Underwhelmed

TheDeuce · 05-01-2016, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

I am not sold on Rankins, I like the two second rounders, no idea why we needed to give up next years 5th for this guy. Clearly hope I am way wrong and everyone is a stud, but our recent draft history, specifically having 3 players left on the roster from the '11,'12, and '14 draft is downright scary.

Although none of us may be in the know, the recent draft history points to the fact that the people in the draft room aren't too much in the know them damn selves.

Excluding the sentiment on Rankins, this pretty much sums up my feelings on the draft, spkb25.

I think Rankins is going to be a good player for us. Maybe not All-Pro, but he's a real competitor and has a lot of talent. Only thing preventing him from being All-Pro is his size.

Although I wasn't thrilled with the Thomas pick, I do think it's a solid pick and I know why we made it. I saw a stat that he had something like the third lowest drop rate (~8%) in college football last year. He's got good hands, good route runner, decent speed. Good match with Cooks.

I like the Bell pick a lot. We need safety help and he seems to be a playmaker. Thumbs up on this one.

In sum, I think we got better at DT, WR, and S. Good stuff, but those certainly weren't our only needs.

The third day of the draft just pissed me off... I've thought for several years that it seems the Saints decision makers overthink things. Maybe they think they're smarter than everybody else because they've drafted some success stories out of smaller schools. But they always seem to go in a different direction than what appears to be logical fits. I thought OG and speed rushing OLB/DE were serious needs, maybe could have used a CB... and they didn't address any of them. Instead they went for a guy who may not contribute this year. He may end up being like an Anthony Hargrove, guy who can play inside and outside but he's certainly not a speed rusher by any means. Maybe he'll be a good player... but the fact that he has only played ball for four years, and all of that in Canada, tells me he's got a lot of work ahead of him. Not only did we draft him, we traded next year's fifth round pick away to do so. Did we really think that this guy was that much better than a guy we could have taken in the fifth round at a position of need? There were several offensive linemen still on the board in the 5th that I would have preferred over this guy, and we could have kept next year's pick.

The seventh round pick just seemed like a throw away... did we really need another RB? Going into the draft I thought RB was arguably our least needed position. I just don't get these guys.

Yes, I know I'm not paid to be a professional scout and those guys are... but the draft success of this team has been awful for many years (check this out: National Football League: NFL Draft History - by Team ; 2014 is LOL bad). I hope Onyemata and Lasco turn out well, but just seems like we had a chance to at least try to address serious positions of need and just dgaf. Our OL is ****ty and we still don't have anybody who can consistently rush the passer (25th last year in sacks). Perhaps we'll make some good signings before the season starts, but we've got so much damned dead money on our books we're pretty limited in what we can do there. I just think the FO has lost the mojo they had from several years back.

K Major · 05-01-2016, 10:39 PM

Its waaaay too early for assumptions. Some posters are irate because the players "they" wanted weren't selected. Last year Ireland and staff picked prospects who were very productive in college and this years draft was no different. We are building from a solid 2015 draft. Give it time ...

Who knows, Von Bell could be the next Earl Thomas, Rankins the next LeRoi Glover , yada yada. It will be a few years before we know the answer on how well of a job the scouts did.

Meanwhile ...RELAX.

spkb25 · 05-02-2016, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by CheramieIII

I think everyone has lost site of what the Saints were like 40 years ago. I'm just glad we have a DT or 2.

I just remember what they were like the last two years- out of the playoffs and sub 500

spkb25 · 05-02-2016, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Its waaaay too early for assumptions. Some posters are irate because the players "they" wanted weren't selected. Last year Ireland and staff picked prospects who were very productive in college and this years draft was no different. We are building from a solid 2015 draft. Give it time ...

Who knows, Von Bell could be the next Earl Thomas, Rankins the next LeRoi Glover , yada yada. It will be a few years before we know the answer on how well of a job the scouts did.

