Originally Posted by Supertek (Post 763746)

That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 763720)

On the Vikings first offensive play of the game we only had 10 men on the field and it was Sterling Moore who was supposed to be in there but had a brain fart I guess. Payton benched him the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 763720)

Ok so I'm hearing a rumor about the Sterling Moore/De'Vante Harris situation last night. On the Vikings first offensive play of the game we only had 10 men on the field and it was Sterling Moore who was supposed to be in there but had a brain fart I guess. Payton benched him the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by NonieT (Post 763751)

That doesn't explain why PJ was put on the inside.

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 763755)

I say good. Defense got cocky because they had such a great preseason compared to normal and they got knocked down a notch. Now it's time to put the big boy pants back on and pick themselves up.
They did hit ferociously when they first hit the field. Loved that hit Lattimore put on their guy

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 763720)

Ok so I'm hearing a rumor about the Sterling Moore/De'Vante Harris situation last night. On the Vikings first offensive play of the game we only had 10 men on the field and it was Sterling Moore who was supposed to be in there but had a brain fart I guess. Payton benched him the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by K Major (Post 763749)

Wow.

I could see benching him for a quarter but for the entire game? Even after Harris was torched a second time? This game was too important to bench a veteran contributor all game just to make a point.

Just wow.

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 763763)

Hoping this helps...

https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/s...36558076149760

Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 763726)

I understand and respect your optimism and agree Minny has one of the top defenses and realize it was going to be a hard game for anyone to win going against them in their new stadium.
But do you really HAVE to sift through pages and pages of negative posts? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore them and move along?

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 763763)

Hoping this helps...

https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/s...36558076149760

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 763774)

I don't think sharing your honest opinion is negative. In sports people are very honest. Sports are not like the corporate or academic world. They don't really offer the poop sandwich. You know where you put the poop in the middle and the fluff is on top and bottom to soften the blow that you're eating a poop sandwich. Sports are a tough business. People on this board being honest is just that. Calling it negative isn't really accurate. Some people think one thing and other people think something else. The one thing we have in common is our love for the team.

That's my opinion

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 763776)

Kenny V had an awful game, it's great he's trying to make it work but he's not exactly good role model for these young guys.

He got caught looking in the backfield on the wide open Diggs TD and completely let him run unaccounted for into the end zone.

He gave TE Rudolph a ton of cushion and reacted late for a TD.

In the first quarter, he could have stopped a Dalvin Cook run for no gain by forcing him out of bounds, yet he jumped over a falling O lineman and Cook ran straight past him for a 13 yard gain.

Remember, at one time we had a chance to get Wade Phillips, Jim Schwartz or Romeo Crennel

We chose Rob Ryan, Payton then hired DA because he felt bad for him, then gave the reigns to his buddy who never disagrees with him.

Payton's time to go.

Originally Posted by Beastmode (Post 763784)

What happened to the Saint fan that got lots of playoff appearances, a SB victory after 30 plus years of shame? Oh, they want to fire the coach that accomplished all of it.

Love this stuff because all it take is one shellacking of the Pats and Payton goes from unformed pewter to a refined golden god in less than 7 days.

Originally Posted by neugey (Post 763802)

I can't let this go and this is going to get long. Guido don't miss your flight to Vegas while reading this LOL.

If you're a professional sports coach and your actions demonstrate you are careless enough to run a future hall-of-fame player into the ground, it's your time to go. That is why this is my last straw with Payton. When former Lakers coach D'Antoni allowed Kobe to play 45+ minutes night after night after night and Kobe ended up blowing his Achilles, I held D'Antoni solely responsible for being asleep at the wheel and signing off on Kobe's insane usage. Payton's mistake is on par with that gaffe.

I talked to my step-brother, a huge Vikings fan, about AP joining the Saints a few months ago. He said AP had a great chance to succeed in New Orleans because AP has never played with a QB as good as Brees, never played in a more powerful passing game. On paper, with a healthy Brees and receiving core, Peterson would have more consistent running room than he has maybe ever had in his career.

Though AP and the Saints were an odd fit, this was the logical consensus just about everyone - my family, my father, Saints fans, Vikings fans, talking heads, sportswriters - came to. You had to see there was some upside to having a balanced attack and allow the aging stars Brees and AP the chance to take the pressure off each other. Otherwise, why would Saints even entertain signing AP? Brees' passing ability would keep defenders from loading the box and keying on the run. Adrian's presence would slow down the pass rush as they would often have to worry about giving AP a seam and a head of steam running into open field.

