Horn's contract demands...

papz · 03-21-2005, 10:03 AM

AP reports after saying Thursday night that he would not report to the Saints until a new contact was done, WR Joe Horn said on Friday that because negotiations had re-opened, he will report on Monday for the start of the Saints' offseason conditioning program. The Saints paid Horn a $1 million roster bonus on Thursday, March 18. Contrary to published reports, the Saints have been trying in earnest to negotiate a new long-term contract for Horn that would lower his 2005 cap hit and secure his career in New Orleans. The Saints asked Horn to delay the $1 million roster bonus during negotiations, but Horn and his agent Ralph Vitolo refused. Saints GM Mickey Loomis and HC Jim Haslett are on the way to Hawaii for owner's meetings so negotiations, for the next few days, could be over the phone. The Saints' last offer included a $7 million signing bonus, a $2 million roster bonus in March 2006, $650,000 salary for the 2005 season, $700,000 for 06 and a $5.4 million salary in 2007. Both sides have agreed that the contract can be for six years so that the Saints can spread the signing bonus out and reduce Horn's immediate cap hit. Horn is currently due $3.8 million in base salary this season. Vitolo has come down to - and said he will not move off of - $8 million signing bonus up front, $2 million roster bonus next March, $800,000 salary in 05, $1 million in 06, and $5.9 million in 07. Key to this deal, according to Horn and Vitolo, is the first three years, which average $18 million, $6 million per year. The 2005 transition tag number for wide receivers, the average of the top ten player salaries at the position, is $6.5 million. The franchise tag, the average of the top five, is $7.768 million. The Saints turned down the counter offer on Thursday and had no choice but to play Horn his $1 million roster bonus from the contract he signed two years ago.

That's pretty affordable and not bad for both sides. Basically a three year contract.

GumboBC · 03-21-2005, 11:01 AM

Hey ... whatever!!

As long as the team and Joe Horn can work out a contract that brings Joe back .. then I\'m fine with it. If the Saints feel like Joe is worth whatever they pay him ... then fine.

Personally ... I\'m sick of hearing Joe Horn\'s mouth. The dude says he wants to finish his career in New Orleans. But earlier he said that maybe the Saints should ride out of New Orleans if the fans didn\'t start showing the team some respect.

I can put up with Joe Horn and his big mouth. That is ... as long as he keeps producing on the field. But, Joe hasn\'t shown the coaches much respect through the years. He also hasn\'t shown the fans much respect through the years. And on the field, Joe\'s antics have been even more troubling than his big mouth.

Joe Horn is like the Warren Sapp of wide receivers. Plays great but his mouth and ego makes him look like an idiot!

WhoDat · 03-21-2005, 11:30 AM

Joe hasn\'t shown the coaches much respect through the years.

You base this statement on....????

So Horn is looking for $6 million a season. Which would make him the 7th highest paid WR in the league RIGHT NOW (as in, he won\'t be 7th 3 years from now). He would also get $1.8 million per season LESS than the franchise tag and half a million per season less than the current TRANSITION tag. Sounds pretty good to me. I\'m sure all you guys who said Joe was between 7th and 10th are happy now, right? LOL

Wide receiver
Randy Moss, Minn. $8,630,327
Marvin Harrison, Ind. $8,082,880
Isaac Bruce, St. L. $7,640,709
Eric Moulds, Buf. $7,245,000
Terrell Owens, Phi. $7,243,333
Jimmy Smith, Jax $6,349,333
Derrick Mason, Tenn. $5,802,500

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...-players_x.htm

Oh, and PS - the contract is heavily backloaded, so if Horn\'s play drops off b/w now and two years from now the Saints can save $5.5 million by cutting him before the 2007 season. $600K in \'05, $750K in \'06... is this guy asking to get overpaid or what?

[Edited on 21/3/2005 by WhoDat]

saintswhodi · 03-21-2005, 11:35 AM

is this guy asking to get overpaid or what?

So Joe Horn CHANGES HIS MIND about wanting a top 5 contract, and WhoDat claims victory. Nice. :seeingstars:

GumboBC · 03-21-2005, 11:37 AM

WhoDat --

What do I base it on? Oh, the many times Joe Horn has blasted Haslett and co. in the media. That\'s something that should have been handled behind closed doors. Just proves to me that Joe Horn isn\'t much of a team player. Joe needs to play and let the coaches coach. Archie Manning certainly never blased the team in the media through all the problems.

Joe IS the Warren Sapp of wide receivers. Big mouth. Big ego. But, like Sapp, he plays good on the field and goes to the probowl. I guess we\'ll have to excuse Joe Horn as long as he goes to the probowl.

Still, I\'d rather have T.O. or Randy Moss if we\'ve gotta put with Joe\'s big mouth and his antics.

WhoDat · 03-21-2005, 11:40 AM

Archie Manning certainly never blased the team in the media through all the problems.