Meanwhile ...RELAX.

questioning the decisions of leadership that has made poor personnel decisions and poor draft choices is justified. Not everyone is making an assumption that things will turn out negatively, but we also know the recent history of poor drafts and we aren't going to run around pretending it is all sunshine and rainbows.

the reason for the board is exactly for these type of discussions. No one is pretending, at least i dont think they are, that we know more than guys that have tpsent their entire lives in the sport. Not at all, but since decisions like this have been made in other drafts and they have proven unsuccessful people can question them.

At the end of the day we are all fans and we all hope it is the best draft clas ever

burningmetal · 05-02-2016, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by CheramieIII

I think everyone has lost site of what the Saints were like 40 years ago. I'm just glad we have a DT or 2.

This kind of comment is so old and tired. Exactly how long would you like for people to look 40 years into the past? Isn't getting better, and elevating expectations kind of the point?

Say whatever you want about this draft, or this team, or that guy... Whatever. But please, stop using the past as a reason to excuse mediocrity.

hagan714 · 05-02-2016, 06:15 AM

spkb25 "I am not sold on Rankins"

I am not either. I do not see our 12th pick of the NFL draft as a corner stone in which to rebuild with. Even if this works out he appears to be window dressing. That key cog element I just do not see in Rankings. He will always need the players around him to set the tone so he can feed of it them. A tone setter I do not see. Reed i viewed as a corner stone. He does not need players around him to help his play. Rankings appears to be the type of player you pick to finish off a rebuild with. We needed a corner stone at DT, So the saints go into the 2016 NFL season without that key element. Making the Williams pick hard for me because Reed was still there. Sheldon and Reed together would have left us short one starting DE. Another position we did nothing to address. I wont go about that second 2nd round pick. cost was way to high for a player like him. just like throwing money around in free agency the saints are now doing the same thing with picks. scary trend when you can not win the division much less make the playoffs.

Last years picks I saw a honest chance of players being the corner stones of a rebuilding of the saints defense.

I do not see that in this draft.

AsylumGuido · 05-02-2016, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

questioning the decisions of leadership that has made poor personnel decisions and poor draft choices is justified. Not everyone is making an assumption that things will turn out negatively, but we also know the recent history of poor drafts and we aren't going to run around pretending it is all sunshine and rainbows.

the reason for the board is exactly for these type of discussions. No one is pretending, at least i dont think they are, that we know more than guys that have tpsent their entire lives in the sport. Not at all, but since decisions like this have been made in other drafts and they have proven unsuccessful people can question them.

At the end of the day we are all fans and we all hope it is the best draft clas ever

That's where you are wrong. There are a few around here who absolutely believe they know more than the people in the front office. The vast majority of us look forward to coming in here to follow the actual draft and to hopefully learn about the players we picked up. Bad weather knocked out my satellite service Friday night and this forum was my only way to follow the Saints picks. I was met by posters constantly gripping and moaning about who the Saints had taken and who they should have taken instead. In case you didn't notice, it was irritating the crap out me.

AsylumGuido · 05-02-2016, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

spkb25 "I am not sold on Rankins"

I am not either. I do not see our 12th pick of the NFL draft as a corner stone in which to rebuild with. Even if this works out he appears to be window dressing. That key cog element I just do not see in Rankings. He will always need the players around him to set the tone so he can feed of it them. A tone setter I do not see. Reed i viewed as a corner stone. He does not need players around him to help his play. Rankings appears to be the type of player you pick to finish off a rebuild with. We needed a corner stone at DT, So the saints go into the 2016 NFL season without that key element. Making the Williams pick hard for me because Reed was still there. Sheldon and Reed together would have left us short one starting DE. Another position we did nothing to address. I wont go about that second 2nd round pick. cost was way to high for a player like him. just like throwing money around in free agency the saints are now doing the same thing with picks. scary trend when you can not win the division much less make the playoffs.

Last years picks I saw a honest chance of players being the corner stones of a rebuilding of the saints defense.

I do not see that in this draft.