Then, everyone in the Saints org was raving about AP's ability in the offseason. Unlike the Vikings, the Saints have 2 quality backs in Ingram and Kamara to spell AP and avoid tiring him out, which was sometimes the Vikings' pitfall. Payton's off-season lip service to the running game finally seemed like it could be legit, because this time it was backed up by an acquisition that indicated they were more serious than before. And we had tools at our disposal to rekindle AP's productivity that the Vikings lacked. While AP's health and age were a risk, I saw some upside.

So keeping all of this mind, the usage of AP last night by Payton and Carmichael is completely indefensible. Every single time AP appeared on the field (except for the goalline rollout pass which was both wrong place wrong time and too little too late) he got handed the ball on garden-variety runs. In stark contrast, Ingram and Kamara got to do it all with plenty of playing time on the field - run, catch, block, etc.

The closest thing I can manufacture to an excuse for Payton/Carmichael is that they just got into the moment and started calling plays, and it happened to turn out that way that AP was running all the time. But I just can't buy that. Not when 1) you've had eons to prepare for this single opening game, 2) AP had additional knowledge and fire in playing his old team and 3) Kamara and Ingram's usage stood in stark contrast to AP's.

You would have to be hard pressed to find any high school or college coach in the entire country, regardless of who their QB or other RB's were, that would even *consider* using AP in the manner that unfolded Monday night. And yet, here we are.

Payton/Carmichael can be erratic and predictable calling the offense. No one's going to always agree with the play calls which sometimes work and backfire, I get that. Football is game of playcall vs playcall and the conjecture and 20/20 hindsight is part of the sport. But the more serious problem is that the Saints scheme has gotten so rote, that defenses can sometime spot a specific personnel and formation on the field and identify with an incredibly high degree of accuracy where the ball is going. These kinds of plays are our drive-killers. They runs counter to basic football strategy, which is to do a variety of things out of similar looks. Most any high school football coach understands and uses this concept. This concept was an important element of football before the forward pass even existed, for cripes sake! But Payton doesn't seem like he gets it or wants to get it, frankly. It's like he's coaching a different sport.

So when you consider the transparent playcalling gaffes - and there were multiple in this game as well - AP's misuse, to me, is the final straw. The mistakes go together such that it seems at times Payton really doesn't care what he is telegraphing - and those consequences are massive.

A few hands of poker where you put your cards face up on the table is likely to ruin what could have otherwise been a successful night. So, as far as I am concerned, Payton can go play poker on someone else's dime.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 763782)

Please, let's not go through this again. We're on the same team. To me it is negative. Accept that. To you it isn't. I accept that. Expecting another 7-9 after one game is negative in my mind. Not so in yours. No problem.

And I prefer fried gator poboys to poop sandwiches.

:bng:

Originally Posted by neugey (Post 763802)

I can't let this go and this is going to get long. Guido don't miss your flight to Vegas while reading this LOL.

If you're a professional sports coach and your actions demonstrate you are careless enough to run a future hall-of-fame player into the ground, it's your time to go. That is why this is my last straw with Payton. When former Lakers coach D'Antoni allowed Kobe to play 45+ minutes night after night after night and Kobe ended up blowing his Achilles, I held D'Antoni solely responsible for being asleep at the wheel and signing off on Kobe's insane usage. Payton's mistake is on par with that gaffe.

I talked to my step-brother, a huge Vikings fan, about AP joining the Saints a few months ago. He said AP had a great chance to succeed in New Orleans because AP has never played with a QB as good as Brees, never played in a more powerful passing game. On paper, with a healthy Brees and receiving core, Peterson would have more consistent running room than he has maybe ever had in his career.

Though AP and the Saints were an odd fit, this was the logical consensus just about everyone - my family, my father, Saints fans, Vikings fans, talking heads, sportswriters - came to. You had to see there was some upside to having a balanced attack and allow the aging stars Brees and AP the chance to take the pressure off each other. Otherwise, why would Saints even entertain signing AP? Brees' passing ability would keep defenders from loading the box and keying on the run. Adrian's presence would slow down the pass rush as they would often have to worry about giving AP a seam and a head of steam running into open field.

Then, everyone in the Saints org was raving about AP's ability in the offseason. Unlike the Vikings, the Saints have 2 quality backs in Ingram and Kamara to spell AP and avoid tiring him out, which was sometimes the Vikings' pitfall. Payton's off-season lip service to the running game finally seemed like it could be legit, because this time it was backed up by an acquisition that indicated they were more serious than before. And we had tools at our disposal to rekindle AP's productivity that the Vikings lacked. While AP's health and age were a risk, I saw some upside.

So keeping all of this mind, the usage of AP last night by Payton and Carmichael is completely indefensible. Every single time AP appeared on the field (except for the goalline rollout pass which was both wrong place wrong time and too little too late) he got handed the ball on garden-variety runs. In stark contrast, Ingram and Kamara got to do it all with plenty of playing time on the field - run, catch, block, etc.

