saintswhodi

Euph, we agree on something. I can\'t recall if we have agreed much previously, but for some reason I feel like celebrating the fact. If Smith is there at 16, we have to take him. Have to. I don\'t see how we have a choice. The error is in moving up for him though. The other thing may be if Smith is there, maybe a team behind us will wanna move up and get him, giving us more picks. Baltimore did it for Boller and buffalo did it last year for Losman. That\'s another possibility. I have read too much about us possibly trading up with the Titans, and I don\'t believe it is for Smith. If DJ is there, we will prob make a run at him there. But I ONLY agree with moving up for Smith if we are trading AB for something also. I can not see how it would work to have both of them here. But we can use whatever we gain from getting AB to put around Smith to help him, whether it be picks or a player. I still have a hard time believing Denny Green wouldn\'t want AB if he doesn\'t draft a QB early. High second for AB? Also Euph, you are gonna have to enlighten me on the Brees debate. I have forgotten what that one was about.

Tomb, I dig what you are saying. I agree with trading up, just not for Smith. For DJ or even PacMan, but not for Smith. All those AB arguments you have, I have made them. Believe me. I know where you are coming from. But with AB still on the team, it is not a good move to get Smith, or at least to move up for him. I just can\'t see it working like a San Diego. Brees had no delusions he was a great QB, he just worked his butt off and made himself indispensible. He is also only 25. I don\'t think we will get the same from AB. The very least is you can expect an article to pop up about how unappreciated he is cause we drafted a QB of the future. No thank you.

I also agree with you on your point to JTS. Just cause this team BLEW the Sully pick, does not mean it is a bad idea to move up for a player. They just reached horribly for Sully. Kiper was shocked at the pick, I can still see his face. Sully woulda been there at 17. That move was bad on scouting and evaluation\'s end. If we had taken Kevin Williams, we would be more than satisfied. Or even Trufant. They just blew it. I don\'t expect that to happen again were we to move up.

mutineer10

I\'ll join the \"don\'t want to trade up for Smith\" crowd. I\'m not conviced there\'s a great future QB in this year\'s class. I\'m no more impressed with Alex Smith than I was with Akili Smith a few years ago ... and we all know how that turned out (look for him in NFL Europe this year).

But since we\'re on QB\'s, anybody know why Jason Campbell refused to work out? I know some folks on here were interested in him, but I don\'t think he helped his case by thumbing his nose at the combine.

As for trading up/down in the draft, barring a move for Derrick Johnson (which would likely be more costly than it\'s worth), the only way I\'d like to see us move is DOWN. One nice thing about this year\'s class is that it\'s pretty evenly matched, especially in players who\'ll be taken in rounds 3-5. Nothing wrong with trying to snag a few more draft picks. After all, the more picks we\'ve got, the more likely we\'ll actually score with one!

baronm

he has a gut..so i\'m guessing he went out partying once the season was over instead of getting in shape.

TheJudge

like the ricky williams move?

Euphoria

UGh... let me chime in here again...

Don\'t belive Mocks! OPINIONS - based on needs... its all malarky. Everyone has a mock, everyone thinks they know whats going to happen. Its to crazy and a waste of time really. I know even I can get wrapped up in it all but I do come down to reality from it all.
AS will not be there at 16, top 10 he will be gone. Don\'t believe the hype. Don\'t see up picking up a QB at all in this draft. If anyone as seen QB Kingsbury? Keep an eye on him, seen him and seems to be coming along.
The other point I\'d like to make again is that you aren\'t going to find the ONE difference maker to win us championships. We need to develop and get a host of talent in, we have to many holes, sure lets get one \'difference maker\' and pay him a butt load and not win anything, then have to trade him away in a few years. Pick best talent available 16... alex Barron maybe there. I am all for trading down and snagging extra pics brining in more young talent and developing them.

Yeah I think we should trade a few players and pics and move up to draft Sullivan... didn\'t we do that already.






[Edited on 2/3/2005 by Euphoria]

E U P H O R I A

GoldenTomb

WHOA...championships!? Who said anything about championships?! The Saints have to crawl before they can walk. I don\'t think you\'re listening to what I\'m saying. History shows that scouting is not this regime\'s strong suit. Trading down would just give them more picks to botch up, as they never pick the best player available in the later rounds. I have never remembered the Saints being CLOSE to having the best draft class out of the NFL. I\'m not saying for us to put all of our eggs in one basket. I don\'t know if there has ever been one person in the history of the NFL that can bring a team to a championship. However, I am not of the mentality of \"Let\'s get 20 draft picks and see how many pan out\".

For the Saints, a bird in the hand is worth much more than 2 in the bush. If they have the opportunity to trade up to get DJ, it\'s a no brainer to pull the trigger on the deal, rather than take a bigger chance on someone who will be at 16. If we pulled the trade, most likely we\'d only lose Howard(who we aren\'t keeping anyway) and a 3rd, which they will mess up anyway.

Not being a pessimist, just what 20 years of following the Saints has shown me.

Euphoria

ahhh but your not listening to yourself... Didn\'t the Saints trade up recently and that hasn\'t panned out either. If DJ turns out to be a bust also... yes we all will sit here and critizise DJ and the Saints for pulling the trigger on that deal also... its what we do. SO no matter what they do they are damned if they do or damned if they don\'t right.

GoldenTomb

I KNOW you aren\'t comparing J. Sully to Derrick Johnson....there\'s no comparison.

Derrick Johnson is the top rated LB in this draft...probably the past 3 or 4 drafts. J. Sully was rated the 5th, 6th, and in some cases as low as the 7th best DT in the draft of \'03. Would the F.O. face criticism if they traded for DJ and he busted, no doubt, but no where near as much flak as they got for drafting that waste of human flesh Sully. I\'m sure DJ is regarded as much more of a sure thing than Sully was.

saintswhodi

If we traded up and got DJ I doubt there will be near as much criticism as there was for Sully, for the exact points you listed GT. Sully was nowhere near the top rated DT in the draft we got him in, while DJ is considered the best LB to come into the draft in a few years. There is no comparison. And LB is def a position of high need for our team. No doubt the Saints would get high marks for making a move like that, it is not even close to the Sully fiasco. If DJ bombed, then pretty much anyone in the NFL would have egg on their face and not just the Saints cause I have yet to hear anyone knock this kid. He is the best overall player in the draft.

baronm

the problem with the sully trade was we traded 2..count em 2 picks for a guy who would\'ve been there when we picked and wasn\'t our biggest need.

johnson would be one of hte top three players in the draft.