3 and outs made our defense look bad?

GumboBC · 02-23-2005, 05:23 PM

Minnesota -- 425 yards passing (5 TD p ***** in that game)
St. Louis -- 358 yards passing
Oakland -- 350 yards passing
KC -- 311 yards passing
Carolina -- 307 yards passing

We did do pretty well against teams with Rookies or cast offs at QB tho.

Seattle -- 170 yards rushing
San Fran -- 180 yards rushing
Arizona -- 240 was it...yards rushing
Minnesota -- 188 yards rushing
SD -- 251 yards rushing
Denver -- 200 yards rushing
Atlanta -- 186 yards rushing
Carolina -- 132 yards rushing
Dallas -- 121 yards rushing
Tampa Bay -- 169 yards rushing

MY GOD!! That is awful!!

Our damn OFFENSE couldn\'t stop anyone.. :P

[Edited on 23/2/2005 by GumboBC]

saintswhodi · 02-23-2005, 05:28 PM

Minnesota -- 425 yards passing (5 TD p ***** in that game)
St. Louis -- 358 yards passing
Oakland -- 350 yards passing
KC -- 311 yards passing
Carolina -- 307 yards passing

We did do pretty well against teams with Rookies or cast offs at QB tho.

Seattle -- 170 yards rushing
San Fran -- 180 yards rushing
Arizona -- 240 was it...yards rushing
Minnesota -- 188 yards rushing
SD -- 251 yards rushing
Denver -- 200 yards rushing
Atlanta -- 186 yards rushing
Carolina -- 132 yards rushing
Dallas -- 121 yards rushing
Tampa Bay -- 169 yards rushing

I think they held the opposing team to under 100 yards rushing 5 times. I rekon they were just tired tho...you blame the offense for %50 of those numbers then? I\'d say we\'ve got a bigger problem. And yeah, I\'d say we disagree. Our defense was DEAD LAST whodi, and Brooks and the offense wasn\'t the reason, but you think like you wanna think. You ain\'t foolin\' me tho.

Didn\'t you just say stats are thrown out all over the place? So I can just ignore these right? And who the hell is talking about Brooks? We are talking about the OFFENSE, or did you forget that? Gumbo, Mr. the offense doesn\'t hurt the defense just said this

Running time off the clock certainly helps the defensive ranking. Running the football is the best way to run time off the clock.

Too bad our running game ranked 27th in the NFL this year. That might have a little something to do with it.

So even he agrees the offense was a problem, though it may be something different in a few minutes.

Here\'s some more stats for you, Saints 12 first downs against Seattle. Here\'s the drive chart:

New Orleans Saints

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

# Time
Recd Time
Lost Time
Poss How Ball
Obtained Drive
Began #
Play Yds
Gain Yds
Pen Net
Yds 1st
Down Last
Scrm How
Given Up
1 12:41 11:42 0:59 Punt NO 19 3 3 0 3 0 NO 22 Punt
2 11:09 8:05 3:04 Interception NO 29 5 8 0 8 1 NO 37 Punt
3 6:37 4:10 2:27 Fumble NO 32 6 40 0 40 1 SEA 35 Fumble
4 14:52 12:10 2:42 Kickoff NO 27 4 27 -5 22 1 NO 49 Punt
5 9:18 8:16 1:02 Punt NO 16 3 1 -12 -11 0 NO 5 Punt 6 6:38 2:54 3:44 Kickoff SEA 47 8 52 -5 47 3 *SEA 6 Touchdown
7 0:17 0:00 0:17 Punt NO 16 1 8 0 8 0 NO 16 End of Half
8 15:00 12:59 2:01 Kickoff SEA 47 3 22 -10 12 0 SEA 38 Fumble 9 11:53 9:05 2:48 Punt NO 20 5 35 0 35 2 SEA 45 Punt
10 4:45 3:40 1:05 Punt NO 16 3 3 -5 -2 0 NO 14 Interception
11 3:06 0:27 2:39 Kickoff NO 24 6 32 0 32 2 SEA 44 Punt
12 12:14 9:27 2:47 Punt NO 24 8 57 0 57 2 *SEA 19 Downs
13 4:41 3:53 0:48 Punt NO 24 3 -7 0 -7 0 NO 17 Punt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah I can see how 7 points out of 12 possessions with 4 turnovers(including downs) helps the D.

