For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength

vpheughan · 12-30-2015, 02:06 PM

Over 40+ yards:
Carson Palmer, Eli Manning & big Ben have 15
In 2nd place with 13 is Drew Brees.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

Danno · 12-30-2015, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

Over 40+ yards:
Carson Palmer, Eli Manning & big Ben have 15
In 2nd place with 13 is Drew Brees.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

I think that also includes YAC.

jnormand · 12-30-2015, 03:38 PM

Why is everyone jumping the OPs ass? He's right. Drew Brees and the whole "noodle arm" thing is bs. He's bringing up stats that justify his conclusion. Now I know Brees doesn't have a "cannon" but his arm strength is fine. Better than a lot of others around here who just ***** and act like they know what's best for the entire franchise.

Rell&Gold · 01-01-2016, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

WhoDat, I'm sorry, but this is just pointless. When people think about arm strength and deep passes, they are only taking into account balls that are actually deep passes. Not 20 yarders.

Show me a stat of 35 plus yard passes, and let's see where he ranks. And by the way, no one was "questioning" his arm strength in the beginning of the year... It was a statement of fact. He couldn't EVEN throw it 20 yards. He got healthier, and got back to being decent but he's never been a strong armed QB. What was alarming, was that he didn't even have zip within the range of throws we were used to him making.

That was something anyone could see. If you want to question people's fandom because they point out the obvious and don't just kiss a**, then you have a problem. Not us.

He couldn't throw the ball 20 yards are you serious? & some of you were saying he couldn't throw before he got hurt

Danno · 01-01-2016, 02:45 PM

For the 'fans' questioning the 'fans'...

There were two types of 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength.

Those that questioned it before he hurt his shoulder this year, and yes, they were wrong. He has always had adequate arm strength. Not a strong arm but not a weak one either.

Then there were those that noticed he couldn't get any zip on the ball at all after he hurt his shoulder this year. They were right. That lasted 3 or 4 weeks and it was pretty obvious he'd lost a lot of zip on the ball.

He slowly regained his arm strength and now looks to be the same old Drew.

Beastmode · 01-01-2016, 03:18 PM

Don't need great strength but his lack of it...many times I've seen him float deep, receiver having to slow or come back for it. It's a trade off though. He's probably one of the best balances of power and accuracy, lean more towards accuracy which is actually what you want. Normally when they have too much strength accuracy suffers. Billy Joe Tolliver had one of the strongest arms I've seen along with Testerverde. Fun to watch when they connect but that was about the extent of it, they struggled with the finesse of passing which is more important.

Boutte · 01-01-2016, 08:38 PM

There were a lot of people questioning Brees' value at the start of the season. Not just his arm but his total game and even his dedication to the team. He's accused of being a stat whore who only cares about breaking records. Team be damned! What that was really all about is his contract. They think he should play for way under his market value so we can keep over paying mediocre talent and F/A pipe dreams.

Because that's how Super Bowls are won.

burningmetal · 01-01-2016, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

The link I posted was not limited to 20 yards; it was for 20 yards AND LONGER! I did a cursory search and found that Brees' longest pass of the year was 80 yards.

Yes..... I know. I'm saying TAKE OUT the dinky 20 yarders from that stat and actually rate actual DEEP passes, and you would have a far different stat. Why? Because most of what he throws "downfield" is no longer than 20 to maybe 25 yards. So given that the stat you looked up is including those, Brees' stats are mostly going to be driven by those shorter, so-called "deep" passes. Know what I'm saying?

And you and I both know Drew never threw a pass 80 yards. That was 20 yard pass that Spiller ran the last 60. That's not a deep pass. Therein lies another problem with using these kind of stats... If it's counting distance of the play and not the actual distance the ball was thrown, then it is an invalid and useless statistic.

burningmetal · 01-01-2016, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

He couldn't throw the ball 20 yards are you serious? & some of you were saying he couldn't throw before he got hurt

When he got hurt in the Tampa game? Yes, he couldn't throw it 20 yards, and missed the next game because of it. Go back and watch and think about what you're saying before trying to call me out.

I never said he couldn't throw the ball 20 yards at ANY POINT in his career. I clearly stated "in the beginning of the year".

