Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED

halloween 65 · 01-07-2017, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

I don't get you guys...

If you've been watching Saints football the last three years, there should be several distinct markers that showed up this season...

Our defenses essentially shut teams down in the second halves of games...

Our secondary really limited the big pass plays compared to previous seasons...

We had three areas that glaringly led to losses this season...

Kicking game directly led to three losses - so McMahon and Kwan were dismissed...

Pass rush, front four were not a threat through most of the season, even when Rankins returned and Onyemata started leveling up - so the defensive line coach was dismissed...

Our first round pick from last year was essentially benched and unable to "grasp" the game - after years of my incessant arguing that Vitt was a liability, my hope was answered and he was dismissed...

Payton is loyal to his guys and those firings emotionally have had to wreck him - they would have for me (and I had to let a close friend go this past year in my business who I had to face was a problem)...

Payton is doing exactly what is necessary, he just has to close the deal with the right hires as he had made last season...

Look at the improvements in the offensive line and defensive secondary - those guys are the argument that not just head coach but assistants should win Coach of the Year...

We're all upset with the record and underachievement this season after another stellar Brees' effort...

The injuries were horrendous and Payton could have used it to sidestep any dismissals - but he's a bright football guy who faced and acknowledged changes to the coaching staff were needed...

You think Jim Mora would have done them? This is Payton's first head coaching gig and he's been fortunate in many regards but this team is headed in the right direction and I for one am really excited about next season...

JP just because Allen made adjustments in the 2nd half of the game doesn't help the playcalling he made in the 1st half. 1/2 a game don't cut it.A 7-9 record pretty well shows that. If his D starts costing us games early in the season and the O has to score 32+ ppg, it's still a problem winning or not. I got no choice but to take the wait and see approach but you can believe my eyes will be wide open looking at the D.

jeanpierre · 01-07-2017, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

JP just because Allen made adjustments in the 2nd half of the game doesn't help the playcalling he made in the 1st half. 1/2 a game don't cut it.A 7-9 record pretty well shows that. If his D starts costing us games early in the season and the O has to score 32+ ppg, it's still a problem winning or not. I got no choice but to take the wait and see approach but you can believe my eyes will be wide open looking at the D.

I'll tell you why it took so long...

First, look at the roster from week to week for this season; some may find the thread I maintained annoyingly unnecessary when the Saints page has the same information (which, I'd like to say was hardly ever accurate or timely and the Saints need to dismiss that deadweight as well)...

Didn't do it for a pat on the back, but I started to realize something maintaining that thread (And Thanks to Chris and KMajor for helping me with it)...

If you go through the thread you'll realize we never had the same guys starting at the same positions from week to week...

Now, in D.A.'s defense, how are you're suppose to gameplan and know how they'll perform until you hit the field?

And let me also remind everyone I wasn't thrilled with D.A.'s hiring and blowing up the 3-4 after drafting for that front for three years...

But you know what? D.A. came in, implemented a plan, and he owned the challenge from the draft, through Training Camp, and to the end of the season...

Now, the questions are do we get healthy?

Do we add another speed rusher?

Do we coach up and find ways to get Anthony and Kikaha in position for success?

Do we get a sophomore coaching jinx?

Let the offseason, draft and training camp playout then pass judgement.

But in light of the past four seasons, and while I didn't agree with blowing up the 3-4, D.A. has got this defense in a better position than it's been since our SuperBowl run...

spkb25 · 01-07-2017, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

I'll tell you why it took so long...

First, look at the roster from week to week for this season; some may find the thread I maintained annoying unnecessary when the Saints page has the same information (which, I'd like to say was hardly ever accurate or timely and the Saints need to dismiss that deadweight as well)...

Didn't do it for a pat on the back, but I started to realize something maintaining that thread (And Thanks to Chris and KMajor for helping me with it)...

If you go through the thread you'll realize we never had the same guys starting at the same positions from week to week...

Now, in D.A.'s defense, how are you're suppose to gameplan and know how they'll perform until you hit the field?

And let me also remind everyone I wasn't thrilled with D.A.'s hiring and blowing up the 3-4 after drafting for that front for three years...

But you know what? D.A. came in, implemented a plan, and he owned the challenge from the draft, through Training Camp, and to the end of the season...

Now, the questions are do we get healthy?

Do we add another speed rusher?

Do we coach up and find ways to get Anthony and Kikaha in position for success?

Do we get a sophomore coaching jinx?

