Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme

GoldenTomb · 04-07-2005, 12:55 PM

Great response thread...shows that there is no reason in comparing QBs with no common circumstances and situations.

Why don\'t we just wait and see if Brooks will do HIS job and be the great QB he says he is. With him being a 5th year starter now, I guess that\'s enough time for things to gel, right? :casstet:

xan · 04-07-2005, 01:06 PM

The laws of physics dictate that the more things stay the same, the more things stay the same. Without any kind of nukular device stuffed in Brooks\' arse, nothing will change for the offense. He\'s not getting any smarter, he\'s not getting any faster, he\'s not getting any competition.

What characteristics does one point to from the last several years that would indicate that Brooks is improving?

LKelley67 · 04-07-2005, 01:11 PM

progress? the fumble drills in practice have been quite effective. he is recovering a lot more of them.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-07-2005, 01:46 PM

Whodat.

Why, why, WHY?! are you torturing us?

Couldn\'t you stir up some other hornet\'s nest?

Please?!

BTW what are the defensive ranks of the teams in question in the years in question?

SFIAH

WhoDat · 04-07-2005, 03:23 PM

Jake didn\'t show me anything that\'d make me think he\'s capable of leading a team to the playoffs.

I have to disagree with that statement wholeheartedly, not that it\'s a surprise to anyone. I\'m not suggesting that Delhomme, certainly not at this point in his career, is anything of a game-breaker. Yes, he will need a good running game and defense to make it back to a SB. However, he is fulfilling the role that the Panthers\' ask him to, exactly how they ask.

Most people say that if the defense were just average then AB would be good enough, right? What happened two years ago when the defense finished 18th and Deuce was 1st in the NFC in rushing most of the year? Oh, I remember. AB led the league in fumbles lost. That\'s right.

Let\'s set aside the fact that Delhomme is fiery and more likeable, that he is the underdog scratching and clawing and giving it everything he\'s got just to be in the league, let alone start - as compared to an extremely gifted QB who seems content to be one of the most inconsistent QBs in the league so long as people (e.g. HIM) call him great. Put that aside for a second.

Want to know the difference?

Jake Delhomme\'s numbers from his first year as a starter to his second:
His completion percentage was essentially the same and his Yards, YPA, TD:INT ratio, big plays, and QB rating all improved drastically. Just so there\'s no questions:

Year, Yards, YPA, TD:INT, 20+, QB RAting
2003, 3219, 7.17, 19:16, 46, 80.6
2004, 3886, 7.29, 29:15, 60, 87.3

You know what that is? It\'s IMPROVEMENT - despite a 4th string RB, a worse and more injury battered o-line, a receving corp no more talented in \'04 than the Saints\', and a team that started 1-7.

Compare that to AB\'s first to years.

Year, Yards, YPA, TD:INT, 20+, QB RAting
2001, 3832, 6.87, 26:22, 55, 76.4
2002, 3572, 6.77, 27:15, 47, 80.1

Bottom line: AB regressed in his second year in as many categories as he improved. Yards: down. YPA: down. Big plays: down. But hey, let\'s look at where AB is FIVE YEARS after taking the starting role.

2004, 3810, 7.03, 21:16, 57, 79.5

Where is he now? About where he STARTED. NO PROGRESS.

But hey just consider.

Delhomme\'s total yards in 2004 (his second year): More than AB EVER
Delhomme\'s YPA in 2004: Better than AB EVER
Delhomme\'s TD:INT ration in 2004 (nearly 2:1): Better than AB EVER.
Delhomme\'s total TDs in 2004: More than AB EVER
Delhomme\'s 20+ yard Comps in 2004: More than AB EVER
Delhomme\'s total INTs in 2004: Ties AB\'s second best year EVER.
Delhomme\'s QB rating in 2004: 1.5 points behind AB\'s best EVER.
Delhomme\'s career QB rating: Better than AB\'s
Delhomme\'s winning percentage as a starter: Better than AB\'s.
Delhomme\'s playoff victories: Better than AB\'s.
Delhomme\'s Super Bowl appearances: 17 trillion times more than AB\'s (pick any number you want - anything time zero is zero).

Oh, but AB threw so many passes this year that\'s not fair - AB attempts in 2004, 542. Delhomme - 533. AB threw NINE more passes. Injured or not would you rather be handing off to McAllister or even Stecker... or Nick frickin\' Goings???

The bottom line is that Jake Delhomme is already a better QB right now than AB has EVER been, and we all know that Jake is far less talented. Throw the intangibles back in and who would you prefer? The fiery leader who is overachieving and performing better or the egotistical athlete who has had EVERY opportunity possibly imaginable handed to him on a plate and still can\'t perform to the standards of a guy generally considered to be the new version of Trent Dilfer?