But didn\'t you call the Mannings overrated? I think you said that you equate the name Manning with the word \"loser.\" Is that accurate? LOL.

Guess I\'d rather have a loud-mouthed winner than the loveable loser.

PS - your bias is showing. Talking is OK if your name is Owens or Moss - not Horn. Agenda much?

papz · 03-21-2005, 11:40 AM

I hate to admit it, but he called it. Even for 33, that\'s a good deal. Jimmy Smith is still producing and he\'s getting way up there in age. For around 6 million, that\'s fair and is actually a bargain. Plus he knows the system and the quarterback so that\'s always a plus.

GumboBC · 03-21-2005, 11:55 AM

But didn\'t you call the Mannings overrated? I think you said that you equate the name Manning with the word \"loser.\" Is that accurate? LOL.

Guess I\'d rather have a loud-mouthed winner than the loveable loser.

PS - your bias is showing. Talking is OK if your name is Owens or Moss - not Horn. Agenda much?

Yeah, I do think the Mannings are overrated. But, we\'ll save that debate for another time.

WhoDat -- For someone who claims to put leadership and integrity at the top of the list for NFL players. You seem to be FLIP FLOPPING when it comes to Joe Horn.

FLIP FLOPPING --- That\'s all I wanted to say...

JKool · 03-21-2005, 12:15 PM

We\'ll ask him to restructure in the third year. His cap hit for that year if we cut him would 3.75 mil (the cost of his remaining pro-rated bonus). Or maybe we won\'t... we did chose to take an additional 1.3 mil hit just to get rid of T-buck.

Loomis isn\'t the genius that people keep implying he is - we could have SAVED 1.3 mil by keeping T-buck to play ST or even SS. Instead we sent him off to MIA without any compensation at all! He was our leading tackler. Don\'t get me worng, I\'m not a huge T-buck fan, but WTF?

saintswhodi · 03-21-2005, 12:20 PM

Sending T-buck off wasn\'t about money Kool, it was about sending a message and admitting a mistake. I thought it was the right message. If you are not performing that will no longer be tolerated, no matter who you are. Maybe that\'s why Sully wants to show up in shape and ready. Maybe that\'s why Joe changed his mind about the contract he was willing to take. Who knows? But cutting T-Buck was not about saving money, so I think the Saints are still above average when dealing with the cap.

03-21-2005, 10:03 AM	#1
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	Horn's contract demands... AP reports after saying Thursday night that he would not report to the Saints until a new contact was done, WR Joe Horn said on Friday that because negotiations had re-opened, he will report on Monday for the start of the Saints' offseason conditioning program. The Saints paid Horn a $1 million roster bonus on Thursday, March 18. Contrary to published reports, the Saints have been trying in earnest to negotiate a new long-term contract for Horn that would lower his 2005 cap hit and secure his career in New Orleans. The Saints asked Horn to delay the $1 million roster bonus during negotiations, but Horn and his agent Ralph Vitolo refused. Saints GM Mickey Loomis and HC Jim Haslett are on the way to Hawaii for owner's meetings so negotiations, for the next few days, could be over the phone. The Saints' last offer included a $7 million signing bonus, a $2 million roster bonus in March 2006, $650,000 salary for the 2005 season, $700,000 for 06 and a $5.4 million salary in 2007. Both sides have agreed that the contract can be for six years so that the Saints can spread the signing bonus out and reduce Horn's immediate cap hit. Horn is currently due $3.8 million in base salary this season. Vitolo has come down to - and said he will not move off of - $8 million signing bonus up front, $2 million roster bonus next March, $800,000 salary in 05, $1 million in 06, and $5.9 million in 07. Key to this deal, according to Horn and Vitolo, is the first three years, which average $18 million, $6 million per year. The 2005 transition tag number for wide receivers, the average of the top ten player salaries at the position, is $6.5 million. The franchise tag, the average of the top five, is $7.768 million. The Saints turned down the counter offer on Thursday and had no choice but to play Horn his $1 million roster bonus from the contract he signed two years ago. That's pretty affordable and not bad for both sides. Basically a three year contract.

