Drew Brees

burningmetal · 12-06-2016, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

While I agree with you that Payton definitely should not have challenged the Cooks' play, I have to disagree with you on a few of points. The play was reviewable. I know the announcer said it wasn't, but it was. Also, if it was not reviewable the refs definitely would not have accepted the review. And finally, Cooks was clearly down. Yes, he was pulled down upon the defender's body and rolled over and off, but before gaining his feet his forearm clearly hit the turf. That is down by contact.

But, with first and goal inside the one, Payton should never have taken the chance.

They ruled him down on the play and blew the whistle. The only way it would have been reviewable is if there were a fumble, in which case you can review for a change of possession, but you can't allow advancement of the ball after the whistle. This was a challenge to review whether or not he was down, which is not reviewable because you can't reverse the call after you blew the whistle and everyone stopped playing.

I think the ref either blew it by not remembering that (refs DO screw up the rules from time to time, not just the calls) or he justified it in his own head by telling himself that maybe he might change the spot to be slightly closer to the goal line. But you CANNOT go and change that to a touchdown when the whistle had blown. How is that reviewable? I'm just not seeing it.

But yeah, it was pointless to begin with.

The Dude · 12-10-2016, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I had a lot of issues with this game, and I'm not sure I can name many who didn't botch something. The line was not good in pass protection, but on his first two interceptions he had plenty of time and just made horrible throws. I noticed that he kept staring down Cooks every time he threw his way. Reminded me of the later Jimmy Graham years.

The lack of balance in play calling was evident to everyone, and was miserable.

Payton cost us a timeout by challenging a call that wasn't even reviewable. Cooks was clearly not down, but they called him down and you can't change that. I can't believe that no one on the Saints sideline said anything to Payton about that, and I can't believe he didn't know that. Also, I couldn't believe the refs LET him challenge it. When something isn't reviewable, they are supposed to say that. It was a total waste of a challenge and timeout, especially when it was first and goal inside the 1.

Fleener had multiple critical drops. He is everything he was in Indy. A guy who might put up some stats, because he isn't a true tight end and can get open fairly well, but he drops way too many balls. This was common knowledge.

The defensive backfield was pathetic. They just left guys wide open all day. Breaux, in particular, got burned several times. He had perfect position on one, and seemed to literally just let Tate catch the ball. He made no effort to knock the ball away despite the fact that he was pretty much running the route for the receiver. This entire secondary has atrocious ball skills. Even when they are playing decent, they don't make big plays. There were multiple dropped interceptions, again.

I'm sure there is more, but that's about all I care to say about the negatives. Too many of them.

If a play is not reviewable I think its stupid that they would take away his timeout for throwing the flag. Yea it was bone headed on Paytons part but if its not reviewable in the first place why would a challenge flag even count one way or another.

burningmetal · 12-10-2016, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

If a play is not reviewable I think its stupid that they would take away his timeout for throwing the flag. Yea it was bone headed on Paytons part but if its not reviewable in the first place why would a challenge flag even count one way or another.

They took the timeout away because they decided to review a play that is not reviewable. It's as simple as that.

I don't have any idea how they justified going forward with the replay, but whatever they thought they were doing, it was in error. You can't review anything that is blown dead, unless it is to determine a change of possession. But that's not what was being reviewed.

So you're right, it was stupid. And that was my point in a nutshell.

Mardigras9 · 12-06-2016, 10:31 AM

The defense played well, minus a big play off an all out blitz.
The real reality is, Drew has to have perfect games for us to have any chance of winning, so an off day is a guaranteed loss.

leilung · 12-06-2016, 10:52 AM

Reality check: Can we expect more or less games like this out of Brees in the coming season? Would anyone be hesitant about seeing what we could get for Ingram if he dropped 3 turnovers in a single game (which could have been 4 if the fumble weren't recovered)?

No 'yeah but' excuses anymore. The team should be in rebuild mode starting with a QB that can be the franchise for the next 10 years and not waiting for another 2009 to happen again...'cause it ain't!

Love him, but for the good of the franchise, we have to move on!

halloween 65 · 12-06-2016, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by leilung

Reality check: Can we expect more or less games like this out of Brees in the coming season? Would anyone be hesitant about seeing what we could get for Ingram if he dropped 3 turnovers in a single game (which could have been 4 if the fumble weren't recovered)?

No 'yeah but' excuses anymore. The team should be in rebuild mode starting with a QB that can be the franchise for the next 10 years and not waiting for another 2009 to happen again...'cause it ain't!

Love him, but for the good of the franchise, we have to move on!