GoldenTomb · 04-07-2005, 03:32 PM

No but see WhoDat...the Defense caused AB\'s numbers to be lower. And besides, being on a great team makes his numbers better. If AB, being a great QB, was on the Panthers, a great team, his numbers would be much better. :icon_eyesroll:

natedogg02 · 04-07-2005, 04:43 PM

Yea some people are just AB haters, I dont see how anyone that\'s been a NO fan since AB has been here, thinks he\'s the reason we\'ve failed. Sure he has his time\'s to but, heck bad things happen when your D sucks so bad, your WR\'s drop 2 or 3 passes a piece per game, there\'s 2 or 3 dt\'s or lb\'s hiting you from all angle\'s, I think most of his mistake\'s are when were getting our butt\'s kicked so bad, and he\'s just trying to make something happen. The Panthers were just ckicking in all 3 phases that year and thats something we fail to do. There\'s always at least 1 phase of our game that fails to show up (usually our D). You see what happened the last 4 games when the D started to make a few plays.

saintfan · 04-07-2005, 05:13 PM

You see what happened the last 4 games when the D started to make a few plays

Well, I see that, but it\'s far too obvious and it doesn\'t fit the agenda.

natedogg02 · 04-07-2005, 05:22 PM

It does fit cause i\'m telling why JD went to SB and why AB hasn\'t yet. and that quote was saying that AB can win just like JD when the whole team shows up.

Danno · 04-07-2005, 05:30 PM

Jake Delhomme was able to lead his team to the super bowl and he won three playoff games.

Aaron Brooks, well ....... let\'s just say he hasn\'t done as well as Delhomme in the playoffs (or getting to them).

Both the Saints and Panthers never had great offensive lines (which we know is the most important thing - just ask Billy what the key to the Saints\' success is this season), but Delhomme still led his team to the promised land. IN HIS FIRST YEAR !!

Why can\'t Brokos do what Delhomme did?

Let me hear it folks?

[Edited on 7/4/2005 by WhoDat]

Using that same linear logic it can also be said that...
Steven Davis is better than Deuce McAllister
and
Muhsin Muhammed is better than Joe Horn

Hmmm, actually now that I think about it, they just might be.

04-07-2005, 12:55 PM	#11
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme Great response thread...shows that there is no reason in comparing QBs with no common circumstances and situations. Why don\'t we just wait and see if Brooks will do HIS job and be the great QB he says he is. With him being a 5th year starter now, I guess that\'s enough time for things to gel, right? :casstet:
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

04-07-2005, 01:06 PM	#12
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,369 Blog Entries: 34	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme The laws of physics dictate that the more things stay the same, the more things stay the same. Without any kind of nukular device stuffed in Brooks\' arse, nothing will change for the offense. He\'s not getting any smarter, he\'s not getting any faster, he\'s not getting any competition. What characteristics does one point to from the last several years that would indicate that Brooks is improving?

04-07-2005, 01:11 PM	#13
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme progress? the fumble drills in practice have been quite effective. he is recovering a lot more of them.

04-07-2005, 01:46 PM	#14
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme Whodat. Why, why, WHY?! are you torturing us? Couldn\'t you stir up some other hornet\'s nest? Please?! BTW what are the defensive ranks of the teams in question in the years in question? SFIAH