Some of you are too freaking attached to Drew, to the point that you don't want to hear any opinion that isn't slobbering all over his greatness, and take facts that are meant only as just exactly that... FACTS... and turn it into "you guys hating on Drew should be ashamed of yourselves". There are very, VERY few people who actually think Drew sucks. It's not a debate of whether he's a good QB. If you're talking about arm strength alone, Drew has always relied on timing. Which is fine... But it has nothing to do with this argument. When he got hurt, however, he had no ZIP, he couldn't get the ball downfield AT ALL, and it was obvious. We all knew he was hurt at that point. Nobody said he wasn't.

burningmetal · 01-01-2016, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Boutte

There were a lot of people questioning Brees' value at the start of the season. Not just his arm but his total game and even his dedication to the team. He's accused of being a stat whore who only cares about breaking records. Team be damned! What that was really all about is his contract. They think he should play for way under his market value so we can keep over paying mediocre talent and F/A pipe dreams.

Because that's how Super Bowls are won.

Here we go again with this... By "a lot of people" do you mean a couple of random comments? Anybody can get mad after a game and talk about a guy being done, or whatever, but how many people actually questioned his dedication? Almost every comment I read, or have written myself, that has even the slightest bit of negative about his play on the field is prefaced by "I love drew, and he's a warrior, but"... or something along those lines. You're talking about a really rare person who comes out bashing his character.

When you DO have a huge contract like he does there will be extra expectation, as there should be, and Drew knows it. Ask the Baltimore Ravens how awesome their QB's were in their two Superbowl wins. The freaking Bucs won a Superbowl with Brad Johnson of all people. What's my point? It still takes a team to win a championship, no matter how much ridiculous money they want to pay QB's. When you take up that much money, you better earn it. That's how it goes.

Do you feel sorry for him? I don't. I think the money he's made will soften the pressure just a bit. He took the money they gave him. Players aren't worth near the money they make these days, but I get it from the players perspective. They're not going to turn it down. Just know that you will be expected to do things that might not be reasonable. Saying he doesn't have the strongest arm is not an attack. It's common knowledge.

12-30-2015, 02:06 PM	#11
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,522	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength Over 40+ yards: Carson Palmer, Eli Manning & big Ben have 15 In 2nd place with 13 is Drew Brees. NFL Stats: by Player Category Beastmode likes this.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,522

12-30-2015, 02:44 PM	#12
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength Originally Posted by vpheughan Over 40+ yards: Carson Palmer, Eli Manning & big Ben have 15 In 2nd place with 13 is Drew Brees. NFL Stats: by Player Category I think that also includes YAC.

12-30-2015, 03:38 PM	#13
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,662	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength Why is everyone jumping the OPs ass? He's right. Drew Brees and the whole "noodle arm" thing is bs. He's bringing up stats that justify his conclusion. Now I know Brees doesn't have a "cannon" but his arm strength is fine. Better than a lot of others around here who just ***** and act like they know what's best for the entire franchise. Rell&Gold likes this.

01-01-2016, 01:48 PM	#14
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,887	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength Originally Posted by burningmetal WhoDat, I'm sorry, but this is just pointless. When people think about arm strength and deep passes, they are only taking into account balls that are actually deep passes. Not 20 yarders. Show me a stat of 35 plus yard passes, and let's see where he ranks. And by the way, no one was "questioning" his arm strength in the beginning of the year... It was a statement of fact. He couldn't EVEN throw it 20 yards. He got healthier, and got back to being decent but he's never been a strong armed QB. What was alarming, was that he didn't even have zip within the range of throws we were used to him making. That was something anyone could see. If you want to question people's fandom because they point out the obvious and don't just kiss a**, then you have a problem. Not us. He couldn't throw the ball 20 yards are you serious? & some of you were saying he couldn't throw before he got hurt

01-01-2016, 02:45 PM	#15
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength For the 'fans' questioning the 'fans'... There were two types of 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength. Those that questioned it before he hurt his shoulder this year, and yes, they were wrong. He has always had adequate arm strength. Not a strong arm but not a weak one either. Then there were those that noticed he couldn't get any zip on the ball at all after he hurt his shoulder this year. They were right. That lasted 3 or 4 weeks and it was pretty obvious he'd lost a lot of zip on the ball. He slowly regained his arm strength and now looks to be the same old Drew.

