The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started

AsylumGuido · 01-07-2017, 10:33 PM

The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started

...

Dennis Allen runs a highly aggressive scheme that is designed to be multiple, always on the attack, but simple enough that his players are always able to execute. Nick Underhill of The Advocate wrote this article about how Allen’s scheme allows him to be aggressive without sacrificing sound defense. We saw a lot of those concepts come into play this season, and that is despite the Saints going from what was supposed to be a deep secondary to an ICU in a matter of weeks. By the end of the second week of the season, the Saints had already lost their top five cornerbacks going into the year, and their 1st round pick Sheldon Rankins who was supposed to help improve the pass rush.

Allen’s unit fought through that adversity, and while at times the results were exactly what you would expect when you are playing a bunch of guys either past their prime, or who never had one at all, improvement was shown. The Saints went from one of the worst teams in the league at defending against the run to an above average one this season under Allen. And while the defense moved only from awful to mediocre, that is still a major improvement.

The reality is that Dennis Allen is still lacking some key pieces to run his scheme right, which is why he should not only be given the time to bring in those pieces, but also has earned that right. Allen was able to bring out significant improvement in the defense with a bunch of mismatched (and often misfit) toys to play with. There was a black hole opposite Cameron Jordan all season long, he never had a healthy group of NFL quality cornerbacks after the first half against the Raiders, and his linebacking unit was poor at best.

...

dizzle88 · 01-08-2017, 06:23 AM

Injuries to multiple positions didn't exactly help Allen, and whilst I think we should jump at the chance to get Wade Phillips whilst we can, Allen's second half adjustments were really good.

Even when Breaux came back, he must not have been fully recovered or very rusty as he had regressed a lot.

Hopefully guys like Kikaha, Breaux, PJ williams, Damian Swann, Erik Harris and numerous others can come back and stay healthy.

I think someone who was often overlooked last season was David Onyemata, he didn't make any "wow" plays but he was solid for a late round pick.

Crusader · 01-08-2017, 07:52 AM

Very good read. Thanks for posting!

halloween 65 · 01-08-2017, 09:43 AM

Well since he's going nowhere we'll get to see ? By game 6 the dust should settle and we will see what we got? I think Paytons job depends on how he performs.

SmashMouth · 01-08-2017, 09:46 AM

Or he could just bring in Wade to help.

K Major · 01-08-2017, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Or he could just bring in Wade to help.

Looking at our roster, I don't see the personnel to run a 3-4 (Wade type defense) and it would be another 2 years before Saints had proper draft picks/players in place to be successful.

Square pegs ... round holes.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-08-2017, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Or he could just bring in Wade to help.

Why would Wade Phillips agree to that? Wade has been a head coach in this league. He is an extremely successful DC.

I think everyone has forgotten that there are currently 6 open head coach positions. So exactly why would Wade take a demotion (or even a parallel transfer) to come here when he now has the opportunity to run the show again?

SFIAH

SmashMouth · 01-08-2017, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Why would Wade Phillips agree to that? Wade has been a head coach in this league. He is an extremely successful DC.

I think everyone has forgotten that there are currently 6 open head coach positions. So exactly why would Wade take a demotion (or even a parallel transfer) to come here when he now has the opportunity to run the show again?

SFIAH

He's in the waning years of hid coaching career. He has a ring already as DC. He has stated he wants to stay in Denver. But if he does not, why not have him come in and help with Allen in charge? And why not adapt a system to fit the players at hand? What is Allen doing with Anthony, a LB that was practically ROY?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-08-2017, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

He's in the waning years of hid catching career. He has a ring already as DC. He has stated he wants to stay in Denver. But if he does not, why not have him come in and help with Allen in charge? And why not adapt a system to fit the players at hand?

Because Phillips has his system that's he's been running for nearly 30 years. As you stated he's on the back end of career. So why bother with having to share responsibility with someone who does not share philosophy and doesn't have the personnel to implement. You get exactly the same mess that you saw at the beginning of 2015 with Allen and Ryan.

In short there is no upside for Phillips. I am pretty certain his first thought would be: "I'm too old for this ****."

