Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-05-2016, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by jnormand

Guido, I respect your opinion, whether I agree or not. But good hell man, can't you do the same for others? Some people think Brees puts the team in a bad spot sometimes. It doesn't mean they hate him. And to be Frank, your opinion is truly that. Yours. Just because you don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean they are wrong and your opinion is fact and correct. By your logic, "none of us know anything" unless we were privyed to the actual situation. So... everyone has an opinion about something they don't know all the facts about. Argue if you want, but you'll not convince everyone you're right. And you may seem a bit pompous to some in attempting to do so.

The problem is that often that opinion isn't based in fact. Often it is based in the fanatical (hence the term fan) belief that the team must trump being professional, taking care of one's family, or simply doing one's job for fair pay.
It is a fan's perspective that has no basis in reality.

Guido's opinion, and mine, do in fact belong to us. The difference is that almost each and every time they are offered, there are accompanying facts to go along with them.

A famous phrase goes "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, no one is entitled to their own facts."

Both the opinion that Brees needs to take a short depressed contract extension and that Grayson is the next coming simply do not have any basis in fact. Brees is an elite HOF QB. There are 10 years of stats, including last year, that support that fact. The recent contracts of top 5 QBs and the current value of the QB franchise tag supports the fact that the elite QB market in 2016/2017 is near $25 million a year.

The is not one shred of supporting evidence about Grayson as a starting NFL QB.

It seems all that Guido is asking, and IMHO I agree, is exactly what is the logic in Brees signing (and I believe it's a quote that I saw) "a two year contract at $20 million/year" or that the Saints will in fact not miss a beat if Brees is gone because Grayson is looking better?

SFIAH

SaintFanInATLHELL · 06-05-2016, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

This is the feeling of the vast number of Saints fans. We will sink back into obscurity without him at this point. I can't understand the irrational hatred of some.

Actually Guido, I don't see it as hatred per se. I see it as passionate fans wanting to impress their passionate fandom upon the players and feel that the players are violating the fan code when they do not contribute everything towards the success of the team.

The basic logic is: my team needs to win a championship. To win a championship we need better people in other positions. To get those people we need more money to pay them. So for the sake of the team, players that are "overpaid" are hurting the team because they do not volunteer to contribute their salary for the good of the team so they can win a championship.

It's easy to see the effects. Ideas like the fact that Brees should have already signed the extension the Saints have presented. Or that Brees should accept a 2 year contract for $20 million per. Or that Saints should have restructured so that Brees' cap hit isn't $30 million this year.

It's a view that masks the fact that the NFL is a multi billion dollar business and a professional career for the players. The NFL is their profession, their job, and a significant part of their life. So players cannot really afford to embody the passionate fandom that fans want them to have.

This is the source of the friction and the seeming "hatred" that you refer to.

SFIAH

jeanpierre · 06-05-2016, 02:40 AM

If Grayson is going to be a great quarterback, he'll have to do it by beating out a great quarterback in Brees...

If that happens, Payton still on the sidelines, the Saints win...

It's not hating on Brees, it's pulling for the Saints no matter the outcome...

dizzle88 · 06-05-2016, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

The problem is that often that opinion isn't based in fact. Often it is based in the fanatical (hence the term fan) belief that the team must trump being professional, taking care of one's family, or simply doing one's job for fair pay.
It is a fan's perspective that has no basis in reality.

Guido's opinion, and mine, do in fact belong to us. The difference is that almost each and every time they are offered, there are accompanying facts to go along with them.

A famous phrase goes "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, no one is entitled to their own facts."

Both the opinion that Brees needs to take a short depressed contract extension and that Grayson is the next coming simply do not have any basis in fact. Brees is an elite HOF QB. There are 10 years of stats, including last year, that support that fact. The recent contracts of top 5 QBs and the current value of the QB franchise tag supports the fact that the elite QB market in 2016/2017 is near $25 million a year.

The is not one shred of supporting evidence about Grayson as a starting NFL QB.

It seems all that Guido is asking, and IMHO I agree, is exactly what is the logic in Brees signing (and I believe it's a quote that I saw) "a two year contract at $20 million/year" or that the Saints will in fact not miss a beat if Brees is gone because Grayson is looking better?

SFIAH

However Guido does not offer facts, my own personal experience from yesterday shows he just tells people they are wrong whilst giving his own opinion and saying it is a fact.

So whilst my opinion may not be right, it is mine and it's not fair to attack Users for their opinions, especially when none of us - including Guido, have real evidence to back it up.

