Should Brees sit out training camp?

WillSaints81 · 07-18-2017, 03:46 PM

This imo is one of the problems. Brees does not play enough in preseason as it is and as a result if the backup QBs are not playing well, we will not get a good estimate of the defense if they are being put back on the field constantly.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-18-2017, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

This imo is one of the problems. Brees does not play enough in preseason as it is and as a result if the backup QBs are not playing well, we will not get a good estimate of the defense if they are being put back on the field constantly.

Will, as usual everything is a problem. In fact your point is moot on several fronts:

1. Preseason is a waste of time. Everyone runs vanilla schemes and starters generally only play enough to break a sweat.

2. By the time teams get to the backup QBs, both teams have gone to the second string on both sides of the ball. So the guys out there on defense often will not be the guys playing in September when the flack starts flying.

3. The purpose of preseason is to evaluate talent under real time conditions. Established starters are generally not the focus of that evaluation process.

The Saints defense needs to do the two of three things they always needed to do. Keep defensive scoring in the low 20's, get off the field, stay healthy, and create turnovers. Nothing that happens in preseason is really going to predict any of those items other than if players play more in the preseason, the more likely they are to be injured in the process.

Will the defense actually be better? I'm unsure. Will we know one way or another in the preseason? No way in hell.

SFIAH

AsylumGuido · 07-18-2017, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Will the defense actually be better? I'm unsure. Will we know one way or another in the preseason? No way in hell.

SFIAH

^^^^^
This!

Training camp will not tell us anything about what we will see from the defense come the regular season. Although, we hear it every year ... I am preparing myself for the declarations of doom and gloom if the defense gives up 30 points in the second preseason game.

WillSaints81 · 07-18-2017, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Will, as usual everything is a problem. In fact your point is moot on several fronts:

1. Preseason is a waste of time. Everyone runs vanilla schemes and starters generally only play enough to break a sweat.

2. By the time teams get to the backup QBs, both teams have gone to the second string on both sides of the ball. So the guys out there on defense often will not be the guys playing in September when the flack starts flying.

3. The purpose of preseason is to evaluate talent under real time conditions. Established starters are generally not the focus of that evaluation process.

The Saints defense needs to do the two of three things they always needed to do. Keep defensive scoring in the low 20's, get off the field, stay healthy, and create turnovers. Nothing that happens in preseason is really going to predict any of those items other than if players play more in the preseason, the more likely they are to be injured in the process.

Will the defense actually be better? I'm unsure. Will we know one way or another in the preseason? No way in hell.

SFIAH

You think I don't know teams run vanilla schemes in pre-season? It's the posters here bringing up the 2009 preseason to measure up against what this preseason will have. Still, a defense that keeps being put back on the field in one half is still gonna be worn down.

AsylumGuido · 07-18-2017, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

You think I don't know teams run vanilla schemes in pre-season? It's the posters here bringing up the 2009 preseason to measure up against what this preseason will have. Still, a defense that keeps being put back on the field in one half is still gonna be worn down.

And that cannot be determined in the preseason. That is the point that was made.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-18-2017, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

You think I don't know teams run vanilla schemes in pre-season? It's the posters here bringing up the 2009 preseason to measure up against what this preseason will have.

The preseason tells you nothing unless you are watching the ones vs. ones after the first preseason game. Usually the 1st half or so of the third game gives the best glimpse into what will happen at the start of the regular season.

Still, a defense that keeps being put back on the field in one half is still gonna be worn down.

Still doesn't matter in the preseason. It's likely that less than 53 guys who are currently on the roster are going to be on the roster come the start of the first game. While it's possible to evaluate single players on single plays in the preseason, getting an overall evaluation of how the defense is going to play in the regular season is pretty much laughable. And even more so with all of the new and returning from injury players that are on the defense.