What is Allen doing with Anthony, a LB that was practically ROY?

Different issue. Allen wasn't involved with the Anthony pick. So Anthony isn't Allen's guy. And of course Vitt was coaching the linebackers, of which none have been properly developed. I was thinking about the fact that all the productive linebackers the Saints have had in the last 10 years came from elsewhere. Vilma, Fujita, Shanle. Even Ellerbe and Robinson now. None were drafted by us.

Honestly, if folks simply labeled these thoughts as wishful thinking, I'd probably leave them alone. But since it seems that getting Phillips in here is being seriously pitched, then I have to ask what's in it for Phillips? I cannot see any upside for him.

SFIAH

AsylumGuido · 01-08-2017, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Because Phillips has his system that's he's been running for nearly 30 years. As you stated he's on the back end of career. So why bother with having to share responsibility with someone who does not share philosophy and doesn't have the personnel to implement. You get exactly the same mess that you saw at the beginning of 2015 with Allen and Ryan.

In short there is no upside for Phillips. I am pretty certain his first thought would be: "I'm too old for this ****."

Different issue. Allen wasn't involved with the Anthony pick. So Anthony isn't Allen's guy. And of course Vitt was coaching the linebackers, of which none have been properly developed. I was thinking about the fact that all the productive linebackers the Saints have had in the last 10 years came from elsewhere. Vilma, Fujita, Shanle. Even Ellerbe and Robinson now. None were drafted by us.

Honestly, if folks simply labeled these thoughts as wishful thinking, I'd probably leave them alone. But since it seems that getting Phillips in here is being seriously pitched, then I have to ask what's in it for Phillips? I cannot see any upside for him.

SFIAH

I have made exactly the same points and have had exactly the same question.

01-07-2017, 10:33 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started ... Dennis Allen runs a highly aggressive scheme that is designed to be multiple, always on the attack, but simple enough that his players are always able to execute. Nick Underhill of The Advocate wrote this article about how Allen’s scheme allows him to be aggressive without sacrificing sound defense. We saw a lot of those concepts come into play this season, and that is despite the Saints going from what was supposed to be a deep secondary to an ICU in a matter of weeks. By the end of the second week of the season, the Saints had already lost their top five cornerbacks going into the year, and their 1st round pick Sheldon Rankins who was supposed to help improve the pass rush. Allen’s unit fought through that adversity, and while at times the results were exactly what you would expect when you are playing a bunch of guys either past their prime, or who never had one at all, improvement was shown. The Saints went from one of the worst teams in the league at defending against the run to an above average one this season under Allen. And while the defense moved only from awful to mediocre, that is still a major improvement. The reality is that Dennis Allen is still lacking some key pieces to run his scheme right, which is why he should not only be given the time to bring in those pieces, but also has earned that right. Allen was able to bring out significant improvement in the defense with a bunch of mismatched (and often misfit) toys to play with. There was a black hole opposite Cameron Jordan all season long, he never had a healthy group of NFL quality cornerbacks after the first half against the Raiders, and his linebacking unit was poor at best. ... darksoul35 and MarchingOn like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill Last edited by Halo; 01-09-2017 at 07:35 AM..

01-08-2017, 06:23 AM	#2
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Injuries to multiple positions didn't exactly help Allen, and whilst I think we should jump at the chance to get Wade Phillips whilst we can, Allen's second half adjustments were really good. Even when Breaux came back, he must not have been fully recovered or very rusty as he had regressed a lot. Hopefully guys like Kikaha, Breaux, PJ williams, Damian Swann, Erik Harris and numerous others can come back and stay healthy. I think someone who was often overlooked last season was David Onyemata, he didn't make any "wow" plays but he was solid for a late round pick. nola_swammi likes this.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

01-08-2017, 07:52 AM	#3
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,030	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Very good read. Thanks for posting!

01-08-2017, 09:43 AM	#4
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Well since he's going nowhere we'll get to see ? By game 6 the dust should settle and we will see what we got? I think Paytons job depends on how he performs. SmashMouth likes this.