Can you not consider that you are wrong and the front office may know what they are doing?

spkb25 · 05-02-2016, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

That's where you are wrong. There are a few around here who absolutely believe they know more than the people in the front office. The vast majority of us look forward to coming in here to follow the actual draft and to hopefully learn about the players we picked up. Bad weather knocked out my satellite service Friday night and this forum was my only way to follow the Saints picks. I was met by posters constantly gripping and moaning about who the Saints had taken and who they should have taken instead. In case you didn't notice, it was irritating the crap out me.

I feel ya on that!

spkb25 · 05-02-2016, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

spkb25 "I am not sold on Rankins"

I am not either. I do not see our 12th pick of the NFL draft as a corner stone in which to rebuild with. Even if this works out he appears to be window dressing. That key cog element I just do not see in Rankings. He will always need the players around him to set the tone so he can feed of it them. A tone setter I do not see. Reed i viewed as a corner stone. He does not need players around him to help his play. Rankings appears to be the type of player you pick to finish off a rebuild with. We needed a corner stone at DT, So the saints go into the 2016 NFL season without that key element. Making the Williams pick hard for me because Reed was still there. Sheldon and Reed together would have left us short one starting DE. Another position we did nothing to address. I wont go about that second 2nd round pick. cost was way to high for a player like him. just like throwing money around in free agency the saints are now doing the same thing with picks. scary trend when you can not win the division much less make the playoffs.

Last years picks I saw a honest chance of players being the corner stones of a rebuilding of the saints defense.

I do not see that in this draft.

I just worry he could end up like Ellis, but I hope he is God, bevcause we need it!!

I do really like the wideout we signed and I seriously expect big things from him. Might take him some time, hard transition to NFL, but I really do expect big things from him. It is his desire that has me so pumped

05-01-2016, 09:12 PM	#121
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Re: Underwhelmed Originally Posted by spkb25 I am not sold on Rankins, I like the two second rounders, no idea why we needed to give up next years 5th for this guy. Clearly hope I am way wrong and everyone is a stud, but our recent draft history, specifically having 3 players left on the roster from the '11,'12, and '14 draft is downright scary. Although none of us may be in the know, the recent draft history points to the fact that the people in the draft room aren't too much in the know them damn selves. Excluding the sentiment on Rankins, this pretty much sums up my feelings on the draft, spkb25. I think Rankins is going to be a good player for us. Maybe not All-Pro, but he's a real competitor and has a lot of talent. Only thing preventing him from being All-Pro is his size. Although I wasn't thrilled with the Thomas pick, I do think it's a solid pick and I know why we made it. I saw a stat that he had something like the third lowest drop rate (~8%) in college football last year. He's got good hands, good route runner, decent speed. Good match with Cooks. I like the Bell pick a lot. We need safety help and he seems to be a playmaker. Thumbs up on this one. In sum, I think we got better at DT, WR, and S. Good stuff, but those certainly weren't our only needs. The third day of the draft just pissed me off... I've thought for several years that it seems the Saints decision makers overthink things. Maybe they think they're smarter than everybody else because they've drafted some success stories out of smaller schools. But they always seem to go in a different direction than what appears to be logical fits. I thought OG and speed rushing OLB/DE were serious needs, maybe could have used a CB... and they didn't address any of them. Instead they went for a guy who may not contribute this year. He may end up being like an Anthony Hargrove, guy who can play inside and outside but he's certainly not a speed rusher by any means. Maybe he'll be a good player... but the fact that he has only played ball for four years, and all of that in Canada, tells me he's got a lot of work ahead of him. Not only did we draft him, we traded next year's fifth round pick away to do so. Did we really think that this guy was that much better than a guy we could have taken in the fifth round at a position of need? There were several offensive linemen still on the board in the 5th that I would have preferred over this guy, and we could have kept next year's pick. The seventh round pick just seemed like a throw away... did we really need another RB? Going into the draft I thought RB was arguably our least needed position. I just don't get these guys. Yes, I know I'm not paid to be a professional scout and those guys are... but the draft success of this team has been awful for many years (check this out: National Football League: NFL Draft History - by Team ; 2014 is LOL bad). I hope Onyemata and Lasco turn out well, but just seems like we had a chance to at least try to address serious positions of need and just dgaf. Our OL is ****ty and we still don't have anybody who can consistently rush the passer (25th last year in sacks). Perhaps we'll make some good signings before the season starts, but we've got so much damned dead money on our books we're pretty limited in what we can do there. I just think the FO has lost the mojo they had from several years back. spkb25 and MarchingOn like this.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