The closest thing I can manufacture to an excuse for Payton/Carmichael is that they just got into the moment and started calling plays, and it happened to turn out that way that AP was running all the time. But I just can't buy that. Not when 1) you've had eons to prepare for this single opening game, 2) AP had additional knowledge and fire in playing his old team and 3) Kamara and Ingram's usage stood in stark contrast to AP's.

You would have to be hard pressed to find any high school or college coach in the entire country, regardless of who their QB or other RB's were, that would even *consider* using AP in the manner that unfolded Monday night. And yet, here we are.

Payton/Carmichael can be erratic and predictable calling the offense. No one's going to always agree with the play calls which sometimes work and backfire, I get that. Football is game of playcall vs playcall and the conjecture and 20/20 hindsight is part of the sport. But the more serious problem is that the Saints scheme has gotten so rote, that defenses can sometime spot a specific personnel and formation on the field and identify with an incredibly high degree of accuracy where the ball is going. These kinds of plays are our drive-killers. They run counter to basic football strategy, which is to do a variety of things out of similar looks. Most any high school football coach understands and uses this concept. This concept was an important element of football before the forward pass even existed, for cripes sake! But Payton doesn't seem like he gets it or wants to get it, frankly. It's like he's coaching a different sport.

So when you consider the transparent playcalling gaffes - and there were multiple in this game as well - AP's misuse, to me, is the final straw. The mistakes go together such that it seems at times Payton really doesn't care what he is telegraphing - and those consequences are massive.

A few hands of poker where you put your cards face up on the table is likely to ruin what could have otherwise been a successful night. So, as far as I am concerned, Payton can go play poker on someone else's dime.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 763809)

I feel you bro. Remember how we originally used Ingram? He never did anything but run and we wondered why he always had 2 yard gains. Everyone knew what he was in for.

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 763814)

No holes = no run game

Not that difficult to understand

Originally Posted by saintfan (Post 763829)

Right. We don't run block well. I don't remember when we did.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 763805)

Well I was referencing Dude since he said do you really need to read all the negative posts. Not you. But an honest opinion is neither negative or positive. It just is an opinion. No adjective needed.

Here is good article for you to read and anyone on the board. It puts to rest the idea that this game sits inside some vacuum. It is just another piece of data. I have no idea what to expect from this team, but we don't look much different. And until they prove to me otherwise we are 0-1 and look poor in many aspects of football right now. We look like the same bad team we have been. I hope we aren't. I hope we run off 3 or 4 straight wins. All I want to do is get back to winning. It has been far too long and I am tired of watching this garbage Sean puts on TV every Sunday

Wasn't this season supposed to be different for the Saints? | NOLA.com

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 (Post 763843)

And that equaled 7 wins, who cares what the line was ranked last year

Originally Posted by RailBoss (Post 763848)

This excerpt pretty much summed it up "Rudderless Group"

The Saints' offense started with an efficient, effective balanced attack against a stout Vikings defense. It transformed into a rudderless group struggling to move the football once right tackle Zach Strief exited with a knee injury.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 763866)

Yep and you know what extremely frustrating? Watching SP not adjust to the fact that we did not have the blocking for plays that take time to develop down the field and Brees kept getting 0 time. You could tell the Vikings thought we were going to bring heat and that was why they only threw quick passes to start the game. Then they switched it up and started going down the field.

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 763868)

I could tell our D wasn't the same as preseason right from the very start, when they got beat on 3rd down twice by the same exact play, a drag route.
Right before the snap, the entire LB and DB group were just pointing and shouting to each other like they didn't know their assignments.

But our "number 1 offense" refused to throw to anyone that wasn't a RB. We needed to take shots downfield, yet Payton force fed the ball to Kamara and AP.

Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 763869)

No slants to MT. I counted one. One of the worst plays I saw was the swing pass to kamara...I mean I just looked like it was in slow mo wondering when are we going to throw him the ball.

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 763568)

[B]... the running game not working is simply not true...

The Saints were leading the game 6-3 with a run-pass ratio of 16 run plays to 17 (14) pass plays; three of the pass plays were negated by penalty (hence the 17 (14) pass plays), two by the Vikings (T. Johnson - PF/Roughing Passer, E. Griffin - Offsides) and one by Saints (A. Peat - Holding)...

Just because Ingram, Peterson, or Kamara tear off a run of 50 yds doesn't mean the run game wasn't successful...

Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 763901)

I don't understand why our offense didn't come out of the gates aggressive, we just passed every ball to the flats and expected to get a first down. Call some shots down the field man!!