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01-01-2016, 03:18 PM	#16
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength Don't need great strength but his lack of it...many times I've seen him float deep, receiver having to slow or come back for it. It's a trade off though. He's probably one of the best balances of power and accuracy, lean more towards accuracy which is actually what you want. Normally when they have too much strength accuracy suffers. Billy Joe Tolliver had one of the strongest arms I've seen along with Testerverde. Fun to watch when they connect but that was about the extent of it, they struggled with the finesse of passing which is more important. jnormand and Boutte like this.
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01-01-2016, 08:38 PM	#17
Boutte Site Donor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belle Chasse Posts: 1,701	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength There were a lot of people questioning Brees' value at the start of the season. Not just his arm but his total game and even his dedication to the team. He's accused of being a stat whore who only cares about breaking records. Team be damned! What that was really all about is his contract. They think he should play for way under his market value so we can keep over paying mediocre talent and F/A pipe dreams. Because that's how Super Bowls are won.

01-01-2016, 10:05 PM	#18
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 The link I posted was not limited to 20 yards; it was for 20 yards AND LONGER! I did a cursory search and found that Brees' longest pass of the year was 80 yards. Yes..... I know. I'm saying TAKE OUT the dinky 20 yarders from that stat and actually rate actual DEEP passes, and you would have a far different stat. Why? Because most of what he throws "downfield" is no longer than 20 to maybe 25 yards. So given that the stat you looked up is including those, Brees' stats are mostly going to be driven by those shorter, so-called "deep" passes. Know what I'm saying? And you and I both know Drew never threw a pass 80 yards. That was 20 yard pass that Spiller ran the last 60. That's not a deep pass. Therein lies another problem with using these kind of stats... If it's counting distance of the play and not the actual distance the ball was thrown, then it is an invalid and useless statistic.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

01-01-2016, 10:09 PM	#19
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength Originally Posted by Rell&Gold He couldn't throw the ball 20 yards are you serious? & some of you were saying he couldn't throw before he got hurt When he got hurt in the Tampa game? Yes, he couldn't throw it 20 yards, and missed the next game because of it. Go back and watch and think about what you're saying before trying to call me out. I never said he couldn't throw the ball 20 yards at ANY POINT in his career. I clearly stated "in the beginning of the year". Some of you are too freaking attached to Drew, to the point that you don't want to hear any opinion that isn't slobbering all over his greatness, and take facts that are meant only as just exactly that... FACTS... and turn it into "you guys hating on Drew should be ashamed of yourselves". There are very, VERY few people who actually think Drew sucks. It's not a debate of whether he's a good QB. If you're talking about arm strength alone, Drew has always relied on timing. Which is fine... But it has nothing to do with this argument. When he got hurt, however, he had no ZIP, he couldn't get the ball downfield AT ALL, and it was obvious. We all knew he was hurt at that point. Nobody said he wasn't.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

01-01-2016, 10:42 PM	#20
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: For the 'fans' that questioned Brees' arm strength Originally Posted by Boutte There were a lot of people questioning Brees' value at the start of the season. Not just his arm but his total game and even his dedication to the team. He's accused of being a stat whore who only cares about breaking records. Team be damned! What that was really all about is his contract. They think he should play for way under his market value so we can keep over paying mediocre talent and F/A pipe dreams. Because that's how Super Bowls are won. Here we go again with this... By "a lot of people" do you mean a couple of random comments? Anybody can get mad after a game and talk about a guy being done, or whatever, but how many people actually questioned his dedication? Almost every comment I read, or have written myself, that has even the slightest bit of negative about his play on the field is prefaced by "I love drew, and he's a warrior, but"... or something along those lines. You're talking about a really rare person who comes out bashing his character. When you DO have a huge contract like he does there will be extra expectation, as there should be, and Drew knows it. Ask the Baltimore Ravens how awesome their QB's were in their two Superbowl wins. The freaking Bucs won a Superbowl with Brad Johnson of all people. What's my point? It still takes a team to win a championship, no matter how much ridiculous money they want to pay QB's. When you take up that much money, you better earn it. That's how it goes. Do you feel sorry for him? I don't. I think the money he's made will soften the pressure just a bit. He took the money they gave him. Players aren't worth near the money they make these days, but I get it from the players perspective. They're not going to turn it down. Just know that you will be expected to do things that might not be reasonable. Saying he doesn't have the strongest arm is not an attack. It's common knowledge.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

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