Let the offseason, draft and training camp playout then pass judgement.

But in light of the pass four seasons, while I didn't agree with blowing up the 3-4, D.A. has got this defense in a better position than it's been since our SuperBowl run...

sir he is talking about the failures long before this season

AsylumGuido · 01-07-2017, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

sir he is talking about the failures long before this season

Who the hell cares other than you? I sure don't.

spkb25 · 01-07-2017, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Who the hell cares other than you? I sure don't.

No ****, you disappear as soon as the losing starts. You couldn't be found when we were losing. Then we won a few games and you and Danno were back all over the board again, then the losing began again and Halo had to get a ****ing Amber alert for your asses.

GTFOH fake fan

AsylumGuido · 01-07-2017, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by spkb25

No ****, you disappear as soon as the losing starts. You couldn't be found when we were losing. Then we won a few games and you and Danno were back all over the board again, then the losing began again and Halo had to get a ****ing Amber alert for your asses.

GTFOH fake fan

You don't know what you are talking about. I have been at this board virtually every day over the past several years. And I'll guarantee you that you can't find a bigger fan. I haven't gone a single day in the last 20 years without wearing my Saints gear. I have pulled for MY Saints every game since the very first back in 1967. Fake fan my ass. We fly Saints flags pretty much year round in front of the house.

halloween 65 · 01-07-2017, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

I'll tell you why it took so long...

First, look at the roster from week to week for this season; some may find the thread I maintained annoying unnecessary when the Saints page has the same information (which, I'd like to say was hardly ever accurate or timely and the Saints need to dismiss that deadweight as well)...

Didn't do it for a pat on the back, but I started to realize something maintaining that thread (And Thanks to Chris and KMajor for helping me with it)...

If you go through the thread you'll realize we never had the same guys starting at the same positions from week to week...

Now, in D.A.'s defense, how are you're suppose to gameplan and know how they'll perform until you hit the field?

And let me also remind everyone I wasn't thrilled with D.A.'s hiring and blowing up the 3-4 after drafting for that front for three years...

But you know what? D.A. came in, implemented a plan, and he owned the challenge from the draft, through Training Camp, and to the end of the season...

Now, the questions are do we get healthy?

Do we add another speed rusher?

Do we coach up and find ways to get Anthony and Kikaha in position for success?

Do we get a sophomore coaching jinx?

Let the offseason, draft and training camp playout then pass judgement.

But in light of the pass four seasons, while I didn't agree with blowing up the 3-4, D.A. has got this defense in a better position than it's been since our SuperBowl run...

I got no choice like I said but to watch. He's had this D 1 1/2 years already and little to nothing has changed. Bottom dwellers again last season. But as far as seeing what he had thats what practice and preseason games are for.

jeanpierre · 01-07-2017, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I got no choice like I said but to watch. He's had this D 1 1/2 years already and little to nothing has changed. Bottom dwellers again last season. But as far as seeing what he had thats what practice and preseason games are for.

Now that's wrong because the run defense went from bottom feeders to middle of the pack...

Because of injuries, we started either rookies or players who were released, cut during the first couple of weeks at the corners since Week 1...

There's a difference, an improvement and to not concede that point is just being stubborn...

AsylumGuido · 01-07-2017, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Now that's wrong because the run defense went from bottom feeders to middle of the pack...

Because of injuries, we started either rookies or players who were released, cut during the first couple of weeks at the corners since Week 1...

There's a difference, an improvement and to not concede that point is just being stubborn...

Give up, JP. spkb, halloween, dizzle and burningmetal are all determined to continue to ***** with no logical basis. They ***** for the sake of *****ing. On and on and on and on. They feed off each other. Everyone else is wrong because their agenda against the Saints the last few years cannot be justified. Not sure what they really want other than to simply continue to *****.

halloween 65 · 01-07-2017, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Now that's wrong because the run defense went from bottom feeders to middle of the pack...

Because of injuries, we started either rookies or players who were released, cut during the first couple of weeks at the corners since Week 1...

There's a difference, an improvement and to not concede that point is just being stubborn...

