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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; As a Saints' fan I've been disappointed more years than I care to remember. I started watching the Saints in the early 70's, so we can go way back and talk about it all if you want to. But, I ...
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03-19-2005, 10:04 AM | #1 |
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Dwelling on the past?
As a Saints' fan I've been disappointed more years than I care to remember. I started watching the Saints in the early 70's, so we can go way back and talk about it all if you want to.
But, I prefer not to dwell on the past as it really has no bearing on the future. Really, all I'm interested in is the 2005 season. Not 2004 or 2003 or any of the previous years. It seems to me that some Saints' fans love to dwell on the past more than they should. It seems to me that they are some of the more bitter fans I've ever encountered. Even Boston Redsox fans never bashed their team the way some Saints' fans have. What's my point? Well, I'm going to use WhoDat as an example. WhoDat has said this team has had enough talent to go to the playoffs the past few years. Now, I'm not putting words in his mouth and I'm not disagreeing with him either. But then WhoDat knocks this team every offseason and says they haven't added enough talent to compete. And he basically tries to convince everyone to expect more of the same. If WhoDat thinks this team has enough talent to go to the playoff every year, that must mean Haslett and co. have assembled more talent than most teams in the NFL?! Playoff teams are the cream of the crop in the NFL. Now, I can tell you right now WhoDat will counter this by saying that "coaching" is the problem and not talent. But facts are facts!! And the facts are ... WhoDat says this team is severly lacking in talent. Then he says this team has enough talent to be an elite team. And playoff teams are elite teams. For the record ... I think if you add all the talent up on this team that it equals about a .500 team. Just look at the talent of defense the past few years and it's not hard to see the lack of talent when compared to the rest of the NFL. And if you think our offense should have carried us to the promised land, then I don't really see that either. We've got Joe Horn, Deuce McAllister, and Aaron Brooks and not much after that on offense. Still, it's not like we're that far away from being a playoff team. The secondary is much improved when compared to previous years. Deuce is back healthy. The offensive line should be better. But, we still need LB. Look, I could go on and on. But, if someone's sole purpose on this board is to dwell on the negatives and point to the past and try to convince folks that we are going to suck, then why follow the Saints and spend so much time on a Saints' message board? |
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03-19-2005, 10:51 AM | #2 |
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Dwelling on the past?
Wow. I wonder what your purpose is with this thread Billy. Hopefully, another Mod will lock this before it gets ugly. I\'ll try to keep it civil and simply expose you for what you are.
Hey Billy, what were our major needs coming into this offseason? 1. LB 2. OT 3. DT 4. S How about last year? 1. LB 2. CB 3. DT Year before? 1. LB 2. DT 3. CB 4. S Starting to see a trend? I\'m quite sure that you\'re not. You haven\'t seen it in 4 years, despite many people explaining it you in language a four year old could understand. There are two issues. The first is addressing the right position. The second is getting the right player. You want to point to signings like the Orlando Ruff signing (I\'ll go get a quote if you want), and say that they did address positions of need. But they have never ADEQUATELY addressed them. Orlando Ruff and Levar Fisher or whatever the guy\'s name is aren\'t exactly solving the problem.
You\'re predicted 12-4, 10-6 or 11-5, and last year you didn\'t even make a prediction b/c you\'d been destroyed the previous two years. The title of this thread is a thin veil to cover your true intent. This thread is about nothing but attacking my credibility. I would deal with it, but that would just give you more ammunition. I hope another Mod will. But before they do, I\'ll show the other new guys a little something... Generally guys, you see a LOT of these types of posts from Billy about me every offseason. Here\'s what you see after the season: |
\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse
\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\" |
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03-19-2005, 10:53 AM | #3 |
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Dwelling on the past?
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03-19-2005, 10:59 AM | #4 |
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Dwelling on the past?
A few other GREAT predictions - this is why he doesn\'t make predictions anymore he only attacks other\'s...
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03-19-2005, 11:04 AM | #5 |
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Dwelling on the past?
i think being a playoff team is by no means \"cream of the crop\". 37.5% of the teams go to the playoffs. that is why it is such an indictment to not even make that grade for 4 years.
