About AB and the Saints...

Joe_Buddens · 01-29-2005, 01:48 AM

Hey everybody, I'm a newbie. Before I start, I'd just like to say that I've been visiting this board just to read you guys' contributions for quite some time now and I must say that it's refreshing to see such civility and intellectualism. It's quite a switch from the idiocy and barbarism of the nola.com board where I frequently post...

Anyway, I'd just like to weigh in my 2 cents about the AB/Saints situation and how alot of you seem to share the sentiment that AB has been "holding us back"...

Judging from a good number of posts I've read here, I've figured that some of you would've been content with just seeing this team limp, trip and fall into the playoffs in any of these last 4 miserable seasons without any legitimate shot at making it to the big dance...

I, personally, would never be excited about any Saints team entering the postseason if I didn't feel that they could actually go the distance, and I wouldn't have felt that way in any of the past 4 seasons, if they had qualified for the playoffs. That's why I can honestly say that I'm nowhere near as disappointed as most other Saints fans are about our situation. This team is just too weak when it comes to playcalling on both sides of the ball to be serious contenders. ...

And I know that AB has become the scapegoat for all this team's struggles, and I don't think it's fair. Although he does deserve some criticism, for the most part I've seen a QB that has done MORE than his fair share to get this team in playoff contention, even with the boneheaded mistakes he's made during his tenure here...

Refering back to the 02' season for instance, I saw a QB who tried his hardest to help get our 10th win against the Vikes. We scored 30+ points in that game and STILL lost. The next week against the Bengals, a simple reception by either Boo Williams or Mike Lewis would've been 2 TDs (and those particular passes that they missed couldn't have been thrown more perfectly) which would've gotten us our 10th win as well...

And some posters here will make the strange comment that AB has not been able to post a season better than 8-8 or 9-7. Well, has Duece been able to do any better? How bout' Horn? Howard? A TEAM record is reflective of the play of the entire TEAM, not just the QB, and the entire TEAM is responsible for any record they finish with...

So I guess my question to the AB haters is; What kinda success do you think this team would've accomplished even if we had made it to the postseason in any or all of these last 4 seasons? Do you actually think this team could've made it to the SuperBowl? I surely don't. In fact, I think we would've lost in any of the 1st rounds...

Say what you want about AB, but he is certainly either the best or 2nd best QB that this franchise has ever witnessed, and he deserves to be kept here atleast until his current contract has expired. But that's just how I feel. Feel free to comment.

SCSaint · 01-29-2005, 02:19 AM

Hi Joe!

I kinda feel the same way. I think that Haz got a pass but had to make changes in order to stay.

But would Benson pay the money needed to get someone better if he did get rid of the head coach?

The talent is there we just need someone to get it out. Nobody could possibly draft that bad could they?

Joe_Buddens · 01-29-2005, 02:28 AM

Hi SC! I see you\'re new too. Thanks for responding...

Actually I think Haslett is the least of our problems as well. He\'s known throughout the league as a quality coach. I think Benson and Loomis are more of a problem than he is, and he could use a major coaching staff overhaul. I like the fact that McCarthy is on his way out, but Venturi should be gone as well.

SCSaint · 01-29-2005, 02:51 AM

Venturi is on a short leash you would think with the addition of Willy Robinson .

You could see a little fire at the end of the season and thats what paused the axe of Venturie??????

But like I said \" Very short leash\"{

Joe_Buddens · 01-29-2005, 03:02 AM

Oh yeah, the new \"senior assistant\" to the defense. I think it was a good move. It surely goes to show that Haz doesn\'t have as much faith in Venturi\'s scheme as some might\'ve once believed. I think it also means that Benson was dead set against getting rid of Venturi for some odd reason. But obviously Haz had to do something different.

SCSaint · 01-29-2005, 03:23 AM

With what he has done and improvment made Haz should have been let go, but he was \'nt so this should be a pretty loose year from him, right? Yeah right! lol

JKool · 01-29-2005, 05:05 AM

Heya JB and SC.

Welcome to the board.

JB, let me just say that I\'m sympathetic to your view. However, there isn\'t a lot of evidence that AB can get the job done. My \"faith\" lies with you, but my head is telling me that AB is a middle of the road QB at most. I think with some improvements on D and the OLine, we can make it deep into the playoffs. I am skeptical that THIS team can compete for a SB.

I have to say that, right now, I\'m convinced that Haz can only coach underdog teams. Even next year in most games we will not be underdogs.

As for this year, I think that if we\'d made the playoffs, we would have won our first game (riding our new found confidence and four game winning streak), but after that we would have been in serious trouble. We could not compete with the running offense of Pitt nor the meticulous precision of the Patirots.

We NEED a strong offseason!

Either way, welcome again to our board. I\'m glad you\'ve been enjoying it for awhile. We\'ll look forward to your work here with us.

[Edited on 29/1/2005 by JKool]

mutineer10 · 01-29-2005, 08:03 AM

And some posters here will make the strange comment that AB has not been able to post a season better than 8-8 or 9-7. Well, has Duece been able to do any better? How bout\' Horn? Howard? A TEAM record is reflective of the play of the entire TEAM, not just the QB, and the entire TEAM is responsible for any record they finish with...