The best time to evaluate everything is sometime after the first quarter of the season. But with the brutal schedule with 3 road games, a home game against the Patriots, and a trip to London out the gate, it may be the end of October before we really know what the 2017 Saints squad is really going to be.

It may be 2009 all over again. The defense may be similar to the 2013 edition that came out of nowhere. Or it can be the historically bad trainwrecks we've seen the last 3 years. Impossible to tell now, or in the preseason, or even by October 1st (unless of course the Saints are 5-0 and the defense is leading the league in points allowed).

My advice is to stop worrying about it. With 87 linebackers and another 52 defensive backs, it's going to be difficult to evaluate the defense at all until the cutdown to 53.

Remember that last year there were very few starting defensive players at the end of the season that were starting at the beginning of the season.

You'd be wise to just accept that you don't know what's going to happen and that you have no control over the outcome. It's good for the blood pressure.

SFIAH

spkb25 · 07-18-2017, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Will, as usual everything is a problem. In fact your point is moot on several fronts:

1. Preseason is a waste of time. Everyone runs vanilla schemes and starters generally only play enough to break a sweat.

2. By the time teams get to the backup QBs, both teams have gone to the second string on both sides of the ball. So the guys out there on defense often will not be the guys playing in September when the flack starts flying.

3. The purpose of preseason is to evaluate talent under real time conditions. Established starters are generally not the focus of that evaluation process.

The Saints defense needs to do the two of three things they always needed to do. Keep defensive scoring in the low 20's, get off the field, stay healthy, and create turnovers. Nothing that happens in preseason is really going to predict any of those items other than if players play more in the preseason, the more likely they are to be injured in the process.

Will the defense actually be better? I'm unsure. Will we know one way or another in the preseason? No way in hell.

SFIAH

we need pressure man, bring pressure and win up front. Go back to 13 and look how much pressure just our dline brought

07-18-2017, 03:46 PM	#1
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,283	Re: Should Brees sit out training camp? This imo is one of the problems. Brees does not play enough in preseason as it is and as a result if the backup QBs are not playing well, we will not get a good estimate of the defense if they are being put back on the field constantly.

07-18-2017, 04:43 PM	#2
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: Should Brees sit out training camp? Originally Posted by WillSaints81 This imo is one of the problems. Brees does not play enough in preseason as it is and as a result if the backup QBs are not playing well, we will not get a good estimate of the defense if they are being put back on the field constantly. Will, as usual everything is a problem. In fact your point is moot on several fronts: 1. Preseason is a waste of time. Everyone runs vanilla schemes and starters generally only play enough to break a sweat. 2. By the time teams get to the backup QBs, both teams have gone to the second string on both sides of the ball. So the guys out there on defense often will not be the guys playing in September when the flack starts flying. 3. The purpose of preseason is to evaluate talent under real time conditions. Established starters are generally not the focus of that evaluation process. The Saints defense needs to do the two of three things they always needed to do. Keep defensive scoring in the low 20's, get off the field, stay healthy, and create turnovers. Nothing that happens in preseason is really going to predict any of those items other than if players play more in the preseason, the more likely they are to be injured in the process. Will the defense actually be better? I'm unsure. Will we know one way or another in the preseason? No way in hell. SFIAH AsylumGuido likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

07-18-2017, 04:59 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Should Brees sit out training camp? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Will the defense actually be better? I'm unsure. Will we know one way or another in the preseason? No way in hell. SFIAH ^^^^^ This! Training camp will not tell us anything about what we will see from the defense come the regular season. Although, we hear it every year ... I am preparing myself for the declarations of doom and gloom if the defense gives up 30 points in the second preseason game.