i think this team has been criticized and identified not by just fans but widely from national media as being perhaps the most underachieving team in the league. as for pure talent, i do think they have had enough to have been in the playoffs at least. after you get there, that is another story that establishes a team\'s legacy at a higher level. during the past season the arizona game was a solid \"should have won\" game. at least one or maybe both the atlanta and minny losses were \"shouldas\". that is 10 or 11 wins and playoffs. not losing games that should be won are more vital to continued success than pulling off the big upsets imo. that is what this team has done these past few years- some high flying big wins along with collapses like the 2002 end losses to minny and league dregs carolina and cincy to not take that next step. i started a thread looking at the vikings overhaul this offseason. whether it works or not it is to be seen. what i liked though is that after a similar history as the saints the past 5 years (strong offense, porous defense, one playoff appearance during tice\'s 4yr reign) they decided not to be satidfied with the same formula that has yielded similar results year after year. defense does win championships. so? let\'s get defense then. let\'s get rid of an obnoxious prima donna even if he is one of the best ever at his position. if we do not go anywhere again let\'s not do it over the same way we have the past 4 years. i will count the saints offseason successful if they get the dat n 2nd trade done. if it is the same group of LBs less hodge depending on another rookie i cannot do that. i would however have been more excited to see the defense overhauled ala the vikings. not necessarily the biggest names or highest costing players but make decisive impacting changes to the very last ranked defense inthe league. the who\'s and how\'s of that are and endless speculation that many have pondered here. i am hopeful. i am a saints fan so you better have hope. many years that is all there is. i just know what i see on the field and what an administration is by there actions. these players can and should be achieving more. loomis is no finks. ps/ calling dat out like that is bullsh!t. quit arguing for the sake of arguing and purposefully trying to attract attention through such immature pot stirring. [Edited on 19/3/2005 by LKelley67] |
03-19-2005, 11:12 AM | #6 |
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Dwelling on the past?
WhoDat --
I used you as an example, athough I could have used one of many guys on this board. But, I used you because of you inconsisent views. It seems to me that you \"double-dip\" when it comes to the talent vs. coaching issue. Example:
That\'s where you lose me, WhoDat. I\'m really not trying to diminish your \"credibility\", I\'m just trying to understand your position. In other threads you consistently say that this team is \"severly\" lacking in talent. Here\'s some areas you say we need other players: 1. Quarterback. 2. Both offensive tackles. 3. Tightend. 4. MLB. 5. SLB. 6. WLB. 7. DT 8. CB 9. FS What gives? Why don\'t you consistently state that Haslett and company have done a fine job of assembling playoff talent and that coaching is the problem. Instead, you seem to be all over the place. Haslett can\'t develop talent. Haslett can\'t spot talent. Then you turn right around and say:
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03-19-2005, 12:18 PM | #7 |
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Dwelling on the past?
.. for a guy whose posts have stats plastered all over 9 out of 10 times... :rollinglaugh: |
03-19-2005, 02:19 PM | #8 |
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Dwelling on the past?
Thin ice, boys, very thin ice! Play nice.
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03-19-2005, 10:00 PM | #9 |
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Dwelling on the past?
I don\'t recall ever saying that the Saints uniformly lacked talent. I have said that there are \"severe\" (your word) gaps in the talent pool AT KEY POSITIONS. Linebacker is one of those, and has been for a long time. Wouldn\'t you agree? As for, how I can say that this team has the ability to make the playoffs and simultaneously need to upgrade - I don\'t see how that\'s a problem. If your goal is to make the playoffs, that\'s fine. I want to see the Saints win it all. What does that mean? Let me explain clearly. - The Saints have the talent to make the playoffs. Coaching, maturity, and leadership have kept them from it. - The Saints need to upgrade at KEY positions to become an upper tier Super Bowl contender. - For all of the talent this Front Office has accumulated, it seems to have squandered incredible opportunity the last few years by ignoring the KEY positions like LB and DT, or by making incorrect choices... I don\'t think it\'s all that hard a concept. Seattle made the playoffs, right? Does that mean that they don\'t need to improve? Does that mean that they have all the talent that they need at every position? I think the clear answer is no. Just b/c the Saints have the talent to make the playoffs doesn\'t mean that they don\'t have needs and areas in which they can improve. Would you disagree? |
\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse
\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\" |
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03-19-2005, 11:36 PM | #10 |
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Dwelling on the past?
Ok. First of all, Billy is more of a optimist. Nothing wrong with that. His love for the game and the Saints brings him into every offseason as another season that \"might be the year.\" He dives into stats and sometimes his loyalty to players and coaches drives him to believe that this year might be different. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with that. I\'ve been a member of this site for a close to 2 years now. I never started posting things on the forums until recently. Personally I have enjoyed reading some postive feedback from different fans on the sight. Billy always has hope. Nothing wrong with that.
Whodat is more of a realist. He looks into the stats but most of his post are more of a realistic look at the team. Whodat has hope but dosen\'t let it get in the way of his approach to the team or the coaches. It may seem Whodat is more of a negetive person when it comes to the Saints, but he looks at the team needs. Whodat evaluates players, not just by stats, but by worth. Whether or not he likes the player, the loyalty to the player rarely out weighs the need for change. There is nothing wrong with that, either. Both of you guys make dang good points. Billy keeps the hope, Whodat keeps it real. Two different fans with two different views. I will say when you guys get p**sed at each other, it gets pretty da*m funny. I just wanted to add some rather obvious insight to the thread. |