2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk

saintswhodi · 02-25-2005, 02:45 PM

Hey, cause you are close minded and have formed an opinion that you are unwilling to change, I guess ANYONE will lose against that. Did you read the title of the thread, or did you think you were in the DEFENSE SUCKS thread? Weren\'t you also the one arguing with me that WE WOULD NOT franchise Howard? Okay. Thanks. :P

[Edited on 25/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

GumboBC · 02-25-2005, 02:52 PM

Y\'all want to know what REALLY happend in the first quarter of the Seattle game?

Saints fist drive:

1-10-NO19 (12:41) D.McAllister right guard to NO 22 for 3 yards (R.Moore, T.Bierria).

2-7-NO22 (12:01) A.Brooks pass incomplete to E.Conwell.

3-7-NO22 (11:58) A.Brooks pass incomplete to J.Pathon.

4-7-NO22 (11:53) M.Berger punts 40 yards to SEA 38, Center-K.Houser. B.Engram to SEA 46 for 8 yards (M.Mitchell).

Saints 2nd drive:

1-10-NO29 (11:09) A.Brooks pass to J.Horn to NO 37 for 8 yards (O.Huff). Pass 5, Run 3

2-2-NO37 (10:35) D.McAllister right end to NO 41 for 4 yards (C.Woodard, T.Bierria).

1-10-NO41 (9:56) A.Brooks pass to D.Stallworth to NO 46 for 5 yards (T.Bierria). Pass 5, Run 0

2-5-NO46 (9:21) D.McAllister right tackle to NO 46 for no gain (R.Moore).

3-5-NO46 (8:39) (Shotgun) A.Brook sacked at NO 37 for -9 yards (C.Okeafor, G.Wistrom).

4-14-NO37 (8:13) M.Berger punts 32 yards to SEA 31, Center-K.Houser, fair catch by B.Engram.

Saints 3rd drive:

1-10-SEA32 (6:37) A.Brooks pass incomplete to D.Stallworth.

2-10-NO32 (6:29) (Shotgun) D.McAllister right guard to NO 37 for 5 yards (A.Simmons).

3-5-NO37 (5:45) (Shotgun) A.Brooks pass to J.Horn to SEA 34 for 29 yards (C.Woodard). Pass 13, Run 16

1-10-SEA34 (5:03) D.McAllister right end to SEA 35 for - 1 yards (A.Simmons).

2-11-SEA35 (4:25) A.Brooks pass incomplete to D.McAllister (M.Trufant).

3-11-SEA35 (4:19) (Shotgun) A.Brooks pass to B.Williams to SEA 28 for 7 yards (B.Taylor). FUMBLES (B.Taylor), touched at SEA 21, RECOVERED by SEA-K.Lucas at SEA 21. K.Lucas ran ob at SEA 24 for 3 yards ( B.Williams fumbles recoverd by Seattle.

shadowdrinker · 02-25-2005, 02:57 PM

As I recall..I replied to xanz\' post..and you started in on me...And you got shut down...

Howard is niether here nor there..maybe you should take your own advice about reading the title of the thread?

Thanks :P

Dead last in yards...thats just a fact buddy....was the Offense dead last in yards..? or in points?...no...they weren\'t strong enough to carry the weak D...and we are left with yet another 8-8..

you can get mad at me all you want...but..It\'s not going to make the D better...the stats are factual...and speak for themselves...

saintswhodi · 02-25-2005, 02:58 PM

Somebody else please explain this thread is about the OFFENSE hurting the defense, and that causing the defense to look worse. Please please explain, cause I fear simple English is wasted on some. THE OFFENSE. THE OFFENSE. I really have no explanation for those who disagree by making your point for you. There is really no point in even debating. This is too funny.

xrotflmao: I guess I should say thanks for clarifying my point on how the OFFENSE was hurting the defense, but what\'s the point. I like it this way. :casstet:

GumboBC · 02-25-2005, 02:59 PM

As I recall..I replied to xanz\' post..and you started in on me...And you got shut down...

Howard is niether here nor there..maybe you should take your own advice about reading the title of the thread?

Thanks :P

Dead last in yards...thats just a fact buddy....was the Offense dead last in yards..? or in points?...no...they weren\'t strong enough to carry the weak D...and we are left with yet another 8-8..

you can get mad at me all you want...but..It\'s not going to make the D better...the stats are factual...and speak for themselves...

Amen!!! I can\'t even begin to understand why folks want to defend the defense. Venturi for president..LMAO!! :P

xan · 02-25-2005, 02:59 PM

Just for clarification, the Saints D allowed 6.375 points per gaime in the 1st quarter NET (1 safety).

