Re: Underwhelmed
 

I think everyone has lost site of what the Saints were like 40 years ago. I'm just glad we have a DT or 2.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Excluding the sentiment on Rankins, this pretty much sums up my feelings on the draft, spkb25.

I think Rankins is going to be a good player for us. Maybe not All-Pro, but he's a real competitor and has a lot of talent. Only thing preventing him from being All-Pro is his size.

Although I wasn't thrilled with the Thomas pick, I do think it's a solid pick and I know why we made it. I saw a stat that he had something like the third lowest drop rate (~8%) in college football last year. He's got good hands, good route runner, decent speed. Good match with Cooks.

I like the Bell pick a lot. We need safety help and he seems to be a playmaker. Thumbs up on this one.

In sum, I think we got better at DT, WR, and S. Good stuff, but those certainly weren't our only needs.

The third day of the draft just pissed me off... I've thought for several years that it seems the Saints decision makers overthink things. Maybe they think they're smarter than everybody else because they've drafted some success stories out of smaller schools. But they always seem to go in a different direction than what appears to be logical fits. I thought OG and speed rushing OLB/DE were serious needs, maybe could have used a CB... and they didn't address any of them. Instead they went for a guy who may not contribute this year. He may end up being like an Anthony Hargrove, guy who can play inside and outside but he's certainly not a speed rusher by any means. Maybe he'll be a good player... but the fact that he has only played ball for four years, and all of that in Canada, tells me he's got a lot of work ahead of him. Not only did we draft him, we traded next year's fifth round pick away to do so. Did we really think that this guy was that much better than a guy we could have taken in the fifth round at a position of need? There were several offensive linemen still on the board in the 5th that I would have preferred over this guy, and we could have kept next year's pick.

The seventh round pick just seemed like a throw away... did we really need another RB? Going into the draft I thought RB was arguably our least needed position. I just don't get these guys.

Yes, I know I'm not paid to be a professional scout and those guys are... but the draft success of this team has been awful for many years (check this out: National Football League: NFL Draft History - by Team ; 2014 is LOL bad). I hope Onyemata and Lasco turn out well, but just seems like we had a chance to at least try to address serious positions of need and just dgaf. Our OL is ****ty and we still don't have anybody who can consistently rush the passer (25th last year in sacks). Perhaps we'll make some good signings before the season starts, but we've got so much damned dead money on our books we're pretty limited in what we can do there. I just think the FO has lost the mojo they had from several years back.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Its waaaay too early for assumptions. Some posters are irate because the players "they" wanted weren't selected. Last year Ireland and staff picked prospects who were very productive in college and this years draft was no different. We are building from a solid 2015 draft. Give it time ...

Who knows, Von Bell could be the next Earl Thomas, Rankins the next LeRoi Glover , yada yada. It will be a few years before we know the answer on how well of a job the scouts did.

Meanwhile ...RELAX.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

I just remember what they were like the last two years- out of the playoffs and sub 500

Re: Underwhelmed
 

questioning the decisions of leadership that has made poor personnel decisions and poor draft choices is justified. Not everyone is making an assumption that things will turn out negatively, but we also know the recent history of poor drafts and we aren't going to run around pretending it is all sunshine and rainbows.

the reason for the board is exactly for these type of discussions. No one is pretending, at least i dont think they are, that we know more than guys that have tpsent their entire lives in the sport. Not at all, but since decisions like this have been made in other drafts and they have proven unsuccessful people can question them.

At the end of the day we are all fans and we all hope it is the best draft clas ever

Re: Underwhelmed
 

This kind of comment is so old and tired. Exactly how long would you like for people to look 40 years into the past? Isn't getting better, and elevating expectations kind of the point?

Say whatever you want about this draft, or this team, or that guy... Whatever. But please, stop using the past as a reason to excuse mediocrity.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

spkb25 "I am not sold on Rankins"

I am not either. I do not see our 12th pick of the NFL draft as a corner stone in which to rebuild with. Even if this works out he appears to be window dressing. That key cog element I just do not see in Rankings. He will always need the players around him to set the tone so he can feed of it them. A tone setter I do not see. Reed i viewed as a corner stone. He does not need players around him to help his play. Rankings appears to be the type of player you pick to finish off a rebuild with. We needed a corner stone at DT, So the saints go into the 2016 NFL season without that key element. Making the Williams pick hard for me because Reed was still there. Sheldon and Reed together would have left us short one starting DE. Another position we did nothing to address. I wont go about that second 2nd round pick. cost was way to high for a player like him. just like throwing money around in free agency the saints are now doing the same thing with picks. scary trend when you can not win the division much less make the playoffs.

