Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two

01-05-2017, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by 44Champs

I dont think DA did a horrible job. But what ticks me off is that it took SP and Loomis this long to get us to the point where we finally have a young, respectable defense that plays with a lot of pride. They wasted away a great opportunity w the crap players and coaches that they put on the field the several years prior.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

All started when we got rid of our veterans on defense after the 2013 season.
Smith
Harper
Jenkins
Vilma
Greer
(Haralson too)

Now granted, it's likely most if not all of these players would have been back ups or role players, but you get rid of that many leaders in 1 season it's going to take time get that back.

44Champs · 01-05-2017, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

All started when we got rid of our veterans on defense after the 2013 season.
Smith
Harper
Jenkins
Vilma
Greer
(Haralson too)

Now granted, it's likely most if not all of these players would have been back ups or role players, but you get rid of that many leaders in 1 season it's going to take time get that back.

Agree. And on top of that you teplace them with the likes of Junior Galette. What a trainwreck that was.

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AsylumGuido · 01-05-2017, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by gulfgambler

This team could use a defensive minded HC w/ DA as DC. Brees and Carmichael can handle offense w/o missing a beat. I'm open tot see how many and how high draft picks we can get for SP and his ridiculous overpaid contract.

While you may be open to it, you are not the one that makes those type of decisions. No matter what you think, Payton isn't going anywhere as long as Benson, or his wife, and Loomis are in charge. And what Payton gets paid should be of no concern of yours at all. It is a drop in a billionaire's bucket.

AsylumGuido · 01-05-2017, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

All started when we got rid of our veterans on defense after the 2013 season.
Smith
Harper
Jenkins
Vilma
Greer
(Haralson too)

Now granted, it's likely most if not all of these players would have been back ups or role players, but you get rid of that many leaders in 1 season it's going to take time get that back.

For the last couple of years several people around here were screaming for a rebuild. Guess what? That's what happened. Those guys were all veterans that were getting paid like veterans. You can't have a roster full of backups getting paid like starters. You can't have it both ways. 2014 and 2015 saw the result of that missing leadership on the defensive side of the ball. 2016 saw the emergence of new young leadership, but also experienced crushing losses of the talent to the IR.

I have pointed all of this out before. Yes, the records were the same, but the 7-9 of 2016 was completely different. It comes with renewed hope for those willing to look at it objectively.

AsylumGuido · 01-05-2017, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by 44Champs

Agree. And on top of that you teplace them with the likes of Junior Galette. What a trainwreck that was.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

When Galette was racking up 12 sacks in 2013 everyone thought he was the next great Saint. It turned out, to everyone's surprise, he was damaged goods. It was too late to reverse field. The Saints could either keep him and his salary on board, complete with his ever growing locker room cancer and ever shrinking public image. The Saints did all that they could do by cutting him and eating the dead cap.

SaintsBro · 01-05-2017, 09:56 AM

If they lose the first 2 games again next year, we'll know it's over in September. In fact, we'll know if it's over or not in early October, no matter what. If you can't string together more than two back-to-back wins in the NFL, you're not doing anything. I may be wrong, but I don't think they've won more than 3 straight in a row since October 2013.

AsylumGuido · 01-05-2017, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

If they lose the first 2 games again next year, we'll know it's over in September. In fact, we'll know if it's over or not in early October, no matter what. If you can't string together more than two back-to-back wins in the NFL, you're not doing anything. I may be wrong, but I don't think they've won more than 3 straight in a row since October 2013.

Does it matter who those first two games are against? Would you put the same weighting upon at Atlanta and hosting New England as you would hosting the Jets and the Bears?

Rugby Saint II · 01-05-2017, 02:32 PM

Sean Payton needs a handler! He needs a real football GM not a bean counter. The personnel decisions are on Payton and that means it is squarely on Mickey Loomis to have reigned in Payton's willingness to gamble on high risk/high reward type of players. Along with an inability to draft well except for the players we spent multiple picks on players who are above average......but not exceptional and we throw away draft picks like discards in five card draw.

We need a real GM who can help Ireland spot talent. Oh, and we need a fresh perspective from our Pro Scouts who have produced less than stellar results. Shake it up baby!

SaintsBro · 01-05-2017, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Does it matter who those first two games are against? Would you put the same weighting upon at Atlanta and hosting New England as you would hosting the Jets and the Bears?

No at this point, it doesn't matter. Look at the history. There has never been a successful year where the Sean Payton era Saints have dug themselves out of a hole, once they are in one. Like I said, if you can't string together more than three games in a row in the NFL, your record will speak for itself, and will likely be 7-9, 8-8.... mediocre....exactly what we've been getting.

You're welcome to keep on enjoying a 7-9 team that's losing games every week by less than 7 points, with close finishes, implosions at the end, mistake laden football, and piles of passing yards in the second half....be my guest....you would probably enjoy a 7-9 season just as much as 13-3. But the 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2013 seasons all have something in common... in all those years, the team started strong right out the gate, in the first three or four games.

spkb25 · 01-05-2017, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

While you may be open to it, you are not the one that makes those type of decisions. No matter what you think, Payton isn't going anywhere as long as Benson, or his wife, and Loomis are in charge. And what Payton gets paid should be of no concern of yours at all. It is a drop in a billionaire's bucket.