Let\'s look at another one.

New Orleans Saints

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

# Time
Recd Time
Lost Time
Poss How Ball
Obtained Drive
Began #
Play Yds
Gain Yds
Pen Net
Yds 1st
Down Last
Scrm How
Given Up
1 15:00 8:52 6:08 Kickoff NO 20 11 79 0 79 4 *ARZ 1 Fumble
2 6:49 5:38 1:11 Punt NO 20 3 -1 -5 -6 0 NO 14 Punt
3 4:26 4:16 0:10 Punt NO 49 1 -14 0 -14 0 NO 49 Fumble
4 4:16 14:56 4:20 Kickoff NO 39 8 54 5 59 4 *ARZ 2 Field Goal
5 13:06 11:10 1:56 Punt NO 31 3 8 -5 3 0 NO 34 Punt
6 6:02 3:48 2:14 Fumble NO 1 4 20 0 20 1 NO 21 Punt
7 1:12 0:19 0:53 Kickoff NO 15 4 24 -10 14 1 NO 29 Punt 8 9:54 7:07 2:47 Punt NO 20 5 20 0 20 1 NO 40 Punt 9 1:29 14:54 1:35 Kickoff NO 12 3 13 -10 3 0 NO 15 Punt
10 9:44 8:12 1:32 Kickoff NO 8 3 12 -4 8 0 NO 16 Punt
11 5:02 3:52 1:10 Kickoff NO 20 5 22 -5 17 1 NO 37 Downs 12 1:54 0:00 1:54 Kickoff NO 22 6 28 5 33 2 NO 45 End of Game

It\'s so clear now. Why can\'t I see that 7 punts and three turnovers on 11 possessions has NO EFFECT on the defense? I was so blind this whole time. Give me a break. I could go on and on and on, but it won\'t matter. Believe what you want.

saintfan · 02-23-2005, 05:30 PM

So I can just ignore these right?

I kinda figured you would.

saintswhodi · 02-23-2005, 05:44 PM

Good.

Cause if 5 possessions with a turnover to start the game helps the defense in your mind, I really can\'t say anything else. If not scoring on 10 of 11 possessions and that one score being a field goal while turning the ball over 3 times helps the defense, I guess we define bad offense differently.

saintfan · 02-23-2005, 05:58 PM

Even with our offensive issues, if you look at our defense and decide the offense is to blame then yeah, we define bad differently. Aren\'t you the one complaining about making excuses? :P

GumboBC · 02-23-2005, 06:06 PM

After much thought (about 2-seconds) I have a theory..

Hear me out folks........

Everyone knows our defense is very bad.

Yet, for SOME reason, SOME folks want the offense to take a good portion of the blame.

Who do a LOT of folks think the biggest problem with our offense is?

Okay, answer me this...

Whose fault is it that our offense made our defense look bad?

saintswhodi · 02-23-2005, 06:22 PM

Aren\'t you the one complaining about making excuses?

Now we are getting somewhere. So the excuses are over for EVERYONE?

xan · 02-23-2005, 06:32 PM

OK gumbo, I\'m going to go out on a limb and say

McCarthy

is to blame for the offense.

He knew he had a less than capable (brainwise) qb who couldn\'t audible out of a paper bag,
He knew he had a serviceable backup rb in Stecker,
He knew that the 2 TE formations weren\'t working and had an all pro FB in the making ready to roll,
He knew he had at least 2 WR who could outrun jackels to a rotting corpse.

Yet he still insisted in running a predictable, stilted, confusing offense.

GumboBC · 02-23-2005, 06:51 PM

xan-

The offense certainly didn\'t sustain enough long drives to keep the defense on the bench. And the bench is the only time our defense looked worth a damn in the first 12-games.

So, if you want to blame the offense for not keeping the defense on the bench, you have a great idea.

