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-   -   Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday! (https://blackandgold.com/saints/81937-breaking-malcolm-butler-visiting-saints-thursday.html)

burningmetal 03-15-2017 02:01 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Scott F

"it doesn't, because that's not how it works. Look at Lee's post.
We get a deal with him in principle, and then call NE and work the trade (That second part is probably already done). He signs the 3.9 tender with them, gets traded to us, and then signs his new deal.
Zero percent chance we are giving up #11 for him in any scenario"


Once again, what makes you think the Patriots are going to trade him on OUR terms? What I'm talking about is if the Saints sign him to an offer sheet, and the Patriots don't match. That would, in fact, mean that they automatically lose their 11th pick. You're saying you think he'll be traded. Fine. That's your opinion, and perhaps you're right, which is something I already said to Lee about his post.

But IF the Pats trade him to us, what makes anyone believe we'll get the better end of that deal? They will at the very least ask for the #32 pick, and possibly a late round pick thrown in, after seeing how the Cooks trade went down.

The worst thing, in my opinion, is that we don't need Butler. And I don't believe he is what the Saints think he is. And before someone comes in and says the ole one liner of "the Saints know better than you do", I'll remind them of Brandon Browner, Jason David, Stanley Jean-Baptiste and Patrick Robinson, to name a few. They are not immune to badly misjudging cornerbacks.

If they get him, I won't be real excited, but I'll obviously be wishing him the best.

burningmetal 03-15-2017 02:13 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 (Post 740745)
In New Orleans wide receivers grow on trees.

Cornerbacks on the other hand die on the vine.

If Malcolm Butler is half as good in Nola as he was in NE we have a franchise CB
So Butler won't "die" on the vine? This isn't New England. That's just the concern in question, along with the fact that people are calling him a franchise corner after two years of starting in a zone scheme. Even Darrelle Revis' play dropped dramatically after leaving them. Everybody thought he had gotten "it" back, but after he left it seems like maybe not.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that's fine if they wanna get pumped about Butler. I don't think the questions are at all without merit, however.

ScottF 03-15-2017 06:34 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 740774)
Scott F

"it doesn't, because that's not how it works. Look at Lee's post.
We get a deal with him in principle, and then call NE and work the trade (That second part is probably already done). He signs the 3.9 tender with them, gets traded to us, and then signs his new deal.
Zero percent chance we are giving up #11 for him in any scenario"


Once again, what makes you think the Patriots are going to trade him on OUR terms? What I'm talking about is if the Saints sign him to an offer sheet, and the Patriots don't match. That would, in fact, mean that they automatically lose their 11th pick. You're saying you think he'll be traded. Fine. That's your opinion, and perhaps you're right, which is something I already said to Lee about his post.

But IF the Pats trade him to us, what makes anyone believe we'll get the better end of that deal? They will at the very least ask for the #32 pick, and possibly a late round pick thrown in, after seeing how the Cooks trade went down.

The worst thing, in my opinion, is that we don't need Butler. And I don't believe he is what the Saints think he is. And before someone comes in and says the ole one liner of "the Saints know better than you do", I'll remind them of Brandon Browner, Jason David, Stanley Jean-Baptiste and Patrick Robinson, to name a few. They are not immune to badly misjudging cornerbacks.

If they get him, I won't be real excited, but I'll obviously be wishing him the best.
I of course have no way of knowing if #32 is in play. That would basically be a Cooks for Butler trade, plus we move up 11 spots with the 4th for 3rd swap. I do know that Loomis/SP aren't giving up the 11, because they would have already signed the offer sheet if that was the case.

The Texans have offered the 57 pick, but won't give up the 25 pick. I would prefer we part with pick 43, but it might come down to the 32 and maybe getting a 7th back.

Here's a good article on his contract "demands":
New England Patriots RFA Malcolm Butler to meet with New Orleans Saints
Butler's agent, Derek Simpson, said last week that reports of Butler asking for "the moon" in his next contract were "completely false" as the "Patriots haven't approached Malcolm about his contract since last year

Texans:
http://www.battleredblog.com/2017/3/...malcolm-butler

neugey 03-15-2017 06:50 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
It worries me we didn't take longer to work on actually trading Cooks for Butler with offsetting picks or other players. What was the urgency to move Cooks so soon? Draft isn't until late April.

I fear that a few years down the road, we would have wished that we would have simply kept Cooks for 1 more year then let him walk in FA and get the comp picks. Plenty of incentive for Cooks to play well for us in his final contract year so he could get big money elsewhere. Let FA work for us and help us control costs instead of trying to fight it.

lee909 03-15-2017 06:51 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Paying Cooks over 700k in a roster bonus

spkb25 03-15-2017 06:52 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottF (Post 740728)
it doesn't, because that's not how it works. Look at Lee's post.
We get a deal with him in principle, and then call NE and work the trade (That second part is probably already done). He signs the 3.9 tender with them, gets traded to us, and then signs his new deal.
Zero percent chance we are giving up #11 for him in any scenario
That's my guess to Scott. We will probably give 32 or a second. My guess would be say exactly what you said- we work a deal, he signs his tender, e trade for him. I thought he turned down 14m per year from NE... IDK how much he is worth but he is getting near Drew numbers

spkb25 03-15-2017 06:56 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 740780)
It worries me we didn't take longer to work on actually trading Cooks for Butler with offsetting picks or other players. What was the urgency to move Cooks so soon? Draft isn't until late April.

I fear that a few years down the road, we would have wished that we would have simply kept Cooks for 1 more year then let him walk in FA and get the comp picks. Plenty of incentive for Cooks to play well for us in his final contract year so he could get big money elsewhere. Let FA work for us and help us control costs instead of trying to fight it.
His pending like 600K roster bonus, I think

ScottF 03-15-2017 07:05 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neugey (Post 740780)
It worries me we didn't take longer to work on actually trading Cooks for Butler with offsetting picks or other players. What was the urgency to move Cooks so soon? Draft isn't until late April.

I fear that a few years down the road, we would have wished that we would have simply kept Cooks for 1 more year then let him walk in FA and get the comp picks. Plenty of incentive for Cooks to play well for us in his final contract year so he could get big money elsewhere. Let FA work for us and help us control costs instead of trying to fight it.
we got the 32nd and a nominal 11 spot move from 4th to 3rd

the best comp pick is #97
really no comparison

Seer1 03-15-2017 07:29 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 740712)
He wasn't FORCED to fire anyone. Payton runs the show. Benson wouldn't order him to fire anyone. Loomis sure wouldn't. He fired them because they weren't doing their jobs adequately. It's as simple as that. Payton is FAR from stupid. He clearly knew changes were needed in those areas. Hell, the dimwits around here could see that, you know Payton had to have been able to see the same. We all know your bias against Payton. It borders on illogical hatred. :rolleyes:
I'm thinking he finally came to the realization that if we was to get any better than 7-9 that those guys had to go. I think he FORCED himself to do that. Hell,somedays I put on my tinfoil hat and believe he lurks on this site and me calling them his sister wives was finally what put him over the edge! :D

AsylumGuido 03-15-2017 08:07 AM
Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 740773)
That is taking the assumption that the Patriots would be willing to trade him rather than make the Saints, or some other team, sign him and give up their first round pick. Even if they do trade him to us, what makes you think they wouldn't ask for one of our first rounders?
Simple, don't do the deal. This time the Saints have the leverage. It's Butler that wants out and the Patriots have to give or the Saints simply move on. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already agreed upon when making the Cooks deal. The Saints pony up first and the Patriots return the favor. Don't forget, Belichick and Payton are good friends and they are the ones pulling the triggers, not Loomis.


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