I was talking about overall ranking JP. There were some improvements but not enough. I'm not being stubborn. We were still ranked near the bottom just like prior years and until we don't we're bottom feeders plain and simple.There was a post a good while back when some people was tooting Allens horn( they know who they are) and I said Allen wouldn't cut it with a 25th ranked D well he didn't even get that. I don't have one ounce of faith in the guy. I'm still trying to figure out what he has ever done to even warrant the hype he gets. Payton has loaded the guy up( draft picks and FA) and I think he's not much better than RR. At least(if rankings are what look good to some not saying you) but RR ranked us 5th his first season. I didn't see the 5th rankings looking at games but those were the stats. Our front 7 have been decently health all season. Allen is 3rd in blitzing, kind of like Williams was and that don't turn out all that well when you don't get there as you know. What I have noticed about his 2nd half adjustments he tighten the box up ( sells out to stop the run) making teams beat us with their pass, looks good in stats but better qb eat us up in the passing game. I will say this if he loses Ellerbe he's screwed.

01-07-2017, 12:03 PM	#1
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by jeanpierre I don't get you guys... If you've been watching Saints football the last three years, there should be several distinct markers that showed up this season... Our defenses essentially shut teams down in the second halves of games... Our secondary really limited the big pass plays compared to previous seasons... We had three areas that glaringly led to losses this season... Kicking game directly led to three losses - so McMahon and Kwan were dismissed... Pass rush, front four were not a threat through most of the season, even when Rankins returned and Onyemata started leveling up - so the defensive line coach was dismissed... Our first round pick from last year was essentially benched and unable to "grasp" the game - after years of my incessant arguing that Vitt was a liability, my hope was answered and he was dismissed... Payton is loyal to his guys and those firings emotionally have had to wreck him - they would have for me (and I had to let a close friend go this past year in my business who I had to face was a problem)... Payton is doing exactly what is necessary, he just has to close the deal with the right hires as he had made last season... Look at the improvements in the offensive line and defensive secondary - those guys are the argument that not just head coach but assistants should win Coach of the Year... We're all upset with the record and underachievement this season after another stellar Brees' effort... The injuries were horrendous and Payton could have used it to sidestep any dismissals - but he's a bright football guy who faced and acknowledged changes to the coaching staff were needed... You think Jim Mora would have done them? This is Payton's first head coaching gig and he's been fortunate in many regards but this team is headed in the right direction and I for one am really excited about next season... JP just because Allen made adjustments in the 2nd half of the game doesn't help the playcalling he made in the 1st half. 1/2 a game don't cut it.A 7-9 record pretty well shows that. If his D starts costing us games early in the season and the O has to score 32+ ppg, it's still a problem winning or not. I got no choice but to take the wait and see approach but you can believe my eyes will be wide open looking at the D.

01-07-2017, 12:48 PM	#2
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by halloween 65 JP just because Allen made adjustments in the 2nd half of the game doesn't help the playcalling he made in the 1st half. 1/2 a game don't cut it.A 7-9 record pretty well shows that. If his D starts costing us games early in the season and the O has to score 32+ ppg, it's still a problem winning or not. I got no choice but to take the wait and see approach but you can believe my eyes will be wide open looking at the D. I'll tell you why it took so long... First, look at the roster from week to week for this season; some may find the thread I maintained annoyingly unnecessary when the Saints page has the same information (which, I'd like to say was hardly ever accurate or timely and the Saints need to dismiss that deadweight as well)... Didn't do it for a pat on the back, but I started to realize something maintaining that thread (And Thanks to Chris and KMajor for helping me with it)... If you go through the thread you'll realize we never had the same guys starting at the same positions from week to week... Now, in D.A.'s defense, how are you're suppose to gameplan and know how they'll perform until you hit the field? And let me also remind everyone I wasn't thrilled with D.A.'s hiring and blowing up the 3-4 after drafting for that front for three years... But you know what? D.A. came in, implemented a plan, and he owned the challenge from the draft, through Training Camp, and to the end of the season... Now, the questions are do we get healthy? Do we add another speed rusher? Do we coach up and find ways to get Anthony and Kikaha in position for success? Do we get a sophomore coaching jinx? Let the offseason, draft and training camp playout then pass judgement. But in light of the past four seasons, and while I didn't agree with blowing up the 3-4, D.A. has got this defense in a better position than it's been since our SuperBowl run...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 01-07-2017 at 08:20 PM..

