2005: The Hopeful Realist

WhoDat · 04-20-2005, 10:26 AM

You may hope for the best -- we all do -- but you expect the worst, right?

As grumpy as I may come across at times, honestly, no, I don\'t always expect the worst. I doubt that you\'ll believe that, but it\'s true.

There are times when I look at the Saints schedule at about this time in preseason (and yes, this happens every year), and I wonder how we will win 4 games. Then there are times that I look at the schedule and think, well if this or that just happens to go our way, we could win 12! But in the end, with this team, I always seem to come back to what I believe to be a more \"realistic\" record given the situation.

And that\'s not to say I\'m always right. I think in the preseason of 2001 it would have been pessimistic after the 2000 season to predict 7-9. I certainly didn\'t. I predicted 11-5. I wasn\'t sure that the team could keep pace after such an incredible year, but with all that talent, and the new \"air\" about the Saints, I thought it was up, up, and away. If you think my view has been particularly less optimistic since then, it has. But I don\'t think that is unfounded.

In other words, there\'s being negative because there\'s good reason to be. Then there\'s being negative simply because you\'re a grumpy bugger. I know which you think I am, but it hasn\'t always been that way. My current outlook is the fault of the team and staff, not my own personal negativity. Compare that to Billy, who will always give you the absolutely most positive shine on things possible. That\'s optimism, not simply a positive outlook on the facts as they actually appear.

It\'s just my opinion. Think I\'m a pessimist if you want. But when the team gives me reason to be positive, I am. I was in 2001. I was hesitant in 2002, but after the first 9 games or so I was talking about the Saints potentially being the team to beat in the NFC. Like I said, I\'m not always right - but I will give credit where due. Right now, the Saints\' \"good faith\" balance is WAY into the red.

GoldenTomb · 04-20-2005, 01:00 PM

People might call me a so called \"pessimist\". Those guys that label probably don\'t realize that a pessimist like me has Aaron Brooks, a player that I loathe for his apathy and gereral idiocy, on the screensaver on my computer, I sleep under a black and gold Saints blanket in my barracks. I have two jerseys(AB and Deuce) that I wear proudly to the Hooters that I have to drive an hour to just to watch the Saints on satellite in upstate NY. I am an avid player of Madden football, and play with the Saints a good 95% of the time(usually win about that same amount).

I do as much as anyone, Saints FO included, to promote the Saints as a legitimate team in the NFL. That doesn\'t mean that we will turn a blind eye to the past whenever the team says that things are different and it\'s a new beginning. Occasionally I, along with many other Saints fans, will rant and complain and moan about things. Yeah it can be repetitive and what not, but it\'s theraputic for people like me to do it here, rather than complain to fans of other teams, who already think we suck. I\'d rather show a happy face to the general public, and complain and moan to my fellow Saints fans.

No one here \"expects the worst\". We just mentally prepare ourselves for the possibility that we might not win the Super Bowl this year. There is a middle ground between optimism and pessimism, and that\'s people like myself.

I would consider myself a \"hopeful realist\". The true pessimists are the ones that have totally tuned out the Saints and don\'t even watch them anymore, convinced that they will never amount to anything. I don\'t see how anyone could call a fan a pessimist.

Saint_LB · 04-20-2005, 01:34 PM

People might call me a so called \"pessimist\". Those guys that label probably don\'t realize that a pessimist like me has Aaron Brooks, a player that I loathe for his apathy and gereral idiocy, on the screensaver on my computer, I sleep under a black and gold Saints blanket in my barracks. I have two jerseys(AB and Deuce) that I wear proudly to the Hooters that I have to drive an hour to just to watch the Saints on satellite in upstate NY. I am an avid player of Madden football, and play with the Saints a good 95% of the time(usually win about that same amount).