04-07-2005, 03:23 PM	#15
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme Jake didn\'t show me anything that\'d make me think he\'s capable of leading a team to the playoffs. I have to disagree with that statement wholeheartedly, not that it\'s a surprise to anyone. I\'m not suggesting that Delhomme, certainly not at this point in his career, is anything of a game-breaker. Yes, he will need a good running game and defense to make it back to a SB. However, he is fulfilling the role that the Panthers\' ask him to, exactly how they ask. Most people say that if the defense were just average then AB would be good enough, right? What happened two years ago when the defense finished 18th and Deuce was 1st in the NFC in rushing most of the year? Oh, I remember. AB led the league in fumbles lost. That\'s right. Let\'s set aside the fact that Delhomme is fiery and more likeable, that he is the underdog scratching and clawing and giving it everything he\'s got just to be in the league, let alone start - as compared to an extremely gifted QB who seems content to be one of the most inconsistent QBs in the league so long as people (e.g. HIM) call him great. Put that aside for a second. Want to know the difference? Jake Delhomme\'s numbers from his first year as a starter to his second: His completion percentage was essentially the same and his Yards, YPA, TD:INT ratio, big plays, and QB rating all improved drastically. Just so there\'s no questions: Year, Yards, YPA, TD:INT, 20+, QB RAting 2003, 3219, 7.17, 19:16, 46, 80.6 2004, 3886, 7.29, 29:15, 60, 87.3 You know what that is? It\'s IMPROVEMENT - despite a 4th string RB, a worse and more injury battered o-line, a receving corp no more talented in \'04 than the Saints\', and a team that started 1-7. Compare that to AB\'s first to years. Year, Yards, YPA, TD:INT, 20+, QB RAting 2001, 3832, 6.87, 26:22, 55, 76.4 2002, 3572, 6.77, 27:15, 47, 80.1 Bottom line: AB regressed in his second year in as many categories as he improved. Yards: down. YPA: down. Big plays: down. But hey, let\'s look at where AB is FIVE YEARS after taking the starting role. 2004, 3810, 7.03, 21:16, 57, 79.5 Where is he now? About where he STARTED. NO PROGRESS. But hey just consider. Delhomme\'s total yards in 2004 (his second year): More than AB EVER Delhomme\'s YPA in 2004: Better than AB EVER Delhomme\'s TD:INT ration in 2004 (nearly 2:1): Better than AB EVER. Delhomme\'s total TDs in 2004: More than AB EVER Delhomme\'s 20+ yard Comps in 2004: More than AB EVER Delhomme\'s total INTs in 2004: Ties AB\'s second best year EVER. Delhomme\'s QB rating in 2004: 1.5 points behind AB\'s best EVER. Delhomme\'s career QB rating: Better than AB\'s Delhomme\'s winning percentage as a starter: Better than AB\'s. Delhomme\'s playoff victories: Better than AB\'s. Delhomme\'s Super Bowl appearances: 17 trillion times more than AB\'s (pick any number you want - anything time zero is zero). Oh, but AB threw so many passes this year that\'s not fair - AB attempts in 2004, 542. Delhomme - 533. AB threw NINE more passes. Injured or not would you rather be handing off to McAllister or even Stecker... or Nick frickin\' Goings??? The bottom line is that Jake Delhomme is already a better QB right now than AB has EVER been, and we all know that Jake is far less talented. Throw the intangibles back in and who would you prefer? The fiery leader who is overachieving and performing better or the egotistical athlete who has had EVERY opportunity possibly imaginable handed to him on a plate and still can\'t perform to the standards of a guy generally considered to be the new version of Trent Dilfer?
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04-07-2005, 03:32 PM	#16
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme No but see WhoDat...the Defense caused AB\'s numbers to be lower. And besides, being on a great team makes his numbers better. If AB, being a great QB, was on the Panthers, a great team, his numbers would be much better. :icon_eyesroll:
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

04-07-2005, 04:43 PM	#17
natedogg02 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 145	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme Yea some people are just AB haters, I dont see how anyone that\'s been a NO fan since AB has been here, thinks he\'s the reason we\'ve failed. Sure he has his time\'s to but, heck bad things happen when your D sucks so bad, your WR\'s drop 2 or 3 passes a piece per game, there\'s 2 or 3 dt\'s or lb\'s hiting you from all angle\'s, I think most of his mistake\'s are when were getting our butt\'s kicked so bad, and he\'s just trying to make something happen. The Panthers were just ckicking in all 3 phases that year and thats something we fail to do. There\'s always at least 1 phase of our game that fails to show up (usually our D). You see what happened the last 4 games when the D started to make a few plays.
natedogg02 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 145

04-07-2005, 05:13 PM	#18
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme You see what happened the last 4 games when the D started to make a few plays Well, I see that, but it\'s far too obvious and it doesn\'t fit the agenda.

04-07-2005, 05:22 PM	#19
natedogg02 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 145	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme It does fit cause i\'m telling why JD went to SB and why AB hasn\'t yet. and that quote was saying that AB can win just like JD when the whole team shows up.
natedogg02 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 145

04-07-2005, 05:30 PM	#20
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Aaron Brooks vs. Jake Delhomme Jake Delhomme was able to lead his team to the super bowl and he won three playoff games. Aaron Brooks, well ....... let\'s just say he hasn\'t done as well as Delhomme in the playoffs (or getting to them). Both the Saints and Panthers never had great offensive lines (which we know is the most important thing - just ask Billy what the key to the Saints\' success is this season), but Delhomme still led his team to the promised land. IN HIS FIRST YEAR !! Why can\'t Brokos do what Delhomme did? Let me hear it folks? [Edited on 7/4/2005 by WhoDat] Using that same linear logic it can also be said that... Steven Davis is better than Deuce McAllister and Muhsin Muhammed is better than Joe Horn Hmmm, actually now that I think about it, they just might be.