At the end of the game stats were padded, I never count those. Meaningless. This entire team dropped the ball from the top to bottom, I was partiuarly got amused about the blitz that ended up as a Lions touchdown, kind of broke our backs but it reassured me of Allens calls and his D. There has been a few low score game that Brees hasn't looked good against the better D's this season but looked great othertimes. As far as rebuilding with another qb. I would have to agree, with the Saints FO and always trying patchwork D's with basically the same D coaches and staff I think we waisted our best run with Brees never having a D to speak of.

AsylumGuido · 12-06-2016, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by leilung

Reality check: Can we expect more or less games like this out of Brees in the coming season? Would anyone be hesitant about seeing what we could get for Ingram if he dropped 3 turnovers in a single game (which could have been 4 if the fumble weren't recovered)?

No 'yeah but' excuses anymore. The team should be in rebuild mode starting with a QB that can be the franchise for the next 10 years and not waiting for another 2009 to happen again...'cause it ain't!

Love him, but for the good of the franchise, we have to move on!

It may take 15 years to find another QB that could be a franchise QB for ten years. I guess we could pick one off that magic QB tree.

frydaddy · 12-06-2016, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

It may take 15 years to find another QB that could be a franchise QB for ten years. I guess we could pick one off that magic QB tree.

Have to agree here. People routinely talk about our next franchise QB, but can anyone say for sure where or when we might find him? By my count we've had 2 truly great QB's in our entire history, and they were separated by decades. Maybe we get lucky and find that next guy sooner than later, but in the meantime I think you ride your future HOF QB until he can't go anymore.

Rugby Saint II · 12-08-2016, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by frydaddy

Have to agree here. People routinely talk about our next franchise QB, but can anyone say for sure where or when we might find him? By my count we've had 2 truly great QB's in our entire history, and they were separated by decades. Maybe we get lucky and find that next guy sooner than later, but in the meantime I think you ride your future HOF QB until he can't go anymore.

Well said sir! Well said.

Utah_Saint · 12-06-2016, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

It may take 15 years to find another QB that could be a franchise QB for ten years. I guess we could pick one off that magic QB tree.

I suspect it grows in Wisconsin.

12-06-2016, 06:15 PM	#1
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Drew Brees Originally Posted by AsylumGuido While I agree with you that Payton definitely should not have challenged the Cooks' play, I have to disagree with you on a few of points. The play was reviewable. I know the announcer said it wasn't, but it was. Also, if it was not reviewable the refs definitely would not have accepted the review. And finally, Cooks was clearly down. Yes, he was pulled down upon the defender's body and rolled over and off, but before gaining his feet his forearm clearly hit the turf. That is down by contact. But, with first and goal inside the one, Payton should never have taken the chance. They ruled him down on the play and blew the whistle. The only way it would have been reviewable is if there were a fumble, in which case you can review for a change of possession, but you can't allow advancement of the ball after the whistle. This was a challenge to review whether or not he was down, which is not reviewable because you can't reverse the call after you blew the whistle and everyone stopped playing. I think the ref either blew it by not remembering that (refs DO screw up the rules from time to time, not just the calls) or he justified it in his own head by telling himself that maybe he might change the spot to be slightly closer to the goal line. But you CANNOT go and change that to a touchdown when the whistle had blown. How is that reviewable? I'm just not seeing it. But yeah, it was pointless to begin with.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

12-10-2016, 10:37 PM	#2
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055	Re: Drew Brees Originally Posted by burningmetal I had a lot of issues with this game, and I'm not sure I can name many who didn't botch something. The line was not good in pass protection, but on his first two interceptions he had plenty of time and just made horrible throws. I noticed that he kept staring down Cooks every time he threw his way. Reminded me of the later Jimmy Graham years. The lack of balance in play calling was evident to everyone, and was miserable. Payton cost us a timeout by challenging a call that wasn't even reviewable. Cooks was clearly not down, but they called him down and you can't change that. I can't believe that no one on the Saints sideline said anything to Payton about that, and I can't believe he didn't know that. Also, I couldn't believe the refs LET him challenge it. When something isn't reviewable, they are supposed to say that. It was a total waste of a challenge and timeout, especially when it was first and goal inside the 1. Fleener had multiple critical drops. He is everything he was in Indy. A guy who might put up some stats, because he isn't a true tight end and can get open fairly well, but he drops way too many balls. This was common knowledge. The defensive backfield was pathetic. They just left guys wide open all day. Breaux, in particular, got burned several times. He had perfect position on one, and seemed to literally just let Tate catch the ball. He made no effort to knock the ball away despite the fact that he was pretty much running the route for the receiver. This entire secondary has atrocious ball skills. Even when they are playing decent, they don't make big plays. There were multiple dropped interceptions, again. I'm sure there is more, but that's about all I care to say about the negatives. Too many of them. If a play is not reviewable I think its stupid that they would take away his timeout for throwing the flag. Yea it was bone headed on Paytons part but if its not reviewable in the first place why would a challenge flag even count one way or another.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055

12-10-2016, 10:54 PM	#3
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Drew Brees Originally Posted by The Dude If a play is not reviewable I think its stupid that they would take away his timeout for throwing the flag. Yea it was bone headed on Paytons part but if its not reviewable in the first place why would a challenge flag even count one way or another. They took the timeout away because they decided to review a play that is not reviewable. It's as simple as that. I don't have any idea how they justified going forward with the replay, but whatever they thought they were doing, it was in error. You can't review anything that is blown dead, unless it is to determine a change of possession. But that's not what was being reviewed. So you're right, it was stupid. And that was my point in a nutshell.