I do as much as anyone, Saints FO included, to promote the Saints as a legitimate team in the NFL. That doesn\'t mean that we will turn a blind eye to the past whenever the team says that things are different and it\'s a new beginning. Occasionally I, along with many other Saints fans, will rant and complain and moan about things. Yeah it can be repetitive and what not, but it\'s theraputic for people like me to do it here, rather than complain to fans of other teams, who already think we suck. I\'d rather show a happy face to the general public, and complain and moan to my fellow Saints fans.

No one here \"expects the worst\". We just mentally prepare ourselves for the possibility that we might not win the Super Bowl this year. There is a middle ground between optimism and pessimism, and that\'s people like myself.

I would consider myself a \"hopeful realist\". The true pessimists are the ones that have totally tuned out the Saints and don\'t even watch them anymore, convinced that they will never amount to anything. I don\'t see how anyone could call a fan a pessimist.

Good post, GT.

WhoDat · 04-20-2005, 01:49 PM

I second that. Seems this hopeful realism has a future at BnG.

Danno · 04-20-2005, 02:32 PM

I second that. Seems this hopeful realism has a future at BnG.

Sure beats the crap outta that Doubtful Skepticism thats been infecting this place for too long.

GumboBC · 04-20-2005, 03:10 PM

I knew how WhoDat was going to respond. Typical!!

WhoDat wants to turn this thread into something other than what he said.

He wants to talk about how \"optimisim\" is just misguided.

But, I want to talk about a statement that WhoDat made and see if he is going to stand behind it.

With all due respect, WhoDat ... You made this statement and you should provide some kind of answer!!??

I expect an 8-8 or 9-7 year, and I will continue to expect that until the team proves me wrong.

You\'re going to expect 8-8 or 9-7 no matter what until the team proves me wrong!!

That\'s \"exactly\" what you said.

So, that means it doesn\'t matter who we sign in free-agency or who we draft ... you\'re going to preach an 8-8 season!!

That, sir, is pretty closed-minded.

And it really explains a lot!!

You started this thread to talk about yourself. Don\'t turn it into something about me!!!

saintswhodi · 04-20-2005, 03:24 PM

With all due respect Gum, based on other comments by Who, including his statement that we have not adequately addressed needs, the team proving him wrong could be just that, adequately addressing glaring needs. Such as getting a Hartwell at LB or a Samari Rolle at corner something to that nature outside of this middling approach to free agency. I am sure that would be enough for him to change his mind. It\'s not necessarily them attaining a better record, it could just as well be them going all out for a change to make a difference on this team. Getting Smith was good, getting Mayberry to play RT is not gonna receive glowing reviews. Getting Shad Meier, eh. Levar Fisher? We\'re cooking now. I am certain this is what he means, show him a different approach to getting this team over the hump, and he will be proven wrong. His stance has been all along that we would not do much in FA, is he wrong?

[Edited on 20/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

GumboBC · 04-20-2005, 03:38 PM

saintwhodi --

I get bogged down in these discussions sometimes and things generally become very confusing.

Let me clear something up real quick, though.

If I were betting ... I would say this team, as it stands right now, is about an 8-8 team. That\'s what the smart money says, IMHO.

Hell, it doesn\'t take a rocket scientist to figure that out!!

But that really doesn\'t have ANYthing to do with what I\'m talking about.

What gets me about some fans is how they DWELL on the negative!!

For those that didn\'t catch what I just said:

SOME FOLKS LOVE TO DWELL ON THE NEGATIVE!!!

One more time:

SOME FOLKS LOVE TO DWELL ON THE NEGATIVE!!!

And what that does is defeat the purpose of debating Saints\' football.

Now ... I\'m only talking about a few select folks. I\'m not going to name names, so not to offend anyone.

But ... as the ol\' sayin\' goes: If the shoe fits ... wear it!!

If someone is getting offended about right now ... then I\'m probably talking about you.

For the record: I don\'t give a flyin\' flip how anyone feels about the Saints.

I\'m going to remain optimistic no matter what.

If we would have finished 1-15 for the past 30-years, I\'m still going to be optimistic that we have improved. That is, unless it is so blantently obvious that we cannont compete.