05-01-2016, 10:39 PM	#122
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,060 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Underwhelmed Its waaaay too early for assumptions. Some posters are irate because the players "they" wanted weren't selected. Last year Ireland and staff picked prospects who were very productive in college and this years draft was no different. We are building from a solid 2015 draft. Give it time ... Who knows, Von Bell could be the next Earl Thomas, Rankins the next LeRoi Glover , yada yada. It will be a few years before we know the answer on how well of a job the scouts did. Meanwhile ...RELAX. Rugby Saint II likes this.

05-02-2016, 04:45 AM	#123
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Underwhelmed Originally Posted by CheramieIII I think everyone has lost site of what the Saints were like 40 years ago. I'm just glad we have a DT or 2. I just remember what they were like the last two years- out of the playoffs and sub 500 CheramieIII likes this.

05-02-2016, 04:53 AM	#124
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Underwhelmed Originally Posted by K Major Its waaaay too early for assumptions. Some posters are irate because the players "they" wanted weren't selected. Last year Ireland and staff picked prospects who were very productive in college and this years draft was no different. We are building from a solid 2015 draft. Give it time ... Who knows, Von Bell could be the next Earl Thomas, Rankins the next LeRoi Glover , yada yada. It will be a few years before we know the answer on how well of a job the scouts did. Meanwhile ...RELAX. questioning the decisions of leadership that has made poor personnel decisions and poor draft choices is justified. Not everyone is making an assumption that things will turn out negatively, but we also know the recent history of poor drafts and we aren't going to run around pretending it is all sunshine and rainbows. the reason for the board is exactly for these type of discussions. No one is pretending, at least i dont think they are, that we know more than guys that have tpsent their entire lives in the sport. Not at all, but since decisions like this have been made in other drafts and they have proven unsuccessful people can question them. At the end of the day we are all fans and we all hope it is the best draft clas ever
	Your team stinks

05-02-2016, 05:01 AM	#125
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,906 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Underwhelmed Originally Posted by CheramieIII I think everyone has lost site of what the Saints were like 40 years ago. I'm just glad we have a DT or 2. This kind of comment is so old and tired. Exactly how long would you like for people to look 40 years into the past? Isn't getting better, and elevating expectations kind of the point? Say whatever you want about this draft, or this team, or that guy... Whatever. But please, stop using the past as a reason to excuse mediocrity.

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05-02-2016, 06:15 AM	#126
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Underwhelmed spkb25 "I am not sold on Rankins" I am not either. I do not see our 12th pick of the NFL draft as a corner stone in which to rebuild with. Even if this works out he appears to be window dressing. That key cog element I just do not see in Rankings. He will always need the players around him to set the tone so he can feed of it them. A tone setter I do not see. Reed i viewed as a corner stone. He does not need players around him to help his play. Rankings appears to be the type of player you pick to finish off a rebuild with. We needed a corner stone at DT, So the saints go into the 2016 NFL season without that key element. Making the Williams pick hard for me because Reed was still there. Sheldon and Reed together would have left us short one starting DE. Another position we did nothing to address. I wont go about that second 2nd round pick. cost was way to high for a player like him. just like throwing money around in free agency the saints are now doing the same thing with picks. scary trend when you can not win the division much less make the playoffs. Last years picks I saw a honest chance of players being the corner stones of a rebuilding of the saints defense. I do not see that in this draft. spkb25 likes this.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