There\'s only ONE problem with that idea though:

Deuce game by game:

Seattle L- 16 for 57yds -
San Francisco W 3 for-1yd - Deuce got injured.
Arizona L - Did Not Play
Tampa Bay L -21 for 102- fumbled twice and one was run back or a TD.
Minnesota 18 for 78yds
Oakland W 24 for 42 - Averaged 1.8 yards on 24 carries
San Diego L 17 for 43yds.
Denver L 13 for 42yds.
Carolina 7 for 22
Dallas W 30 for 83yds - Averaged 2.8 yards on 30 carries.
Tampa Bay W 25 for 89yds - Averaged 3.5 yards on 25 carries

It\'s mighty hard to run time off the clock when you can\'t run the fooball.

Also, that great Venturi scheme really hurt.

And it\'s hard to play good defense with some of the players we had on defense. That might explain why we need to upgrade this unit.

Here\'s my 3 biggest reasons why the defense sucked through the first 12-games.

1. Rick Venuri\'s scheme!
2. Deuce couldn\'t run the ball because of injury and a terrible offensive line.
3. Not enough talent at certain positions.

GumboBC · 02-23-2005, 07:03 PM

It\'s mighty hard to run time off the clock when you can\'t run the fooball.

Running the ball is the part of the offense right? We are talking about the Offense right? So you admit we couldn\'t run the ball and it hurt us using the clock. Now what is so hard about saying that contributed the the 32nd ranking?

We aren\'t talking about Ab, but I\'m guessin thats what\'s on your mind. No AB alone didn\'t contribute to the 32nd ranking, but all 11 players and coaches did.

Good Job!

Ahhhhhhhhhhh ...

We\'re getting somewhere.

1. I NEVER said the offense didn\'t hurt the defense SOME!
2. Even though we couldn\'t run the football, it still didn\'t have a lot to do with it.

Other teams, like the Dolphins, were worse at running and throwing the football and still finished in the top 10 in defense.

If the Dolphins and other teams had worse offenses than ours and finished in the top 10, then we sure as heck shouldn\'t have finished anywhere near 32nd!!!!!!!

[Edited on 24/2/2005 by GumboBC]

