Td/Int ratio.

01-29-2005, 08:12 PM	#20
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	About AB and the Saints... He\'s better than AB. So if Bulger is terrible, that makes AB................