The fact is that we\'ve got a lot of talent on this team and we are very close to having one hell of a team.

That might not equate to anything more than an 8-8 record.

Hell, I don\'t know what our record is going to be this year.

But ... get this ... no one else does either.

If someone is so damn sure that we\'ll finish 8-8 .. then go to Vegas and bet your house.

Preaching 8-8 or 9-7 over and over and over is very old. Very old!!

Peace

[Edited on 20/4/2005 by GumboBC]

4saintspirit · 04-20-2005, 03:50 PM

I didn\'t hear anyone preaching 8-8; 9-7 --- The odds are that they are but I agree with you -- they have loads of talent -- on defense too -- I actually, in a thread a while back, have them going 10-6 -- so what -- that is my opinion -- do I want them to go 16-0, 17-0, 18-0, 19-0 sure -- but I do not see the point in posting that either -- I think I am missing something here in this whole thread ---

saintswhodi · 04-20-2005, 03:58 PM

Preaching 8-8 or 9-7 over and over and over is very old. Very old!!

Well, so is the team underachieving to these records. That\'s been old for about 3 years now. If someone says the past 3 years, the Saints will be 8-8 or worse, and the Saints ARE 8-8 or worse, how does that mean they DWELL on the negative? I am just trying to understand that logic. It\'s not like we have been 10-6 and someone is predicting 8-8. We haven\'t been 9-7 except 4 years ago under this regime. So I just don\'t see why it\'s so terrible for someone to say that\'s how it will be, after we have made hardly any significant changes to alter this team\'s status as a mediocre team. Is all this talent suddenly gonna play above its head? Just wanna understand how predicting the record the team has been for the past 4 years to remain the same without major changes taking place is so wrong.

04-20-2005, 10:26 AM	#21
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	2005: The Hopeful Realist You may hope for the best -- we all do -- but you expect the worst, right? As grumpy as I may come across at times, honestly, no, I don\'t always expect the worst. I doubt that you\'ll believe that, but it\'s true. There are times when I look at the Saints schedule at about this time in preseason (and yes, this happens every year), and I wonder how we will win 4 games. Then there are times that I look at the schedule and think, well if this or that just happens to go our way, we could win 12! But in the end, with this team, I always seem to come back to what I believe to be a more \"realistic\" record given the situation. And that\'s not to say I\'m always right. I think in the preseason of 2001 it would have been pessimistic after the 2000 season to predict 7-9. I certainly didn\'t. I predicted 11-5. I wasn\'t sure that the team could keep pace after such an incredible year, but with all that talent, and the new \"air\" about the Saints, I thought it was up, up, and away. If you think my view has been particularly less optimistic since then, it has. But I don\'t think that is unfounded. In other words, there\'s being negative because there\'s good reason to be. Then there\'s being negative simply because you\'re a grumpy bugger. I know which you think I am, but it hasn\'t always been that way. My current outlook is the fault of the team and staff, not my own personal negativity. Compare that to Billy, who will always give you the absolutely most positive shine on things possible. That\'s optimism, not simply a positive outlook on the facts as they actually appear. It\'s just my opinion. Think I\'m a pessimist if you want. But when the team gives me reason to be positive, I am. I was in 2001. I was hesitant in 2002, but after the first 9 games or so I was talking about the Saints potentially being the team to beat in the NFC. Like I said, I\'m not always right - but I will give credit where due. Right now, the Saints\' \"good faith\" balance is WAY into the red.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