01-08-2017, 09:46 AM	#5
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,477 Blog Entries: 29	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Or he could just bring in Wade to help. halloween 65 likes this.

01-08-2017, 10:44 AM	#6
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,738 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Originally Posted by SmashMouth Or he could just bring in Wade to help. Looking at our roster, I don't see the personnel to run a 3-4 (Wade type defense) and it would be another 2 years before Saints had proper draft picks/players in place to be successful. Square pegs ... round holes. SaintFanInATLHELL and RockyMountainSaint like this.

01-08-2017, 10:55 AM	#7
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Originally Posted by SmashMouth Or he could just bring in Wade to help. Why would Wade Phillips agree to that? Wade has been a head coach in this league. He is an extremely successful DC. I think everyone has forgotten that there are currently 6 open head coach positions. So exactly why would Wade take a demotion (or even a parallel transfer) to come here when he now has the opportunity to run the show again? SFIAH AsylumGuido and K Major like this.

01-08-2017, 11:01 AM	#8
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,477 Blog Entries: 29	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Why would Wade Phillips agree to that? Wade has been a head coach in this league. He is an extremely successful DC. I think everyone has forgotten that there are currently 6 open head coach positions. So exactly why would Wade take a demotion (or even a parallel transfer) to come here when he now has the opportunity to run the show again? SFIAH He's in the waning years of hid coaching career. He has a ring already as DC. He has stated he wants to stay in Denver. But if he does not, why not have him come in and help with Allen in charge? And why not adapt a system to fit the players at hand? What is Allen doing with Anthony, a LB that was practically ROY? halloween 65 likes this.
	Last edited by SmashMouth; 01-08-2017 at 03:51 PM..

01-08-2017, 12:54 PM	#9
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Originally Posted by SmashMouth He's in the waning years of hid catching career. He has a ring already as DC. He has stated he wants to stay in Denver. But if he does not, why not have him come in and help with Allen in charge? And why not adapt a system to fit the players at hand? Because Phillips has his system that's he's been running for nearly 30 years. As you stated he's on the back end of career. So why bother with having to share responsibility with someone who does not share philosophy and doesn't have the personnel to implement. You get exactly the same mess that you saw at the beginning of 2015 with Allen and Ryan. In short there is no upside for Phillips. I am pretty certain his first thought would be: "I'm too old for this ****." What is Allen doing with Anthony, a LB that was practically ROY? Different issue. Allen wasn't involved with the Anthony pick. So Anthony isn't Allen's guy. And of course Vitt was coaching the linebackers, of which none have been properly developed. I was thinking about the fact that all the productive linebackers the Saints have had in the last 10 years came from elsewhere. Vilma, Fujita, Shanle. Even Ellerbe and Robinson now. None were drafted by us. Honestly, if folks simply labeled these thoughts as wishful thinking, I'd probably leave them alone. But since it seems that getting Phillips in here is being seriously pitched, then I have to ask what's in it for Phillips? I cannot see any upside for him. SFIAH AsylumGuido and K Major like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

01-08-2017, 01:44 PM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,472	Re: The New Orleans Saints Should Let Dennis Allen Finish the Rebuild He Started Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Because Phillips has his system that's he's been running for nearly 30 years. As you stated he's on the back end of career. So why bother with having to share responsibility with someone who does not share philosophy and doesn't have the personnel to implement. You get exactly the same mess that you saw at the beginning of 2015 with Allen and Ryan. In short there is no upside for Phillips. I am pretty certain his first thought would be: "I'm too old for this ****." Different issue. Allen wasn't involved with the Anthony pick. So Anthony isn't Allen's guy. And of course Vitt was coaching the linebackers, of which none have been properly developed. I was thinking about the fact that all the productive linebackers the Saints have had in the last 10 years came from elsewhere. Vilma, Fujita, Shanle. Even Ellerbe and Robinson now. None were drafted by us. Honestly, if folks simply labeled these thoughts as wishful thinking, I'd probably leave them alone. But since it seems that getting Phillips in here is being seriously pitched, then I have to ask what's in it for Phillips? I cannot see any upside for him. SFIAH I have made exactly the same points and have had exactly the same question.

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