Last years picks I saw a honest chance of players being the corner stones of a rebuilding of the saints defense.

I do not see that in this draft.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

That's where you are wrong. There are a few around here who absolutely believe they know more than the people in the front office. The vast majority of us look forward to coming in here to follow the actual draft and to hopefully learn about the players we picked up. Bad weather knocked out my satellite service Friday night and this forum was my only way to follow the Saints picks. I was met by posters constantly gripping and moaning about who the Saints had taken and who they should have taken instead. In case you didn't notice, it was irritating the crap out me.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Can you not consider that you are wrong and the front office may know what they are doing?

Re: Underwhelmed
 

I feel ya on that!

Re: Underwhelmed
 

I just worry he could end up like Ellis, but I hope he is God, bevcause we need it!!

I do really like the wideout we signed and I seriously expect big things from him. Might take him some time, hard transition to NFL, but I really do expect big things from him. It is his desire that has me so pumped

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Every year that I slam a pick I put a crow in the freezer and have no issues in eating it with a great big smile. Sad part is I have enough crow in their to feed an army.

I want to be wrong trust me and i will take all the verbal abuse that comes along with it. Like I said I will be smiling the entire time because it would probably mean my saints are winning.

So far. i have eaten far less than I really want too.

So do not hold back when the crow is ready to be served.

I can take it like a man ;)

I just finished my blog on the draft review so it is time to accept, move on, sit back and see how this all unfolds. Making sure I have enough condiments just encase.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

You are entitled to your opinion and I usually enjoy your take on things but I think your opinion on Rankins reeks of more butt hurt than facts. If he needs so much help around him, as you say, then explain why he destroyed everyone in the senior bowl. I get that you wanted Reed but your obsession with him is keeping you from even giving Rankins a chance. Everyone else in the football world says it was a good pick.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

No if I am hurt by the Rankins selection the player that would be is Laremy Tunsil who dropped into our laps and in my wildest dreams I never saw that coming. Reed was not even on my mind at that point.

Rankings claim to fame and the reason he sky rocketed up the board was his play at the senior bowl as you pointed out. In a season were the interior OL was good I would have given that the merit it deserved. But given this was one of the thinnest drafts for starting OG/OC in a few years I could not go this route. I had to keep him were the season ended. rated as a round 1/2 type of player because of the players he faced at the senior bowl.

He has talent there is no denying it. But good OL had success neutralizing him. So there is my contention to him and a supporting cast.

If Reed is my emotional issue, as you have justly pointed out, go to round two which he was another gift from the football gods that dropped into our laps. Thats the round were emotions really kicked in.

Jarran Reed was the pick to make the entire Rankins pick work for me. Now pair the two together and I would have been happier than a pig in **** .To get those two at the end of round two would have been a steal. That would have changed the entire DT situation for the saints and did wonders for my out look at what the saints were doing at DT. Sure by my standards is as backwards as you can get but as long as you end up there who cares. That is a match made in heaven

So he rates as a player I will sit back and watch and hope to be wrong about. Funny enough as it is the players around him will be under the microscope for me more than him.

Sheldon Rankins will be competing with the ghost of Laremy Tunsilwill

Michael Thomas will be competing with the ghost of Jarran Reed

Ghost crowd my fragile egg shell mind.

So the season has started and it is time to grease the band wagon. :bng:

Re: Underwhelmed
 

If you're a believer in advanced metrics, then you'll be happy with the grade PFF gave the Saints draft.

B+. Only 2 teams in the NFC graded higher.

And as an added bonus, the Falcons got the lowest grade in the NFL with a D-.

Makes me happy.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Let me guess .. the Cowgirls is one of them?

Re: Underwhelmed
 

The little boys got a B-.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

can someone come up with a "MoneyBall" formula to help us find talent?

Re: Underwhelmed
 

The Browns grabbed him first...