In 4 blowout losses at the end of the 1st quarter

AZ 7 NO 0
1 RZ fumble
1 fumble returned for score

SD 14 NO 0
1 INT negating long drive

DEN 20 NO 0
1 Short Field TD
1 Short Field FG
1 Fumble

CAR13 NO 0
1 Short Field TD
1 Short Field FG
1 Fumble

My interpretation:
54 points allowed in these losses (out of the total 106 points allowed by the defense all season in the 1st quarter) where the offense was responsible for 20 points the D allowed due to short field turnovers (where the opponent didn\'t score on the turnover itself). That\'s about 37% of the adverse scoring due to the Offense in those blowouts in the 1st quarter alone.

Any chinks in the armor of the \"Defense Sucks\" crowd yet?

Danno · 02-25-2005, 03:00 PM

No offense to any of you guys because you have proven you\'re not complete idiots, but I\'ve been a fan since 69, and an obsessed Saints FANATIC for about 10 years, and the 2004 Saints were absolutely unequivocally the WORST defense I\'ve ever seen wearing the Black and Gold.
They did improve toward the end of the season and that gives me hope for 2005, but the 2004 version was flat horrid. And I\'m not about to make a single excuse for them because thats exactly what it would be, AN EXCUSE.
I\'ll admit the offense didn\'t help, but even if our offense was #1 in the league, I THINK our defense would have finished about mid 20\'s at best. If that gets tingly then good for you, but it leaves me quite cold.

[Edited on 25/2/2005 by Someone who actually watches the fricking games]

[Edited on 25/2/2005 by Danno]

shadowdrinker · 02-25-2005, 03:01 PM

give me the overall rank of the D..

Then tell me the overall rank of the Offense

Nuff said

saintswhodi · 02-25-2005, 03:01 PM

Well shadow, explain the stat that we were 10th in the league in takeaways with our defense. Please. Feel free. Explain that one away.

The Darren howard point just shows how stubborn you can be when you have your mind set. I can pull the thread out and show you how long it took me and several others to explain it, AND where you started your own thread saying it wouldn\'t happen. It\'s not about being off topic of this thread, it is about reminding myself who I am disagreeing with so I don\'t waste both of our time.

shadowdrinker · 02-25-2005, 03:09 PM

Howard himself was quoted as saying the team would not use the tag...you gonna write him a letter?...

10th in takeaways...last in yards...and just about dead last in each and every single stat related to the Defense...

Believe whatever you want....I just cannot belive that after last years performance..that there would be any person alive who would praise the Defense...I stand corrected..

02-25-2005, 02:45 PM	#11
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk Hey, cause you are close minded and have formed an opinion that you are unwilling to change, I guess ANYONE will lose against that. Did you read the title of the thread, or did you think you were in the DEFENSE SUCKS thread? Weren\'t you also the one arguing with me that WE WOULD NOT franchise Howard? Okay. Thanks. :P [Edited on 25/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

02-25-2005, 02:52 PM	#12
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk Y\'all want to know what REALLY happend in the first quarter of the Seattle game? Saints fist drive: 1-10-NO19 (12:41) D.McAllister right guard to NO 22 for 3 yards (R.Moore, T.Bierria). 2-7-NO22 (12:01) A.Brooks pass incomplete to E.Conwell. 3-7-NO22 (11:58) A.Brooks pass incomplete to J.Pathon. 4-7-NO22 (11:53) M.Berger punts 40 yards to SEA 38, Center-K.Houser. B.Engram to SEA 46 for 8 yards (M.Mitchell). Saints 2nd drive: 1-10-NO29 (11:09) A.Brooks pass to J.Horn to NO 37 for 8 yards (O.Huff). Pass 5, Run 3 2-2-NO37 (10:35) D.McAllister right end to NO 41 for 4 yards (C.Woodard, T.Bierria). 1-10-NO41 (9:56) A.Brooks pass to D.Stallworth to NO 46 for 5 yards (T.Bierria). Pass 5, Run 0 2-5-NO46 (9:21) D.McAllister right tackle to NO 46 for no gain (R.Moore). 3-5-NO46 (8:39) (Shotgun) A.Brook sacked at NO 37 for -9 yards (C.Okeafor, G.Wistrom). 4-14-NO37 (8:13) M.Berger punts 32 yards to SEA 31, Center-K.Houser, fair catch by B.Engram. Saints 3rd drive: 1-10-SEA32 (6:37) A.Brooks pass incomplete to D.Stallworth. 2-10-NO32 (6:29) (Shotgun) D.McAllister right guard to NO 37 for 5 yards (A.Simmons). 3-5-NO37 (5:45) (Shotgun) A.Brooks pass to J.Horn to SEA 34 for 29 yards (C.Woodard). Pass 13, Run 16 1-10-SEA34 (5:03) D.McAllister right end to SEA 35 for - 1 yards (A.Simmons). 2-11-SEA35 (4:25) A.Brooks pass incomplete to D.McAllister (M.Trufant). 3-11-SEA35 (4:19) (Shotgun) A.Brooks pass to B.Williams to SEA 28 for 7 yards (B.Taylor). FUMBLES (B.Taylor), touched at SEA 21, RECOVERED by SEA-K.Lucas at SEA 21. K.Lucas ran ob at SEA 24 for 3 yards ( B.Williams fumbles recoverd by Seattle.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

