Danno

He also said
\"Annually, reaches for a defensive lineman in the draft\" WRONG

\"Stumbles out of the gate\" WRONG

\"The Saints’ primary needs are all on the defensive side of the ball\" WRONG

\"But only Charles Grant of that group (which also includes Will Smith and Jonathan Sullivan) has cracked the starting lineup\" WRONG

\"On offense, Joe Horn is the best player\" WRONG (but debateable)

\"will probably reach for player in the first-round\" so far ONCE in 4 years.

\"Nothing else has changed about the Saints the last four years\" EXCEPT the roster

\"Carolina COULD have as many as seven starters this season from its top eight picks the last four drafts\" AND COULD have as few as 3

\"New Orleans, the number COULD be as low as two – McAllister in 2001 and Grant in 2002\" AND COULD have 10

\"high picks – like Sedrick Hodge\" WRONG

\"Given the draft history, it’s surprising that New Orleans has been able to hang around the .500 mark for four seasons\" Given the draft history, I\'m surprised we haven\'t done much better than .500 for four seasons.

I think a better way to state this would have been \"Given their coaching staff, it\'s no surprise this team has finished .500 for four seasons\".

[Edited on 6/4/2005 by Danno]

saintswhodi

But we weren\'t talking about all that. We were talking about taking factual statements he did make and drawing the premisse of blowing the team up as he did. Now you are again disecting the rest of it when we agreed some of what was said is rubbish. But let\'s look.

Annually reaches ofr a d-lineman. You have to define what he means by reach. If he means simple takes one, he is pretty much right. If he means gets a palyer before their grade, he is wrong, except for Sully.

Stumbles out of the gate. Last year we were 4-8 after 12 games, we were 2-2 to start the season against subpar talent, I would call that stumbling out the gate.

Primary needs on defensive side of the ball. What\'s wrong about that? Aren\'t we all screaming for a LB and SS early int he draft? Seems right to me.

Only Charles Grant..etc. Well, Will didn;t start until Howard got hurt and Sullivan barely even played last year although healthy so I wouldn\'t call that wrong either. Maybe overstating.

Sedrick Hodge was a first day pick? 3rd round? That\'s high in my book. Not first round high, but first day picks who are useless is a waste IMO.

l

[Edited on 6/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

LordOfEntropy

Yes, you\'ve got to admit, the article posted... dead wrong... information, even if the overall theme of the article was valid.

saintswhodi

Never said it didn\'t, and I already highlighted the part I identified with. More than once.

Danno

We all know what REACH means. I also know what annually means. Therfore my disagreement with \"Annually Reaching\"

. He said annually stumbles out of the gate. I remember two years we started strong and petered out in December.

he said they were ALL on the defensive side. Maybe I am nitpicking with that one though. MOST are on the D, in fact I\'d be happy if every pick was D

OK, I\'ll give you that one. But I\'d bet we\'re probably on par with most teams\' 3rd round picks still playing in this league.

saintswhodi

Well, in 2003 we started 1-3. We were 3-5 in out first 8. in 2002 we were 3-1 though. So if annually means the last two years, he is right, but if he is going back further, which from reading that I don\'t know if he is or isn\'t, he is wrong. But obviously outside of the opening paragraph or two the guy greatly overexaggerates the situation.

Agreed on everything else.

LKelley67

again, i am not into arguing about what somebody else said and the details of their analysis. the summation that i already recopied once is what caught my attention, that i agree with, and think many cannot see: VERY mediocre for quite a run now, mediocre from underachievers not overachievers, talent that has not been translated to success, performance that can be charaterized as erratic at best. i hope my instincts of an overhaul needed are wrong and they make a superbowl run. if they do not, i hope benson and the fans will be as outraged over another 8-8 as much as a 3-13.

JKool

I\'ve just read through all of these posts, and here is my assessment:

A bunch of you (looks like Whodi, LK, and GT) agree with this guy\'s CONCLUSION: that the Saints are most in need of \"blowing the team up and start over.\"

Danno\'s view appears to be this: the argument for that conclusion is based almost entirely on premises that are false.

There is some disagreement about a couple of the premises, and some disagreement about what a \"major\" change is.

Here is my question: what does \"blow the team up and start over\" mean? Until there is an answer to this question, I\'m not sure how to even assess his arguments for that (though I agree with Danno that most of the premises are plain false).

"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

LKelley67

here\'s one fantasy overhaul i shared kool. except that now you can get sharper for free. LOL

http://www.blackandgold.net/site/mod...hread&tid=8875

TRADE
Darren Howard to Dallas for #42 2nd Rd and 2006 2nd Round
sounds like something both could accept
TRADE
Aaron Brooks to San Francisco for #33 2nd Rd and Rattay QB
McCarthy gets his boy, SF can draft Braylon Edwards
TRADE
#16 1st Rd and #82 3rd Rd to Philadelphia for #31 1st Rd and #35 2nd Rd
Philly has way too many draft picks for a conference champ
TRADE
2006 2nd Rd from Dallas to Houston for LB Jamie Sharper
this sounds a like more than they might be asking for him
DRAFT
#31 (Phil) Kevin Burnett LB
#33 (SF) Luis Castillo DT
#35 (Phil) Corey Webster CB
#40 Adam Terry OT
#42 (Dal) Andrew Walter QB

*Sharper pushes Watson outside or replaces Allen
*Burnett pushes Bockwoldt back on depth chart
*Castillo plugs the hole Sullivan didn\'t
*Webster competes against Fakhir. Loser forms great nickel/dime duo with Craft
*Terry either allows Mayberry to guard or competes with Stinchcomb for \'06 starting job
* Rattay starts until Walter is ready

ALTERNATIVE DRAFT PICKS
These could just as well be available in the #31-42 range:
LB
Blackstock, Thurman, Ruud
DT
Mosley, Patterson
DB
Browner, McFadden, Shazor, Bullocks, Nicholson
OT
Britt, Munoz, Johnson (from G)
QB
Campbell, Frye

TayTay

By \"blow up the team ansd start over\"
Do you mean get rid of our stars and find new ones
or
begin to place better players around our stars.

The way you say it makes me think you want to dump Deuce, Joe, Bentley, Young, Mackenzie, Holland, and now Mayberry, and Smith.

The last thing we need to do is start over. How do you propose we replace the people previously mentioned. If we tried to start over, their would be a chain reaction of terrible evets.
First, we trade all superstar players
Then, we are slappesd with major cap-penalties
Then, We have a terrible 2006 year
Then, no FA wants to come to a crappy team unless we dish out the dough
Then, we can\'t afford more than one star at most b/c of our cap penalties
Finally, the Saints have a span of ten years or so that are comparable to the Bengals before the 2003 season. i.e. 3-13





However, if you want to blow up a part of this team, you can have the FO

[Edited on 6/4/2005 by TayTay]

[Edited on 6/4/2005 by TayTay]

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