12-06-2016, 10:31 AM	#4
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Drew Brees The defense played well, minus a big play off an all out blitz. The real reality is, Drew has to have perfect games for us to have any chance of winning, so an off day is a guaranteed loss. SaintsBro and darksoul35 like this.

12-06-2016, 10:52 AM	#5
leilung Booty Bandit Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Wastelands that are NJ Posts: 1,420	Re: Drew Brees Reality check: Can we expect more or less games like this out of Brees in the coming season? Would anyone be hesitant about seeing what we could get for Ingram if he dropped 3 turnovers in a single game (which could have been 4 if the fumble weren't recovered)? No 'yeah but' excuses anymore. The team should be in rebuild mode starting with a QB that can be the franchise for the next 10 years and not waiting for another 2009 to happen again...'cause it ain't! Love him, but for the good of the franchise, we have to move on!
	A wise man once said, "Poo-poo smells just as bad as s#!%. One just SOUNDS cuter!"

12-06-2016, 11:11 AM	#6
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Drew Brees Originally Posted by leilung Reality check: Can we expect more or less games like this out of Brees in the coming season? Would anyone be hesitant about seeing what we could get for Ingram if he dropped 3 turnovers in a single game (which could have been 4 if the fumble weren't recovered)? No 'yeah but' excuses anymore. The team should be in rebuild mode starting with a QB that can be the franchise for the next 10 years and not waiting for another 2009 to happen again...'cause it ain't! Love him, but for the good of the franchise, we have to move on! At the end of the game stats were padded, I never count those. Meaningless. This entire team dropped the ball from the top to bottom, I was partiuarly got amused about the blitz that ended up as a Lions touchdown, kind of broke our backs but it reassured me of Allens calls and his D. There has been a few low score game that Brees hasn't looked good against the better D's this season but looked great othertimes. As far as rebuilding with another qb. I would have to agree, with the Saints FO and always trying patchwork D's with basically the same D coaches and staff I think we waisted our best run with Brees never having a D to speak of. leilung likes this.

12-06-2016, 02:49 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,565	Re: Drew Brees Originally Posted by leilung Reality check: Can we expect more or less games like this out of Brees in the coming season? Would anyone be hesitant about seeing what we could get for Ingram if he dropped 3 turnovers in a single game (which could have been 4 if the fumble weren't recovered)? No 'yeah but' excuses anymore. The team should be in rebuild mode starting with a QB that can be the franchise for the next 10 years and not waiting for another 2009 to happen again...'cause it ain't! Love him, but for the good of the franchise, we have to move on! It may take 15 years to find another QB that could be a franchise QB for ten years. I guess we could pick one off that magic QB tree. saintfan, jnormand, darksoul35 and 1 others like this.

12-06-2016, 03:06 PM	#8
frydaddy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Lafayette Posts: 1,952 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Drew Brees Originally Posted by AsylumGuido It may take 15 years to find another QB that could be a franchise QB for ten years. I guess we could pick one off that magic QB tree. Have to agree here. People routinely talk about our next franchise QB, but can anyone say for sure where or when we might find him? By my count we've had 2 truly great QB's in our entire history, and they were separated by decades. Maybe we get lucky and find that next guy sooner than later, but in the meantime I think you ride your future HOF QB until he can't go anymore. Danno, AsylumGuido, Rugby Saint II and 1 others like this.

12-08-2016, 04:58 PM	#9
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,133	Re: Drew Brees Originally Posted by frydaddy Have to agree here. People routinely talk about our next franchise QB, but can anyone say for sure where or when we might find him? By my count we've had 2 truly great QB's in our entire history, and they were separated by decades. Maybe we get lucky and find that next guy sooner than later, but in the meantime I think you ride your future HOF QB until he can't go anymore. Well said sir! Well said.

12-06-2016, 06:56 PM	#10
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Drew Brees Originally Posted by AsylumGuido It may take 15 years to find another QB that could be a franchise QB for ten years. I guess we could pick one off that magic QB tree. I suspect it grows in Wisconsin. RailBoss likes this.

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