We are all working off our own opinions, but it's completely unfair to dismiss someone because they don't share the same views - especially when I never once said I hated Brees, I love the guy and what he's done for our team.

hagan714 · 06-05-2016, 08:02 AM

if the sport writter says so I guess it is true. Oh wait one minute he sold me the kool aid the past few years so i better be careful'

I have to see it for myself. I am hoping

06-05-2016, 12:08 AM	#41
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season Originally Posted by jnormand Guido, I respect your opinion, whether I agree or not. But good hell man, can't you do the same for others? Some people think Brees puts the team in a bad spot sometimes. It doesn't mean they hate him. And to be Frank, your opinion is truly that. Yours. Just because you don't agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean they are wrong and your opinion is fact and correct. By your logic, "none of us know anything" unless we were privyed to the actual situation. So... everyone has an opinion about something they don't know all the facts about. Argue if you want, but you'll not convince everyone you're right. And you may seem a bit pompous to some in attempting to do so. The problem is that often that opinion isn't based in fact. Often it is based in the fanatical (hence the term fan) belief that the team must trump being professional, taking care of one's family, or simply doing one's job for fair pay. It is a fan's perspective that has no basis in reality. Guido's opinion, and mine, do in fact belong to us. The difference is that almost each and every time they are offered, there are accompanying facts to go along with them. A famous phrase goes "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, no one is entitled to their own facts." Both the opinion that Brees needs to take a short depressed contract extension and that Grayson is the next coming simply do not have any basis in fact. Brees is an elite HOF QB. There are 10 years of stats, including last year, that support that fact. The recent contracts of top 5 QBs and the current value of the QB franchise tag supports the fact that the elite QB market in 2016/2017 is near $25 million a year. The is not one shred of supporting evidence about Grayson as a starting NFL QB. It seems all that Guido is asking, and IMHO I agree, is exactly what is the logic in Brees signing (and I believe it's a quote that I saw) "a two year contract at $20 million/year" or that the Saints will in fact not miss a beat if Brees is gone because Grayson is looking better? SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

06-05-2016, 12:37 AM	#42
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season Originally Posted by AsylumGuido This is the feeling of the vast number of Saints fans. We will sink back into obscurity without him at this point. I can't understand the irrational hatred of some. Actually Guido, I don't see it as hatred per se. I see it as passionate fans wanting to impress their passionate fandom upon the players and feel that the players are violating the fan code when they do not contribute everything towards the success of the team. The basic logic is: my team needs to win a championship. To win a championship we need better people in other positions. To get those people we need more money to pay them. So for the sake of the team, players that are "overpaid" are hurting the team because they do not volunteer to contribute their salary for the good of the team so they can win a championship. It's easy to see the effects. Ideas like the fact that Brees should have already signed the extension the Saints have presented. Or that Brees should accept a 2 year contract for $20 million per. Or that Saints should have restructured so that Brees' cap hit isn't $30 million this year. It's a view that masks the fact that the NFL is a multi billion dollar business and a professional career for the players. The NFL is their profession, their job, and a significant part of their life. So players cannot really afford to embody the passionate fandom that fans want them to have. This is the source of the friction and the seeming "hatred" that you refer to. SFIAH Rugby Saint II likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

06-05-2016, 02:40 AM	#43
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season If Grayson is going to be a great quarterback, he'll have to do it by beating out a great quarterback in Brees... If that happens, Payton still on the sidelines, the Saints win... It's not hating on Brees, it's pulling for the Saints no matter the outcome...

06-05-2016, 07:38 AM	#44
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL The problem is that often that opinion isn't based in fact. Often it is based in the fanatical (hence the term fan) belief that the team must trump being professional, taking care of one's family, or simply doing one's job for fair pay. It is a fan's perspective that has no basis in reality. Guido's opinion, and mine, do in fact belong to us. The difference is that almost each and every time they are offered, there are accompanying facts to go along with them. A famous phrase goes "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, no one is entitled to their own facts." Both the opinion that Brees needs to take a short depressed contract extension and that Grayson is the next coming simply do not have any basis in fact. Brees is an elite HOF QB. There are 10 years of stats, including last year, that support that fact. The recent contracts of top 5 QBs and the current value of the QB franchise tag supports the fact that the elite QB market in 2016/2017 is near $25 million a year. The is not one shred of supporting evidence about Grayson as a starting NFL QB. It seems all that Guido is asking, and IMHO I agree, is exactly what is the logic in Brees signing (and I believe it's a quote that I saw) "a two year contract at $20 million/year" or that the Saints will in fact not miss a beat if Brees is gone because Grayson is looking better? SFIAH However Guido does not offer facts, my own personal experience from yesterday shows he just tells people they are wrong whilst giving his own opinion and saying it is a fact. So whilst my opinion may not be right, it is mine and it's not fair to attack Users for their opinions, especially when none of us - including Guido, have real evidence to back it up. We are all working off our own opinions, but it's completely unfair to dismiss someone because they don't share the same views - especially when I never once said I hated Brees, I love the guy and what he's done for our team. 44Champs likes this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

06-05-2016, 08:02 AM	#45
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Garrett Grayson's poise, control showing improvement in second season if the sport writter says so I guess it is true. Oh wait one minute he sold me the kool aid the past few years so i better be careful' I have to see it for myself. I am hoping

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