that's total bs, if he keeps losing he's done

01-05-2017, 12:00 AM	#21
Threaded by blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by 44Champs I dont think DA did a horrible job. But what ticks me off is that it took SP and Loomis this long to get us to the point where we finally have a young, respectable defense that plays with a lot of pride. They wasted away a great opportunity w the crap players and coaches that they put on the field the several years prior. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk All started when we got rid of our veterans on defense after the 2013 season. Smith Harper Jenkins Vilma Greer (Haralson too) Now granted, it's likely most if not all of these players would have been back ups or role players, but you get rid of that many leaders in 1 season it's going to take time get that back. hagan714, foreverfan and Rugby Saint II like this.
Views: 4386

01-05-2017, 12:49 AM	#22
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two Originally Posted by blackangold All started when we got rid of our veterans on defense after the 2013 season. Smith Harper Jenkins Vilma Greer (Haralson too) Now granted, it's likely most if not all of these players would have been back ups or role players, but you get rid of that many leaders in 1 season it's going to take time get that back. Agree. And on top of that you teplace them with the likes of Junior Galette. What a trainwreck that was. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

01-05-2017, 08:15 AM	#23
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two Originally Posted by gulfgambler This team could use a defensive minded HC w/ DA as DC. Brees and Carmichael can handle offense w/o missing a beat. I'm open tot see how many and how high draft picks we can get for SP and his ridiculous overpaid contract. While you may be open to it, you are not the one that makes those type of decisions. No matter what you think, Payton isn't going anywhere as long as Benson, or his wife, and Loomis are in charge. And what Payton gets paid should be of no concern of yours at all. It is a drop in a billionaire's bucket.

01-05-2017, 08:26 AM	#24
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two Originally Posted by blackangold All started when we got rid of our veterans on defense after the 2013 season. Smith Harper Jenkins Vilma Greer (Haralson too) Now granted, it's likely most if not all of these players would have been back ups or role players, but you get rid of that many leaders in 1 season it's going to take time get that back. For the last couple of years several people around here were screaming for a rebuild. Guess what? That's what happened. Those guys were all veterans that were getting paid like veterans. You can't have a roster full of backups getting paid like starters. You can't have it both ways. 2014 and 2015 saw the result of that missing leadership on the defensive side of the ball. 2016 saw the emergence of new young leadership, but also experienced crushing losses of the talent to the IR. I have pointed all of this out before. Yes, the records were the same, but the 7-9 of 2016 was completely different. It comes with renewed hope for those willing to look at it objectively. Rugby Saint II and WW_Who_Dat like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-05-2017, 08:38 AM	#25
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two Originally Posted by 44Champs Agree. And on top of that you teplace them with the likes of Junior Galette. What a trainwreck that was. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk When Galette was racking up 12 sacks in 2013 everyone thought he was the next great Saint. It turned out, to everyone's surprise, he was damaged goods. It was too late to reverse field. The Saints could either keep him and his salary on board, complete with his ever growing locker room cancer and ever shrinking public image. The Saints did all that they could do by cutting him and eating the dead cap. 44Champs likes this.

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01-05-2017, 09:56 AM	#26
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two If they lose the first 2 games again next year, we'll know it's over in September. In fact, we'll know if it's over or not in early October, no matter what. If you can't string together more than two back-to-back wins in the NFL, you're not doing anything. I may be wrong, but I don't think they've won more than 3 straight in a row since October 2013.

01-05-2017, 10:10 AM	#27
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two Originally Posted by SaintsBro If they lose the first 2 games again next year, we'll know it's over in September. In fact, we'll know if it's over or not in early October, no matter what. If you can't string together more than two back-to-back wins in the NFL, you're not doing anything. I may be wrong, but I don't think they've won more than 3 straight in a row since October 2013. Does it matter who those first two games are against? Would you put the same weighting upon at Atlanta and hosting New England as you would hosting the Jets and the Bears?

01-05-2017, 02:32 PM	#28
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two Sean Payton needs a handler! He needs a real football GM not a bean counter. The personnel decisions are on Payton and that means it is squarely on Mickey Loomis to have reigned in Payton's willingness to gamble on high risk/high reward type of players. Along with an inability to draft well except for the players we spent multiple picks on players who are above average......but not exceptional and we throw away draft picks like discards in five card draw. We need a real GM who can help Ireland spot talent. Oh, and we need a fresh perspective from our Pro Scouts who have produced less than stellar results. Shake it up baby! Halo and UK_WhoDat like this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

01-05-2017, 04:18 PM	#29
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Does it matter who those first two games are against? Would you put the same weighting upon at Atlanta and hosting New England as you would hosting the Jets and the Bears? No at this point, it doesn't matter. Look at the history. There has never been a successful year where the Sean Payton era Saints have dug themselves out of a hole, once they are in one. Like I said, if you can't string together more than three games in a row in the NFL, your record will speak for itself, and will likely be 7-9, 8-8.... mediocre....exactly what we've been getting. You're welcome to keep on enjoying a 7-9 team that's losing games every week by less than 7 points, with close finishes, implosions at the end, mistake laden football, and piles of passing yards in the second half....be my guest....you would probably enjoy a 7-9 season just as much as 13-3. But the 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2013 seasons all have something in common... in all those years, the team started strong right out the gate, in the first three or four games.

01-05-2017, 04:22 PM	#30
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,101	Re: Saints explain why they think this 7-9 finish was different from past two Originally Posted by AsylumGuido While you may be open to it, you are not the one that makes those type of decisions. No matter what you think, Payton isn't going anywhere as long as Benson, or his wife, and Loomis are in charge. And what Payton gets paid should be of no concern of yours at all. It is a drop in a billionaire's bucket. that's total bs, if he keeps losing he's done

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