05-02-2016, 06:56 AM	#127
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Underwhelmed Originally Posted by spkb25 questioning the decisions of leadership that has made poor personnel decisions and poor draft choices is justified. Not everyone is making an assumption that things will turn out negatively, but we also know the recent history of poor drafts and we aren't going to run around pretending it is all sunshine and rainbows. the reason for the board is exactly for these type of discussions. No one is pretending, at least i dont think they are, that we know more than guys that have tpsent their entire lives in the sport. Not at all, but since decisions like this have been made in other drafts and they have proven unsuccessful people can question them. At the end of the day we are all fans and we all hope it is the best draft clas ever That's where you are wrong. There are a few around here who absolutely believe they know more than the people in the front office. The vast majority of us look forward to coming in here to follow the actual draft and to hopefully learn about the players we picked up. Bad weather knocked out my satellite service Friday night and this forum was my only way to follow the Saints picks. I was met by posters constantly gripping and moaning about who the Saints had taken and who they should have taken instead. In case you didn't notice, it was irritating the crap out me.

05-02-2016, 07:00 AM	#128
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Underwhelmed Originally Posted by hagan714 spkb25 "I am not sold on Rankins" I am not either. I do not see our 12th pick of the NFL draft as a corner stone in which to rebuild with. Even if this works out he appears to be window dressing. That key cog element I just do not see in Rankings. He will always need the players around him to set the tone so he can feed of it them. A tone setter I do not see. Reed i viewed as a corner stone. He does not need players around him to help his play. Rankings appears to be the type of player you pick to finish off a rebuild with. We needed a corner stone at DT, So the saints go into the 2016 NFL season without that key element. Making the Williams pick hard for me because Reed was still there. Sheldon and Reed together would have left us short one starting DE. Another position we did nothing to address. I wont go about that second 2nd round pick. cost was way to high for a player like him. just like throwing money around in free agency the saints are now doing the same thing with picks. scary trend when you can not win the division much less make the playoffs. Last years picks I saw a honest chance of players being the corner stones of a rebuilding of the saints defense. I do not see that in this draft. Can you not consider that you are wrong and the front office may know what they are doing? hagan714 likes this.

05-02-2016, 07:01 AM	#129
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Underwhelmed Originally Posted by AsylumGuido That's where you are wrong. There are a few around here who absolutely believe they know more than the people in the front office. The vast majority of us look forward to coming in here to follow the actual draft and to hopefully learn about the players we picked up. Bad weather knocked out my satellite service Friday night and this forum was my only way to follow the Saints picks. I was met by posters constantly gripping and moaning about who the Saints had taken and who they should have taken instead. In case you didn't notice, it was irritating the crap out me. I feel ya on that!

05-02-2016, 07:03 AM	#130
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Underwhelmed Originally Posted by hagan714 spkb25 "I am not sold on Rankins" I am not either. I do not see our 12th pick of the NFL draft as a corner stone in which to rebuild with. Even if this works out he appears to be window dressing. That key cog element I just do not see in Rankings. He will always need the players around him to set the tone so he can feed of it them. A tone setter I do not see. Reed i viewed as a corner stone. He does not need players around him to help his play. Rankings appears to be the type of player you pick to finish off a rebuild with. We needed a corner stone at DT, So the saints go into the 2016 NFL season without that key element. Making the Williams pick hard for me because Reed was still there. Sheldon and Reed together would have left us short one starting DE. Another position we did nothing to address. I wont go about that second 2nd round pick. cost was way to high for a player like him. just like throwing money around in free agency the saints are now doing the same thing with picks. scary trend when you can not win the division much less make the playoffs. Last years picks I saw a honest chance of players being the corner stones of a rebuilding of the saints defense. I do not see that in this draft. I just worry he could end up like Ellis, but I hope he is God, bevcause we need it!! I do really like the wideout we signed and I seriously expect big things from him. Might take him some time, hard transition to NFL, but I really do expect big things from him. It is his desire that has me so pumped

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