02-25-2005, 02:57 PM	#13
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk As I recall..I replied to xanz\' post..and you started in on me...And you got shut down... Howard is niether here nor there..maybe you should take your own advice about reading the title of the thread? Thanks :P Dead last in yards...thats just a fact buddy....was the Offense dead last in yards..? or in points?...no...they weren\'t strong enough to carry the weak D...and we are left with yet another 8-8.. you can get mad at me all you want...but..It\'s not going to make the D better...the stats are factual...and speak for themselves...
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

02-25-2005, 02:58 PM	#14
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk Somebody else please explain this thread is about the OFFENSE hurting the defense, and that causing the defense to look worse. Please please explain, cause I fear simple English is wasted on some. THE OFFENSE. THE OFFENSE. I really have no explanation for those who disagree by making your point for you. There is really no point in even debating. This is too funny. xrotflmao: I guess I should say thanks for clarifying my point on how the OFFENSE was hurting the defense, but what\'s the point. I like it this way. :casstet:

02-25-2005, 02:59 PM	#15
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk As I recall..I replied to xanz\' post..and you started in on me...And you got shut down... Howard is niether here nor there..maybe you should take your own advice about reading the title of the thread? Thanks :P Dead last in yards...thats just a fact buddy....was the Offense dead last in yards..? or in points?...no...they weren\'t strong enough to carry the weak D...and we are left with yet another 8-8.. you can get mad at me all you want...but..It\'s not going to make the D better...the stats are factual...and speak for themselves... Amen!!! I can\'t even begin to understand why folks want to defend the defense. Venturi for president..LMAO!! :P
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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02-25-2005, 02:59 PM	#16
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,371 Blog Entries: 34	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk Just for clarification, the Saints D allowed 6.375 points per gaime in the 1st quarter NET (1 safety). In 4 blowout losses at the end of the 1st quarter AZ 7 NO 0 1 RZ fumble 1 fumble returned for score SD 14 NO 0 1 INT negating long drive DEN 20 NO 0 1 Short Field TD 1 Short Field FG 1 Fumble CAR13 NO 0 1 Short Field TD 1 Short Field FG 1 Fumble My interpretation: 54 points allowed in these losses (out of the total 106 points allowed by the defense all season in the 1st quarter) where the offense was responsible for 20 points the D allowed due to short field turnovers (where the opponent didn\'t score on the turnover itself). That\'s about 37% of the adverse scoring due to the Offense in those blowouts in the 1st quarter alone. Any chinks in the armor of the \"Defense Sucks\" crowd yet?
	Calvin: "I wish I was a Tiger." Hobbes: "Common lament."

02-25-2005, 03:00 PM	#17
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk No offense to any of you guys because you have proven you\'re not complete idiots, but I\'ve been a fan since 69, and an obsessed Saints FANATIC for about 10 years, and the 2004 Saints were absolutely unequivocally the WORST defense I\'ve ever seen wearing the Black and Gold. They did improve toward the end of the season and that gives me hope for 2005, but the 2004 version was flat horrid. And I\'m not about to make a single excuse for them because thats exactly what it would be, AN EXCUSE. I\'ll admit the offense didn\'t help, but even if our offense was #1 in the league, I THINK our defense would have finished about mid 20\'s at best. If that gets tingly then good for you, but it leaves me quite cold. [Edited on 25/2/2005 by Someone who actually watches the fricking games] [Edited on 25/2/2005 by Danno]

02-25-2005, 03:01 PM	#18
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk give me the overall rank of the D.. Then tell me the overall rank of the Offense Nuff said
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517

02-25-2005, 03:09 PM	#20
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	2004 Defensive Performance not as bad as you thinnk Howard himself was quoted as saying the team would not use the tag...you gonna write him a letter?... 10th in takeaways...last in yards...and just about dead last in each and every single stat related to the Defense... Believe whatever you want....I just cannot belive that after last years performance..that there would be any person alive who would praise the Defense...I stand corrected..
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517