Indeed. As a confirmed old \"AB hater\" (I\'m bittersweetly responsible for the Leon fiasco), I\'ve at least gotta agree with that logic. There\'s more than one rotten apple in our basket.

I think most of the anti-AB crowd realizes he\'s far from our only problem. In fact, most of us will admit he\'s actually played some fine football during his tenure with the Saints. Our problem lies largely with AB\'s inability to perform well on a consistent basis. There are variables to affect this outcome, sure, but every QB in the NFL has to deal with those same variables.

These guys are pros, they\'re doing it for the money. All one needs to ask in return is that they hold up their end of the bargain. AB does not perform to the level of his pay, no matter how great he thinks (and reminds us) he is. We could get a QB of his calibre far cheaper, so why don\'t we?

And BTW, welcome :newbie: folks, glad to have ya\'

GumboBC · 01-29-2005, 08:26 AM

Our problem lies largely with AB\'s inability to perform well on a consistent basis. There are variables to affect this outcome, sure, but every QB in the NFL has to deal with those same variables.

I disagree. I don\'t think there\'s a QB who performs on a consistent basis who has the problems AB has to contend with.

But, first, who are the QB\'s who perform on a consistent basis?

Favre? Nope. He screws up as much or more than Brooks? Surly you have seen Favre play?!

Trent Green? Nope. Did you watch him play this year? His 22 TDs and 15 Ints were hardly any better than Brooks. And the Chiefs only won 7- games.

Jake Delhomme. Nope. He played terribly for about the first 8 games and threw 15 Ints of his own and his team did worse than the Saints. The Panthers only won 7 games.

Mark Bulger. Nope. His 22 TDs and 14 Ints are hardly the definition of consistency and his team only won 8-games.

Matt Hasselbeck? Nope. He\'s far from the consistent QB you are looking for.

I believe AB\'s inconsistent play has MORE to do with the inconsistency surrounding him. That\' doesn\'t mean AB doesn\'t throw some ill-advised passes or make bad throws.

How many consistent QB do you know who have the worst defense, a terrible offensive line, and receivers who drop the ball on a consistent basis?

Peyton? McNabb? Culpepper? Who?

GumboBC · 01-29-2005, 08:30 AM

P.S. -

Welcome to B&G Joe_Buddens.

It\'s nice to see folks who know football. Looking foward to you being here a long time.

[Edited on 29/1/2005 by GumboBC]

01-29-2005, 01:48 AM	#1
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	About AB and the Saints... Hey everybody, I'm a newbie. Before I start, I'd just like to say that I've been visiting this board just to read you guys' contributions for quite some time now and I must say that it's refreshing to see such civility and intellectualism. It's quite a switch from the idiocy and barbarism of the nola.com board where I frequently post... Anyway, I'd just like to weigh in my 2 cents about the AB/Saints situation and how alot of you seem to share the sentiment that AB has been "holding us back"... Judging from a good number of posts I've read here, I've figured that some of you would've been content with just seeing this team limp, trip and fall into the playoffs in any of these last 4 miserable seasons without any legitimate shot at making it to the big dance... I, personally, would never be excited about any Saints team entering the postseason if I didn't feel that they could actually go the distance, and I wouldn't have felt that way in any of the past 4 seasons, if they had qualified for the playoffs. That's why I can honestly say that I'm nowhere near as disappointed as most other Saints fans are about our situation. This team is just too weak when it comes to playcalling on both sides of the ball to be serious contenders. ... And I know that AB has become the scapegoat for all this team's struggles, and I don't think it's fair. Although he does deserve some criticism, for the most part I've seen a QB that has done MORE than his fair share to get this team in playoff contention, even with the boneheaded mistakes he's made during his tenure here... Refering back to the 02' season for instance, I saw a QB who tried his hardest to help get our 10th win against the Vikes. We scored 30+ points in that game and STILL lost. The next week against the Bengals, a simple reception by either Boo Williams or Mike Lewis would've been 2 TDs (and those particular passes that they missed couldn't have been thrown more perfectly) which would've gotten us our 10th win as well... And some posters here will make the strange comment that AB has not been able to post a season better than 8-8 or 9-7. Well, has Duece been able to do any better? How bout' Horn? Howard? A TEAM record is reflective of the play of the entire TEAM, not just the QB, and the entire TEAM is responsible for any record they finish with... So I guess my question to the AB haters is; What kinda success do you think this team would've accomplished even if we had made it to the postseason in any or all of these last 4 seasons? Do you actually think this team could've made it to the SuperBowl? I surely don't. In fact, I think we would've lost in any of the 1st rounds... Say what you want about AB, but he is certainly either the best or 2nd best QB that this franchise has ever witnessed, and he deserves to be kept here atleast until his current contract has expired. But that's just how I feel. Feel free to comment.
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16

01-29-2005, 02:19 AM	#2
SCSaint Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 30	About AB and the Saints... Hi Joe! I kinda feel the same way. I think that Haz got a pass but had to make changes in order to stay. But would Benson pay the money needed to get someone better if he did get rid of the head coach? The talent is there we just need someone to get it out. Nobody could possibly draft that bad could they?
SCSaint Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 30