07-18-2017, 05:08 PM	#4
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,283	Re: Should Brees sit out training camp? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Will, as usual everything is a problem. In fact your point is moot on several fronts: 1. Preseason is a waste of time. Everyone runs vanilla schemes and starters generally only play enough to break a sweat. 2. By the time teams get to the backup QBs, both teams have gone to the second string on both sides of the ball. So the guys out there on defense often will not be the guys playing in September when the flack starts flying. 3. The purpose of preseason is to evaluate talent under real time conditions. Established starters are generally not the focus of that evaluation process. The Saints defense needs to do the two of three things they always needed to do. Keep defensive scoring in the low 20's, get off the field, stay healthy, and create turnovers. Nothing that happens in preseason is really going to predict any of those items other than if players play more in the preseason, the more likely they are to be injured in the process. Will the defense actually be better? I'm unsure. Will we know one way or another in the preseason? No way in hell. SFIAH You think I don't know teams run vanilla schemes in pre-season? It's the posters here bringing up the 2009 preseason to measure up against what this preseason will have. Still, a defense that keeps being put back on the field in one half is still gonna be worn down.

07-18-2017, 05:42 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Should Brees sit out training camp? Originally Posted by WillSaints81 You think I don't know teams run vanilla schemes in pre-season? It's the posters here bringing up the 2009 preseason to measure up against what this preseason will have. Still, a defense that keeps being put back on the field in one half is still gonna be worn down. And that cannot be determined in the preseason. That is the point that was made.

07-18-2017, 07:17 PM	#6
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: Should Brees sit out training camp? Originally Posted by WillSaints81 You think I don't know teams run vanilla schemes in pre-season? It's the posters here bringing up the 2009 preseason to measure up against what this preseason will have. The preseason tells you nothing unless you are watching the ones vs. ones after the first preseason game. Usually the 1st half or so of the third game gives the best glimpse into what will happen at the start of the regular season. Still, a defense that keeps being put back on the field in one half is still gonna be worn down. Still doesn't matter in the preseason. It's likely that less than 53 guys who are currently on the roster are going to be on the roster come the start of the first game. While it's possible to evaluate single players on single plays in the preseason, getting an overall evaluation of how the defense is going to play in the regular season is pretty much laughable. And even more so with all of the new and returning from injury players that are on the defense. The best time to evaluate everything is sometime after the first quarter of the season. But with the brutal schedule with 3 road games, a home game against the Patriots, and a trip to London out the gate, it may be the end of October before we really know what the 2017 Saints squad is really going to be. It may be 2009 all over again. The defense may be similar to the 2013 edition that came out of nowhere. Or it can be the historically bad trainwrecks we've seen the last 3 years. Impossible to tell now, or in the preseason, or even by October 1st (unless of course the Saints are 5-0 and the defense is leading the league in points allowed). My advice is to stop worrying about it. With 87 linebackers and another 52 defensive backs, it's going to be difficult to evaluate the defense at all until the cutdown to 53. Remember that last year there were very few starting defensive players at the end of the season that were starting at the beginning of the season. You'd be wise to just accept that you don't know what's going to happen and that you have no control over the outcome. It's good for the blood pressure. SFIAH AsylumGuido likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

07-18-2017, 07:13 PM	#7
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,144	Re: Should Brees sit out training camp? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Will, as usual everything is a problem. In fact your point is moot on several fronts: 1. Preseason is a waste of time. Everyone runs vanilla schemes and starters generally only play enough to break a sweat. 2. By the time teams get to the backup QBs, both teams have gone to the second string on both sides of the ball. So the guys out there on defense often will not be the guys playing in September when the flack starts flying. 3. The purpose of preseason is to evaluate talent under real time conditions. Established starters are generally not the focus of that evaluation process. The Saints defense needs to do the two of three things they always needed to do. Keep defensive scoring in the low 20's, get off the field, stay healthy, and create turnovers. Nothing that happens in preseason is really going to predict any of those items other than if players play more in the preseason, the more likely they are to be injured in the process. Will the defense actually be better? I'm unsure. Will we know one way or another in the preseason? No way in hell. SFIAH we need pressure man, bring pressure and win up front. Go back to 13 and look how much pressure just our dline brought

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