01-07-2017, 01:26 PM	#3
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,115	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by jeanpierre I'll tell you why it took so long... First, look at the roster from week to week for this season; some may find the thread I maintained annoying unnecessary when the Saints page has the same information (which, I'd like to say was hardly ever accurate or timely and the Saints need to dismiss that deadweight as well)... Didn't do it for a pat on the back, but I started to realize something maintaining that thread (And Thanks to Chris and KMajor for helping me with it)... If you go through the thread you'll realize we never had the same guys starting at the same positions from week to week... Now, in D.A.'s defense, how are you're suppose to gameplan and know how they'll perform until you hit the field? And let me also remind everyone I wasn't thrilled with D.A.'s hiring and blowing up the 3-4 after drafting for that front for three years... But you know what? D.A. came in, implemented a plan, and he owned the challenge from the draft, through Training Camp, and to the end of the season... Now, the questions are do we get healthy? Do we add another speed rusher? Do we coach up and find ways to get Anthony and Kikaha in position for success? Do we get a sophomore coaching jinx? Let the offseason, draft and training camp playout then pass judgement. But in light of the pass four seasons, while I didn't agree with blowing up the 3-4, D.A. has got this defense in a better position than it's been since our SuperBowl run... sir he is talking about the failures long before this season

01-07-2017, 01:27 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by spkb25 sir he is talking about the failures long before this season Who the hell cares other than you? I sure don't.

01-07-2017, 01:30 PM	#5
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,115	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Who the hell cares other than you? I sure don't. No **, you disappear as soon as the losing starts. You couldn't be found when we were losing. Then we won a few games and you and Danno were back all over the board again, then the losing began again and Halo had to get a **ing Amber alert for your asses. GTFOH fake fan

01-07-2017, 03:13 PM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by spkb25 No **, you disappear as soon as the losing starts. You couldn't be found when we were losing. Then we won a few games and you and Danno were back all over the board again, then the losing began again and Halo had to get a **ing Amber alert for your asses. GTFOH fake fan You don't know what you are talking about. I have been at this board virtually every day over the past several years. And I'll guarantee you that you can't find a bigger fan. I haven't gone a single day in the last 20 years without wearing my Saints gear. I have pulled for MY Saints every game since the very first back in 1967. Fake fan my ass. We fly Saints flags pretty much year round in front of the house.

01-07-2017, 08:25 PM	#8
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by halloween 65 I got no choice like I said but to watch. He's had this D 1 1/2 years already and little to nothing has changed. Bottom dwellers again last season. But as far as seeing what he had thats what practice and preseason games are for. Now that's wrong because the run defense went from bottom feeders to middle of the pack... Because of injuries, we started either rookies or players who were released, cut during the first couple of weeks at the corners since Week 1... There's a difference, an improvement and to not concede that point is just being stubborn...

01-07-2017, 08:31 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by jeanpierre Now that's wrong because the run defense went from bottom feeders to middle of the pack... Because of injuries, we started either rookies or players who were released, cut during the first couple of weeks at the corners since Week 1... There's a difference, an improvement and to not concede that point is just being stubborn... Give up, JP. spkb, halloween, dizzle and burningmetal are all determined to continue to *** with no logical basis. They * for the sake of *ing. On and on and on and on. They feed off each other. Everyone else is wrong because their agenda against the Saints the last few years cannot be justified. Not sure what they really want other than to simply continue to ***.

01-07-2017, 10:12 PM	#10
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Vitt, Johnson, McMahon, Kwan, Willis FIRED Originally Posted by jeanpierre Now that's wrong because the run defense went from bottom feeders to middle of the pack... Because of injuries, we started either rookies or players who were released, cut during the first couple of weeks at the corners since Week 1... There's a difference, an improvement and to not concede that point is just being stubborn... I was talking about overall ranking JP. There were some improvements but not enough. I'm not being stubborn. We were still ranked near the bottom just like prior years and until we don't we're bottom feeders plain and simple.There was a post a good while back when some people was tooting Allens horn( they know who they are) and I said Allen wouldn't cut it with a 25th ranked D well he didn't even get that. I don't have one ounce of faith in the guy. I'm still trying to figure out what he has ever done to even warrant the hype he gets. Payton has loaded the guy up( draft picks and FA) and I think he's not much better than RR. At least(if rankings are what look good to some not saying you) but RR ranked us 5th his first season. I didn't see the 5th rankings looking at games but those were the stats. Our front 7 have been decently health all season. Allen is 3rd in blitzing, kind of like Williams was and that don't turn out all that well when you don't get there as you know. What I have noticed about his 2nd half adjustments he tighten the box up ( sells out to stop the run) making teams beat us with their pass, looks good in stats but better qb eat us up in the passing game. I will say this if he loses Ellerbe he's screwed.

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