03-21-2005, 11:01 AM	#2
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Horn's contract demands... Hey ... whatever!! As long as the team and Joe Horn can work out a contract that brings Joe back .. then I\'m fine with it. If the Saints feel like Joe is worth whatever they pay him ... then fine. Personally ... I\'m sick of hearing Joe Horn\'s mouth. The dude says he wants to finish his career in New Orleans. But earlier he said that maybe the Saints should ride out of New Orleans if the fans didn\'t start showing the team some respect. I can put up with Joe Horn and his big mouth. That is ... as long as he keeps producing on the field. But, Joe hasn\'t shown the coaches much respect through the years. He also hasn\'t shown the fans much respect through the years. And on the field, Joe\'s antics have been even more troubling than his big mouth. Joe Horn is like the Warren Sapp of wide receivers. Plays great but his mouth and ego makes him look like an idiot!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-21-2005, 11:30 AM	#3
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Horn's contract demands... Joe hasn\'t shown the coaches much respect through the years. You base this statement on....???? So Horn is looking for $6 million a season. Which would make him the 7th highest paid WR in the league RIGHT NOW (as in, he won\'t be 7th 3 years from now). He would also get $1.8 million per season LESS than the franchise tag and half a million per season less than the current TRANSITION tag. Sounds pretty good to me. I\'m sure all you guys who said Joe was between 7th and 10th are happy now, right? LOL Wide receiver Randy Moss, Minn. $8,630,327 Marvin Harrison, Ind. $8,082,880 Isaac Bruce, St. L. $7,640,709 Eric Moulds, Buf. $7,245,000 Terrell Owens, Phi. $7,243,333 Jimmy Smith, Jax $6,349,333 Derrick Mason, Tenn. $5,802,500 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...-players_x.htm Oh, and PS - the contract is heavily backloaded, so if Horn\'s play drops off b/w now and two years from now the Saints can save $5.5 million by cutting him before the 2007 season. $600K in \'05, $750K in \'06... is this guy asking to get overpaid or what? [Edited on 21/3/2005 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-21-2005, 11:35 AM	#4
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Horn's contract demands... is this guy asking to get overpaid or what? So Joe Horn CHANGES HIS MIND about wanting a top 5 contract, and WhoDat claims victory. Nice. :seeingstars:

03-21-2005, 11:37 AM	#5
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Horn's contract demands... WhoDat -- What do I base it on? Oh, the many times Joe Horn has blasted Haslett and co. in the media. That\'s something that should have been handled behind closed doors. Just proves to me that Joe Horn isn\'t much of a team player. Joe needs to play and let the coaches coach. Archie Manning certainly never blased the team in the media through all the problems. Joe IS the Warren Sapp of wide receivers. Big mouth. Big ego. But, like Sapp, he plays good on the field and goes to the probowl. I guess we\'ll have to excuse Joe Horn as long as he goes to the probowl. Still, I\'d rather have T.O. or Randy Moss if we\'ve gotta put with Joe\'s big mouth and his antics.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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03-21-2005, 11:40 AM	#6
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Horn's contract demands... Archie Manning certainly never blased the team in the media through all the problems. But didn\'t you call the Mannings overrated? I think you said that you equate the name Manning with the word \"loser.\" Is that accurate? LOL. Guess I\'d rather have a loud-mouthed winner than the loveable loser. PS - your bias is showing. Talking is OK if your name is Owens or Moss - not Horn. Agenda much?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

03-21-2005, 11:40 AM	#7
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,737	Horn's contract demands... I hate to admit it, but he called it. Even for 33, that\'s a good deal. Jimmy Smith is still producing and he\'s getting way up there in age. For around 6 million, that\'s fair and is actually a bargain. Plus he knows the system and the quarterback so that\'s always a plus.

03-21-2005, 11:55 AM	#8
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Horn's contract demands... But didn\'t you call the Mannings overrated? I think you said that you equate the name Manning with the word \"loser.\" Is that accurate? LOL. Guess I\'d rather have a loud-mouthed winner than the loveable loser. PS - your bias is showing. Talking is OK if your name is Owens or Moss - not Horn. Agenda much? Yeah, I do think the Mannings are overrated. But, we\'ll save that debate for another time. WhoDat -- For someone who claims to put leadership and integrity at the top of the list for NFL players. You seem to be FLIP FLOPPING when it comes to Joe Horn. FLIP FLOPPING --- That\'s all I wanted to say...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-21-2005, 12:15 PM	#9
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Horn's contract demands... We\'ll ask him to restructure in the third year. His cap hit for that year if we cut him would 3.75 mil (the cost of his remaining pro-rated bonus). Or maybe we won\'t... we did chose to take an additional 1.3 mil hit just to get rid of T-buck. Loomis isn\'t the genius that people keep implying he is - we could have SAVED 1.3 mil by keeping T-buck to play ST or even SS. Instead we sent him off to MIA without any compensation at all! He was our leading tackler. Don\'t get me worng, I\'m not a huge T-buck fan, but WTF?
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

03-21-2005, 12:20 PM	#10
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Horn's contract demands... Sending T-buck off wasn\'t about money Kool, it was about sending a message and admitting a mistake. I thought it was the right message. If you are not performing that will no longer be tolerated, no matter who you are. Maybe that\'s why Sully wants to show up in shape and ready. Maybe that\'s why Joe changed his mind about the contract he was willing to take. Who knows? But cutting T-Buck was not about saving money, so I think the Saints are still above average when dealing with the cap.