So how important is Lattimore?

jeanpierre · 11-28-2017, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

I don't agree with that...

I think we are the best team in the NFC. If our starting CBs play we win this game easy.

Doesn't matter what you agree with, record is what it is...

And two of the three teams in the NFC that have better records, Rams and Vikings, have beaten us already...

Only way we're the best team in the NFC is if we win out, and win the NFC Conference Championship Game...

Despite Ireland having steadied the personnel moves, we really are limited in depth right now at critical positions...

We're now the fourth seed now in the tournament, do not control our destiny and must win and get help and that is a fact, reality...

K Major · 11-28-2017, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

And in today's pass-happy NFL, you've got to be four-deep at CB and three-deep at S, and we're close, but not there yet...

JP aka Saints GM ...

What are you doing with Kenny V this off season? Offer him a fair deal? Let him walk? Look for his successor in the 2018 draft?

I think this topic (safety/corner back position) needs it's own thread.

ChrisXVI · 11-28-2017, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

JP aka Saints GM ...

What are you doing with Kenny V this off season? Offer him a fair deal? Let him walk? Look for his successor in the 2018 draft?

I think this topic (safety/corner back position) needs it's own thread.

Not JP, but Vacarro’s impending free agency is very intriguing to me. This past offseason the top free agent deals for SS were these:

Tony Jefferson- 4 years/$34 million (Avg: $8.5 mil/year)
Micah Hyde- 5 years/$30.5 million (Avg: $6.1 mil/year)
Barry Church- 4 years/$26 million (Avg: $6.5 mil/year)
John Cyprien- 4 years/$25 million (Avg: $6.25 mil/year)

Vacarro’s 5th year option is costing us $5.67 million. I don’t think it would be too unreasonable to give him a slight bump in salary and give him a deal similar to the deals above that average between $6-6.5 million/year.

saintfan · 11-28-2017, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Doesn't matter what you agree with, record is what it is...

And two of the three teams in the NFC that have better records, Rams and Vikings, have beaten us already...

Only way we're the best team in the NFC is if we win out, and win the NFC Conference Championship Game...

Despite Ireland having steadied the personnel moves, we really are limited in depth right now at critical positions...

We're now the fourth seed now in the tournament, do not control our destiny and must win and get help and that is a fact, reality...

Depth for sure. This is why I was wondering in some other thread about Sean's plan. Another solid off season and we're gonna be stout.

K Major · 11-28-2017, 10:34 AM

Appreciate the insight XVI ...

But for me, I'm letting Kenny walk. There has been too many times where he has needed to make game changing plays and he's failed. Too inconsistent throughout his career & lacks play maker ability we desperately need at the position.

I'd be happy with a guy like Eric Reid, Barry Church (Dallas is now missing his production) & T.J. Ward types.

I'm in the minority here but over the years KV is too much hit or miss. He'll look like crap the first 3 weeks, then get better the next. Does he play well because of the talent around him? All I see is average at the position. We need more ball hawks and dawgs at safety.

Again, I'd let Kenny walk but that's just me

.

ChrisXVI · 11-28-2017, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Appreciate the insight XVI ...

But for me, I'm letting Kenny walk. There has been too many times where he has needed to make game changing plays and he's failed. Too inconsistent throughout his career & lacks play maker ability we desperately need at the position.

I'd be happy with a guy like Eric Reid, Barry Church (Dallas is now missing his production) & T.J. Ward types.

I'm in the minority here but over the years KV is too much hit or miss. He'll look like crap the first 3 weeks, then get better the next. Does he play well because of the talent around him? All I see is average at the position. We need more ball hawks and dawgs at safety.

Again, I'd let Kenny walk but that's just me .

For the record, I think the Saints do intend to let him walk. I think there’s a reason we spent 2nd round picks in consecutive drafts on safeties.

Vacarro doesn’t shine on his own when the talent level around him is subpar. When Lattimore, Crawley, Williams and Bell are around him he looks great. Then you look at weeks 1, 2 and this past game and he looks totally lost.