02-23-2005, 05:23 PM	#61
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	3 and outs made our defense look bad? Minnesota -- 425 yards passing (5 TD p ***** in that game) St. Louis -- 358 yards passing Oakland -- 350 yards passing KC -- 311 yards passing Carolina -- 307 yards passing We did do pretty well against teams with Rookies or cast offs at QB tho. Seattle -- 170 yards rushing San Fran -- 180 yards rushing Arizona -- 240 was it...yards rushing Minnesota -- 188 yards rushing SD -- 251 yards rushing Denver -- 200 yards rushing Atlanta -- 186 yards rushing Carolina -- 132 yards rushing Dallas -- 121 yards rushing Tampa Bay -- 169 yards rushing MY GOD!! That is awful!! Our damn OFFENSE couldn\'t stop anyone.. :P [Edited on 23/2/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-23-2005, 05:28 PM	#62
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	3 and outs made our defense look bad? Minnesota -- 425 yards passing (5 TD p *** in that game) St. Louis -- 358 yards passing Oakland -- 350 yards passing KC -- 311 yards passing Carolina -- 307 yards passing We did do pretty well against teams with Rookies or cast offs at QB tho. Seattle -- 170 yards rushing San Fran -- 180 yards rushing Arizona -- 240 was it...yards rushing Minnesota -- 188 yards rushing SD -- 251 yards rushing Denver -- 200 yards rushing Atlanta -- 186 yards rushing Carolina -- 132 yards rushing Dallas -- 121 yards rushing Tampa Bay -- 169 yards rushing I think they held the opposing team to under 100 yards rushing 5 times. I rekon they were just tired tho...you blame the offense for %50 of those numbers then? I\'d say we\'ve got a bigger problem. And yeah, I\'d say we disagree. Our defense was DEAD LAST whodi, and Brooks and the offense wasn\'t the reason, but you think like you wanna think. You ain\'t foolin\' me tho. Didn\'t you just say stats are thrown out all over the place? So I can just ignore these right? And who the hell is talking about Brooks? We are talking about the OFFENSE, or did you forget that? Gumbo, Mr. the offense doesn\'t hurt the defense just said this Running time off the clock certainly helps the defensive ranking. Running the football is the best way to run time off the clock. Too bad our running game ranked 27th in the NFL this year. That might have a little something to do with it. So even he agrees the offense was a problem, though it may be something different in a few minutes. Here\'s some more stats for you, Saints 12 first downs against Seattle. Here\'s the drive chart: New Orleans Saints -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Time Recd Time Lost Time Poss How Ball Obtained Drive Began # Play Yds Gain Yds Pen Net Yds 1st Down Last Scrm How Given Up 1 12:41 11:42 0:59 Punt NO 19 3 3 0 3 0 NO 22 Punt 2 11:09 8:05 3:04 Interception NO 29 5 8 0 8 1 NO 37 Punt 3 6:37 4:10 2:27 Fumble NO 32 6 40 0 40 1 SEA 35 Fumble 4 14:52 12:10 2:42 Kickoff NO 27 4 27 -5 22 1 NO 49 Punt 5 9:18 8:16 1:02 Punt NO 16 3 1 -12 -11 0 NO 5 Punt** 6 6:38 2:54 3:44 Kickoff SEA 47 8 52 -5 47 3 SEA 6 Touchdown* 7 0:17 0:00 0:17 Punt NO 16 1 8 0 8 0 NO 16 End of Half 8 15:00 12:59 2:01 Kickoff SEA 47 3 22 -10 12 0 SEA 38 Fumble 9 11:53 9:05 2:48 Punt NO 20 5 35 0 35 2 SEA 45 Punt 10 4:45 3:40 1:05 Punt NO 16 3 3 -5 -2 0 NO 14 Interception 11 3:06 0:27 2:39 Kickoff NO 24 6 32 0 32 2 SEA 44 Punt 12 12:14 9:27 2:47 Punt NO 24 8 57 0 57 2 SEA 19 Downs* 13 4:41 3:53 0:48 Punt NO 24 3 -7 0 -7 0 NO 17 Punt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah I can see how 7 points out of 12 possessions with 4 turnovers(including downs) helps the D. Let\'s look at another one. New Orleans Saints -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Time Recd Time Lost Time Poss How Ball Obtained Drive Began # Play Yds Gain Yds Pen Net Yds 1st Down Last Scrm How Given Up 1 15:00 8:52 6:08 Kickoff NO 20 11 79 0 79 4 ARZ 1 Fumble* 2 6:49 5:38 1:11 Punt NO 20 3 -1 -5 -6 0 NO 14 Punt 3 4:26 4:16 0:10 Punt NO 49 1 -14 0 -14 0 NO 49 Fumble 4 4:16 14:56 4:20 Kickoff NO 39 8 54 5 59 4 ARZ 2 Field Goal* 5 13:06 11:10 1:56 Punt NO 31 3 8 -5 3 0 NO 34 Punt 6 6:02 3:48 2:14 Fumble NO 1 4 20 0 20 1 NO 21 Punt 7 1:12 0:19 0:53 Kickoff NO 15 4 24 -10 14 1 NO 29 Punt 8 9:54 7:07 2:47 Punt NO 20 5 20 0 20 1 NO 40 Punt 9 1:29 14:54 1:35 Kickoff NO 12 3 13 -10 3 0 NO 15 Punt 10 9:44 8:12 1:32 Kickoff NO 8 3 12 -4 8 0 NO 16 Punt 11 5:02 3:52 1:10 Kickoff NO 20 5 22 -5 17 1 NO 37 Downs 12 1:54 0:00 1:54 Kickoff NO 22 6 28 5 33 2 NO 45 End of Game It\'s so clear now. Why can\'t I see that 7 punts and three turnovers on 11 possessions has NO EFFECT on the defense? I was so blind this whole time. Give me a break. I could go on and on and on, but it won\'t matter. Believe what you want.

02-23-2005, 05:30 PM	#63
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	3 and outs made our defense look bad? So I can just ignore these right? I kinda figured you would.