Re: Underwhelmed
 

It's so darn easy to rip the front offices and coaches that all they do yearly is study tape after tape to draft what they think is the team need or just the BPA and any gambler will be right 80% of the time if they take the field in the NFL game so to speak. That 20% left will still have big odds at cutting into a lineup . So to come in here and moan and groan on the draft picks they got will not be a Ricky Jackson is pretty easy to be correct, but is kinda copping out on our picks, just be cool and let's see what we have, let's listen to the scopes of coaches and even some of our BnG members who can attend mini camps and open practices it's okay to voice your opinions but you have to take the smack from us who don't like to hear the attitudes who don't agree. Okay let me have it[emoji860][emoji860][emoji860][emoji860][emoji860][emoji860][emoji860].

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Bro, you are more than entitled to your opinion. Everyone has one. Nobody is getting hurt by voicing (or typing) an opinion. Any person who is offended by a fan who doesn't simply agree, automatically, with everything their team does... Can simply not read message boards. I'm not putting you down, but man, it's not a crime to disagree.

And I might add that this team has a far worse track record in drafts than the percentages you gave. Everyone is hoping the knew scouting department will change things, but it's too early to know.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

I get what you are saying we just differ on opinion. I know that I am not looking all the game film or talking to players coach's just like the vast majority are not. I never allow myself to get caught up in any particular player because we don't have a clue as to what the people making the decisions are thinking.

I can clearly see why we drafted who we did. I personally love the Rankins pick. I have seen enough and read enough to know it was a good pick. The WR was a NEED. I get that Reed would have been nice to pair with Rankins but we NEEDED a WR to make plays in the RZ. The coaching staff obviously felt like he was the BPA and I am ok with that. It fills a need and he has good upside. Now the DB pick was the one I wish we used to add the DL. I get the pick but I feel like we could have drafted a starter instead of a player who might rotate in.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

My take on all this is simple, well not really. I'm not a scout but there are several sites and scouts and even some posters whose opinions and observations I respect.

When all have a similar view on a player then I generally accept that as either a valid strength or weakness.

I also look at fit. If most are saying a player is a good fit for system A, but we run system B, then I don't think that player is a good fit for us. Like Power Blockers in a Zone Scheme, or man CB's in a zone scheme, or 3-4 OLB in a 4-3 front.

Then measuarbles. Do players with similar measurables typically fail? Does a 4.9 sec LB really have a shot in coverage? What about the other stats? I look at short area quickness for O and D lines. 40 times are like tits on a bull for OG's and DT's, but that 10 yard split is very important.
Arm lengths for CB's and DE's etc... CB's with T-Rex arms just ain't gonna cut it.

Then character issues. Is he a jerk? Is he a diva? High football IQ? Work ethic?

Then I also look at need. Was it a luxury pick? Can they help us now? Or will it take 2 or 3 years to develop? I don't like projects picked early but don't mind them late.

Then there's value. Could that player have been picked a round or two later? Did we pass up a stud at a need position for a reach?

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Won't lose site of where we came from because the future depends on it. For the players, the coaches and the front office.

It impacts who we are, how we think, what we believe, how we interact with others, what we think is possible for ourselves, whether we view the world as good or bad, what we strive for. Our history—our upbringing—impacts everything we think and believe and do.

It's is impossible to know where to go without reflecting on your past. Understanding our heritage and our roots are a very important part of carving out our future.

Melissa Joy • Never Forget Where You Came From.

This excerpt is from Melissa Joy and a damn good one!

You can forget the past if you want to but I for one will never forget it and will remember it to motivate everyone in the future.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Well said.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

I think that's a great way to do it. I personally put character issues very high on my list because it affects how I like the players on my team. I'd rather root for a guy that doesn't have all the talent but tries to make up for it with hustle than a superstar that quits whenever the going gets tough.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

thank u burningmetal I just like to throw a little fun on top of a bad reply I totally get it bros

Re: Underwhelmed
 

I think our history is part of what makes us who we are, especially the
bad times.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

WHO DAT!

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Recent history is what matters to me. The last two drafts look like winners. We are trending up.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

watching top undrafted players and they just went through John Randle. He was about the same size as Rankins.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

You do realize this is a discussion about football, right? Comparing one's heritage to a football organization which has players who are not in any way related to the players who stunk up the joint in the past, is kind of far fetched, in my opinion.