The only reason I’d keep him is cohesiveness and fearing the drop off in chemistry like when Jenkins/Harper were let go.

saintsfan1976 · 11-28-2017, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

I'm pretty sure missing your top 2 starting CB's (3 if you count Breaux) would be significant on any team.

Significant sure but the fact we have such a drop off in performance is attributable to poor decisions. Don’t forget our top 2 CBs this year weren’t our top two CBs last year.

RockyMountainSaint · 11-28-2017, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Appreciate the insight XVI ...

But for me, I'm letting Kenny walk. There has been too many times where he has needed to make game changing plays and he's failed. Too inconsistent throughout his career & lacks play maker ability we desperately need at the position.

I'd be happy with a guy like Eric Reid, Barry Church (Dallas is now missing his production) & T.J. Ward types.

I'm in the minority here but over the years KV is too much hit or miss. He'll look like crap the first 3 weeks, then get better the next. Does he play well because of the talent around him? All I see is average at the position. We need more ball hawks and dawgs at safety.
Again, I'd let Kenny walk but that's just me .

Don't forget the stupid personal fouls he gets to extend drives and kill D momentum.

jeanpierre · 11-28-2017, 12:43 PM

Here're the questions when it comes to Kenny Vaccaro...

Will there be better players in Free Agency? What are the options?

Is he worth top end money among Strong Safeties?

How integral a teammate is he to the roster chemistry?

Is there a rookie who can transition with an impact equal or greater?

We must have better play from the Strong Safety, but can Kenny get any better?

saintsfan1976 · 11-28-2017, 03:00 PM

KV’a issues are 1) versatility and 2) consistency. When he’s in the right role and playing good football he’s a top 10 SS.

11-28-2017, 05:50 AM	#21
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Originally Posted by blackangold I don't agree with that... I think we are the best team in the NFC. If our starting CBs play we win this game easy. Doesn't matter what you agree with, record is what it is... And two of the three teams in the NFC that have better records, Rams and Vikings, have beaten us already... Only way we're the best team in the NFC is if we win out, and win the NFC Conference Championship Game... Despite Ireland having steadied the personnel moves, we really are limited in depth right now at critical positions... We're now the fourth seed now in the tournament, do not control our destiny and must win and get help and that is a fact, reality... RockyMountainSaint likes this.

11-28-2017, 09:33 AM	#22
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Originally Posted by jeanpierre And in today's pass-happy NFL, you've got to be four-deep at CB and three-deep at S, and we're close, but not there yet... JP aka Saints GM ... What are you doing with Kenny V this off season? Offer him a fair deal? Let him walk? Look for his successor in the 2018 draft? I think this topic (safety/corner back position) needs it's own thread.

11-28-2017, 10:08 AM	#23
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Originally Posted by K Major JP aka Saints GM ... What are you doing with Kenny V this off season? Offer him a fair deal? Let him walk? Look for his successor in the 2018 draft? I think this topic (safety/corner back position) needs it's own thread. Not JP, but Vacarro’s impending free agency is very intriguing to me. This past offseason the top free agent deals for SS were these: Tony Jefferson- 4 years/$34 million (Avg: $8.5 mil/year) Micah Hyde- 5 years/$30.5 million (Avg: $6.1 mil/year) Barry Church- 4 years/$26 million (Avg: $6.5 mil/year) John Cyprien- 4 years/$25 million (Avg: $6.25 mil/year) Vacarro’s 5th year option is costing us $5.67 million. I don’t think it would be too unreasonable to give him a slight bump in salary and give him a deal similar to the deals above that average between $6-6.5 million/year. K Major likes this.
	"When you get into one of these groups, there's only a couple of ways you can get out. One, is death; the other, is mental institutions."