02-23-2005, 05:44 PM	#64
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	3 and outs made our defense look bad? Good. Cause if 5 possessions with a turnover to start the game helps the defense in your mind, I really can\'t say anything else. If not scoring on 10 of 11 possessions and that one score being a field goal while turning the ball over 3 times helps the defense, I guess we define bad offense differently.

02-23-2005, 05:58 PM	#65
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	3 and outs made our defense look bad? Even with our offensive issues, if you look at our defense and decide the offense is to blame then yeah, we define bad differently. Aren\'t you the one complaining about making excuses? :P

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02-23-2005, 06:06 PM	#66
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	3 and outs made our defense look bad? After much thought (about 2-seconds) I have a theory.. Hear me out folks........ Everyone knows our defense is very bad. Yet, for SOME reason, SOME folks want the offense to take a good portion of the blame. Who do a LOT of folks think the biggest problem with our offense is? Okay, answer me this... Whose fault is it that our offense made our defense look bad?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-23-2005, 06:22 PM	#67
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	3 and outs made our defense look bad? Aren\'t you the one complaining about making excuses? Now we are getting somewhere. So the excuses are over for EVERYONE?

02-23-2005, 06:32 PM	#68
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	3 and outs made our defense look bad? OK gumbo, I\'m going to go out on a limb and say McCarthy is to blame for the offense. He knew he had a less than capable (brainwise) qb who couldn\'t audible out of a paper bag, He knew he had a serviceable backup rb in Stecker, He knew that the 2 TE formations weren\'t working and had an all pro FB in the making ready to roll, He knew he had at least 2 WR who could outrun jackels to a rotting corpse. Yet he still insisted in running a predictable, stilted, confusing offense.

02-23-2005, 06:51 PM	#69
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	3 and outs made our defense look bad? xan- The offense certainly didn\'t sustain enough long drives to keep the defense on the bench. And the bench is the only time our defense looked worth a damn in the first 12-games. So, if you want to blame the offense for not keeping the defense on the bench, you have a great idea. There\'s only ONE problem with that idea though: Deuce game by game: Seattle L- 16 for 57yds - San Francisco W 3 for-1yd - Deuce got injured. Arizona L - Did Not Play Tampa Bay L -21 for 102- fumbled twice and one was run back or a TD. Minnesota 18 for 78yds Oakland W 24 for 42 - Averaged 1.8 yards on 24 carries San Diego L 17 for 43yds. Denver L 13 for 42yds. Carolina 7 for 22 Dallas W 30 for 83yds - Averaged 2.8 yards on 30 carries. Tampa Bay W 25 for 89yds - Averaged 3.5 yards on 25 carries It\'s mighty hard to run time off the clock when you can\'t run the fooball. Also, that great Venturi scheme really hurt. And it\'s hard to play good defense with some of the players we had on defense. That might explain why we need to upgrade this unit. Here\'s my 3 biggest reasons why the defense sucked through the first 12-games. 1. Rick Venuri\'s scheme! 2. Deuce couldn\'t run the ball because of injury and a terrible offensive line. 3. Not enough talent at certain positions.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-23-2005, 07:03 PM	#70
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	3 and outs made our defense look bad? It\'s mighty hard to run time off the clock when you can\'t run the fooball. Running the ball is the part of the offense right? We are talking about the Offense right? So you admit we couldn\'t run the ball and it hurt us using the clock. Now what is so hard about saying that contributed the the 32nd ranking? We aren\'t talking about Ab, but I\'m guessin thats what\'s on your mind. No AB alone didn\'t contribute to the 32nd ranking, but all 11 players and coaches did. Good Job! Ahhhhhhhhhhh ... We\'re getting somewhere. 1. I NEVER said the offense didn\'t hurt the defense SOME! 2. Even though we couldn\'t run the football, it still didn\'t have a lot to do with it. Other teams, like the Dolphins, were worse at running and throwing the football and still finished in the top 10 in defense. If the Dolphins and other teams had worse offenses than ours and finished in the top 10, then we sure as heck shouldn\'t have finished anywhere near 32nd!!!!!!! [Edited on 24/2/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616