But more than that, here's where you're really missing my point. I didn't say "forget" the past. Unless you have amnesia, you can't forget that, nor can you "choose" to forget. I asked how long you want us to look 40 years into the past. Meaning, how long before we can stop judging this team based on those teams, in your opinion?

It's fine to remember the past, but you have to move on from it. You're right in one sense... When you say it should be used as motivation. Absolutely. That means not settling for mediocrity, simply because "well, we've had worse". That's the overwhelming sentiment I get from people who constantly use that tired old line, as I described it earlier.

THIS is not THEN. That's the point I'm trying to get across.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

It's no different from the constant racial issues that go on today, because you have those that want to judge white people based on what some bad people used to do.

I sure don't want to be judged by that. I'd rather people move on (not forget) from that and quit acting like someone did them wrong, accept that things are much different than they used to be, and learn to expect better instead of assuming I must be a racist. Not that every black person I meet treats me that way, because they don't, but we all know it happens more than it should.

That's not really a good comparison to football, either, but as long as we're going to turn this into a deep, heritage kind of discussion, I thought I'd throw that example in there.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

-Rankins is penciled in as a starter. We'll see. What worries me is all the "buzz" about the guy was from Senior Bowl drills and combine drills. Not about his actual play on the field.

-Thomas has the size and skills to translate well in the NFL. With a real QB like Brees, he could have a special year.

-Bell will contribute in coverage, which is much needed, and will be given a chance to be the everyday starter in the future. He's not very big and doesn't tackle especially well though.

-Onyemata is a big, strong, athlete. His limited experience in the game and lack of competition against equally talented guys is very concerning. The Saints took a flyer on defense in the 4th. With guys like DT's Billings and Reader, OG's Westerman and Drango, CB Hall, RB's Dixon and Booker, and QB Jones going afterwards, I think they could have done better.

-Lasco is very talented and fits the Saints scheme. But, if he sees the field this year, it will be because he was a steal or a lot of bad things happened to the RB corps. If offense was the direction, WR's Peake or Lawler were better choices in my opinion.

UDFA - There's lots of potential here. Allen and Turner are almost locks to make the team. I personally like Pettway, Elston, Harris, Houma, Dillon, Mathews, Tovell and Young.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Good stuff but I disagree a tad on a couple of things. Over the last 2 years Rankins graded out better than every NCAA DT except for Aaron Donald. He didn't just show up on the radar after the Senior Bowl.

Oneyamata is a great risk/reward pick in the 4th. We desperately need front 7 help. Its possible that everyone else left at that point graded no better than what we already have at DE/DT. He may not be ready right away, but the payoff is worth the wait if he continues to develop as expected. We didn't just send scouts his pro-day. We sent our D-line coach, who stayed afterwards working with him, giving him tips, and getting to know what type of person he is.

And Lasco, from what I've read, can be a great special teams contributor as well as a weapon at back-up RB. He may be an upgrade to Murphy and might push Spiller for playing time.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Guys, our new draft picks will be fine!! Rankins will help our interior run and pass defense. Thomas will keep the offense humming at full potential, Bell will help the back 7 and Lasco will increase our special teams production. Stop being negative nancy's!! We rock The Black and Gold not the cowgirl silver.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

I get what you are saying, but I am just of a philosophy that criticizing or basically *****ing and moaning about what goes on with the front office of the Saints is a nonproductive waste of time. I, like the vast majority of fans, know that nothing we say has any affect on what happens with our Saints. Most of us choose to simply enjoy it for what it is ... entertainment. Of course, the more we win the more entertaining it becomes. I remember when three out of four years with a 7-9 record would have been regarded as a winning streak. Do I wish for more? Of course, but why get bent out of shape over it if there is nothing I, or any other fan, can do about it.

What happens with the team will happen and I for one get tired of so much negativity. There seems to be more in recent years than back in the heyday. I'm sure that has to do with heightened expectations, but it still seems to me to be a waste of time and energy to be so critical about something that is completely out of ones control.

People sometimes call me a homer and accuse me of wearing rose colored glasses. I say, fine. I see nothing wrong with either of those things.

:bandg:

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Amen!

Re: Underwhelmed
 

Yeah, and he was a holy terror.

Re: Underwhelmed
 

https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEA...ZWJiODE1OQ.jpg


They didn't draft the guy I wanted.

I hate it I hate it I hate it!