11-28-2017, 10:30 AM	#24
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Originally Posted by jeanpierre Doesn't matter what you agree with, record is what it is... And two of the three teams in the NFC that have better records, Rams and Vikings, have beaten us already... Only way we're the best team in the NFC is if we win out, and win the NFC Conference Championship Game... Despite Ireland having steadied the personnel moves, we really are limited in depth right now at critical positions... We're now the fourth seed now in the tournament, do not control our destiny and must win and get help and that is a fact, reality... Depth for sure. This is why I was wondering in some other thread about Sean's plan. Another solid off season and we're gonna be stout. jeanpierre likes this.

11-28-2017, 10:34 AM	#25
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Appreciate the insight XVI ... But for me, I'm letting Kenny walk. There has been too many times where he has needed to make game changing plays and he's failed. Too inconsistent throughout his career & lacks play maker ability we desperately need at the position. I'd be happy with a guy like Eric Reid, Barry Church (Dallas is now missing his production) & T.J. Ward types. I'm in the minority here but over the years KV is too much hit or miss. He'll look like crap the first 3 weeks, then get better the next. Does he play well because of the talent around him? All I see is average at the position. We need more ball hawks and dawgs at safety. Again, I'd let Kenny walk but that's just me . RockyMountainSaint, WillMacKenzie, ScottF and 2 others like this.

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11-28-2017, 10:48 AM	#26
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Originally Posted by K Major Appreciate the insight XVI ... But for me, I'm letting Kenny walk. There has been too many times where he has needed to make game changing plays and he's failed. Too inconsistent throughout his career & lacks play maker ability we desperately need at the position. I'd be happy with a guy like Eric Reid, Barry Church (Dallas is now missing his production) & T.J. Ward types. I'm in the minority here but over the years KV is too much hit or miss. He'll look like crap the first 3 weeks, then get better the next. Does he play well because of the talent around him? All I see is average at the position. We need more ball hawks and dawgs at safety. Again, I'd let Kenny walk but that's just me . For the record, I think the Saints do intend to let him walk. I think there’s a reason we spent 2nd round picks in consecutive drafts on safeties. Vacarro doesn’t shine on his own when the talent level around him is subpar. When Lattimore, Crawley, Williams and Bell are around him he looks great. Then you look at weeks 1, 2 and this past game and he looks totally lost. The only reason I’d keep him is cohesiveness and fearing the drop off in chemistry like when Jenkins/Harper were let go. Rugby Saint II likes this.

11-28-2017, 11:47 AM	#27
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,846 Blog Entries: 3	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Originally Posted by Danno I'm pretty sure missing your top 2 starting CB's (3 if you count Breaux) would be significant on any team. Significant sure but the fact we have such a drop off in performance is attributable to poor decisions. Don’t forget our top 2 CBs this year weren’t our top two CBs last year. jeanpierre likes this.

11-28-2017, 12:29 PM	#28
RockyMountainSaint Mmm That Smell! Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Metairie Terrace Posts: 3,073	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Originally Posted by K Major Appreciate the insight XVI ... But for me, I'm letting Kenny walk. There has been too many times where he has needed to make game changing plays and he's failed. Too inconsistent throughout his career & lacks play maker ability we desperately need at the position. I'd be happy with a guy like Eric Reid, Barry Church (Dallas is now missing his production) & T.J. Ward types. I'm in the minority here but over the years KV is too much hit or miss. He'll look like crap the first 3 weeks, then get better the next. Does he play well because of the talent around him? All I see is average at the position. We need more ball hawks and dawgs at safety. Again, I'd let Kenny walk but that's just me . Don't forget the stupid personal fouls he gets to extend drives and kill D momentum.

11-28-2017, 12:43 PM	#29
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: So how important is Lattimore? Here're the questions when it comes to Kenny Vaccaro... Will there be better players in Free Agency? What are the options? Is he worth top end money among Strong Safeties? How integral a teammate is he to the roster chemistry? Is there a rookie who can transition with an impact equal or greater? We must have better play from the Strong Safety, but can Kenny get any better?

11-28-2017, 03:00 PM	#30
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,846 Blog Entries: 3	Re: So how important is Lattimore? KV’a issues are 1) versatility and 2) consistency. When he’s in the right role and playing good football he’s a top 10 SS. Rugby Saint II likes this.

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