01-29-2005, 02:28 AM	#3
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	About AB and the Saints... Hi SC! I see you\'re new too. Thanks for responding... Actually I think Haslett is the least of our problems as well. He\'s known throughout the league as a quality coach. I think Benson and Loomis are more of a problem than he is, and he could use a major coaching staff overhaul. I like the fact that McCarthy is on his way out, but Venturi should be gone as well.
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16

01-29-2005, 02:51 AM	#4
SCSaint Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 30	About AB and the Saints... Venturi is on a short leash you would think with the addition of Willy Robinson . You could see a little fire at the end of the season and thats what paused the axe of Venturie?????? But like I said \" Very short leash\"{
SCSaint Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 30

01-29-2005, 03:02 AM	#5
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16	About AB and the Saints... Oh yeah, the new \"senior assistant\" to the defense. I think it was a good move. It surely goes to show that Haz doesn\'t have as much faith in Venturi\'s scheme as some might\'ve once believed. I think it also means that Benson was dead set against getting rid of Venturi for some odd reason. But obviously Haz had to do something different.
Joe_Buddens Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 16

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01-29-2005, 03:23 AM	#6
SCSaint Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 30	About AB and the Saints... With what he has done and improvment made Haz should have been let go, but he was \'nt so this should be a pretty loose year from him, right? Yeah right! lol
SCSaint Registered Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 30

01-29-2005, 05:05 AM	#7
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	About AB and the Saints... Heya JB and SC. Welcome to the board. JB, let me just say that I\'m sympathetic to your view. However, there isn\'t a lot of evidence that AB can get the job done. My \"faith\" lies with you, but my head is telling me that AB is a middle of the road QB at most. I think with some improvements on D and the OLine, we can make it deep into the playoffs. I am skeptical that THIS team can compete for a SB. I have to say that, right now, I\'m convinced that Haz can only coach underdog teams. Even next year in most games we will not be underdogs. As for this year, I think that if we\'d made the playoffs, we would have won our first game (riding our new found confidence and four game winning streak), but after that we would have been in serious trouble. We could not compete with the running offense of Pitt nor the meticulous precision of the Patirots. We NEED a strong offseason! Either way, welcome again to our board. I\'m glad you\'ve been enjoying it for awhile. We\'ll look forward to your work here with us. [Edited on 29/1/2005 by JKool]
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

01-29-2005, 08:03 AM	#8
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	About AB and the Saints... And some posters here will make the strange comment that AB has not been able to post a season better than 8-8 or 9-7. Well, has Duece been able to do any better? How bout\' Horn? Howard? A TEAM record is reflective of the play of the entire TEAM, not just the QB, and the entire TEAM is responsible for any record they finish with... Indeed. As a confirmed old \"AB hater\" (I\'m bittersweetly responsible for the Leon fiasco), I\'ve at least gotta agree with that logic. There\'s more than one rotten apple in our basket. I think most of the anti-AB crowd realizes he\'s far from our only problem. In fact, most of us will admit he\'s actually played some fine football during his tenure with the Saints. Our problem lies largely with AB\'s inability to perform well on a consistent basis. There are variables to affect this outcome, sure, but every QB in the NFL has to deal with those same variables. These guys are pros, they\'re doing it for the money. All one needs to ask in return is that they hold up their end of the bargain. AB does not perform to the level of his pay, no matter how great he thinks (and reminds us) he is. We could get a QB of his calibre far cheaper, so why don\'t we? And BTW, welcome :newbie: folks, glad to have ya\'

01-29-2005, 08:26 AM	#9
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	About AB and the Saints... Our problem lies largely with AB\'s inability to perform well on a consistent basis. There are variables to affect this outcome, sure, but every QB in the NFL has to deal with those same variables. I disagree. I don\'t think there\'s a QB who performs on a consistent basis who has the problems AB has to contend with. But, first, who are the QB\'s who perform on a consistent basis? Favre? Nope. He screws up as much or more than Brooks? Surly you have seen Favre play?! Trent Green? Nope. Did you watch him play this year? His 22 TDs and 15 Ints were hardly any better than Brooks. And the Chiefs only won 7- games. Jake Delhomme. Nope. He played terribly for about the first 8 games and threw 15 Ints of his own and his team did worse than the Saints. The Panthers only won 7 games. Mark Bulger. Nope. His 22 TDs and 14 Ints are hardly the definition of consistency and his team only won 8-games. Matt Hasselbeck? Nope. He\'s far from the consistent QB you are looking for. I believe AB\'s inconsistent play has MORE to do with the inconsistency surrounding him. That\' doesn\'t mean AB doesn\'t throw some ill-advised passes or make bad throws. How many consistent QB do you know who have the worst defense, a terrible offensive line, and receivers who drop the ball on a consistent basis? Peyton? McNabb? Culpepper? Who?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

01-29-2005, 08:30 AM	#10
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	About AB and the Saints... P.S. - Welcome to B&G Joe_Buddens. It\'s nice to see folks who know football. Looking foward to you being here a long time. [Edited on 29/1/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616