04-20-2005, 01:00 PM	#22
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	2005: The Hopeful Realist People might call me a so called \"pessimist\". Those guys that label probably don\'t realize that a pessimist like me has Aaron Brooks, a player that I loathe for his apathy and gereral idiocy, on the screensaver on my computer, I sleep under a black and gold Saints blanket in my barracks. I have two jerseys(AB and Deuce) that I wear proudly to the Hooters that I have to drive an hour to just to watch the Saints on satellite in upstate NY. I am an avid player of Madden football, and play with the Saints a good 95% of the time(usually win about that same amount). I do as much as anyone, Saints FO included, to promote the Saints as a legitimate team in the NFL. That doesn\'t mean that we will turn a blind eye to the past whenever the team says that things are different and it\'s a new beginning. Occasionally I, along with many other Saints fans, will rant and complain and moan about things. Yeah it can be repetitive and what not, but it\'s theraputic for people like me to do it here, rather than complain to fans of other teams, who already think we suck. I\'d rather show a happy face to the general public, and complain and moan to my fellow Saints fans. No one here \"expects the worst\". We just mentally prepare ourselves for the possibility that we might not win the Super Bowl this year. There is a middle ground between optimism and pessimism, and that\'s people like myself. I would consider myself a \"hopeful realist\". The true pessimists are the ones that have totally tuned out the Saints and don\'t even watch them anymore, convinced that they will never amount to anything. I don\'t see how anyone could call a fan a pessimist.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

04-20-2005, 01:34 PM	#23
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	2005: The Hopeful Realist People might call me a so called \"pessimist\". Those guys that label probably don\'t realize that a pessimist like me has Aaron Brooks, a player that I loathe for his apathy and gereral idiocy, on the screensaver on my computer, I sleep under a black and gold Saints blanket in my barracks. I have two jerseys(AB and Deuce) that I wear proudly to the Hooters that I have to drive an hour to just to watch the Saints on satellite in upstate NY. I am an avid player of Madden football, and play with the Saints a good 95% of the time(usually win about that same amount). I do as much as anyone, Saints FO included, to promote the Saints as a legitimate team in the NFL. That doesn\'t mean that we will turn a blind eye to the past whenever the team says that things are different and it\'s a new beginning. Occasionally I, along with many other Saints fans, will rant and complain and moan about things. Yeah it can be repetitive and what not, but it\'s theraputic for people like me to do it here, rather than complain to fans of other teams, who already think we suck. I\'d rather show a happy face to the general public, and complain and moan to my fellow Saints fans. No one here \"expects the worst\". We just mentally prepare ourselves for the possibility that we might not win the Super Bowl this year. There is a middle ground between optimism and pessimism, and that\'s people like myself. I would consider myself a \"hopeful realist\". The true pessimists are the ones that have totally tuned out the Saints and don\'t even watch them anymore, convinced that they will never amount to anything. I don\'t see how anyone could call a fan a pessimist. Good post, GT.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

04-20-2005, 01:49 PM	#24
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	2005: The Hopeful Realist I second that. Seems this hopeful realism has a future at BnG.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

04-20-2005, 02:32 PM	#25
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	2005: The Hopeful Realist I second that. Seems this hopeful realism has a future at BnG. Sure beats the crap outta that Doubtful Skepticism thats been infecting this place for too long.

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04-20-2005, 03:10 PM	#26
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	2005: The Hopeful Realist I knew how WhoDat was going to respond. Typical!! WhoDat wants to turn this thread into something other than what he said. He wants to talk about how \"optimisim\" is just misguided. But, I want to talk about a statement that WhoDat made and see if he is going to stand behind it. With all due respect, WhoDat ... You made this statement and you should provide some kind of answer!!?? I expect an 8-8 or 9-7 year, and I will continue to expect that until the team proves me wrong. You\'re going to expect 8-8 or 9-7 no matter what until the team proves me wrong!! That\'s \"exactly\" what you said. So, that means it doesn\'t matter who we sign in free-agency or who we draft ... you\'re going to preach an 8-8 season!! That, sir, is pretty closed-minded. And it really explains a lot!! You started this thread to talk about yourself. Don\'t turn it into something about me!!!
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-20-2005, 03:24 PM	#27
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	2005: The Hopeful Realist With all due respect Gum, based on other comments by Who, including his statement that we have not adequately addressed needs, the team proving him wrong could be just that, adequately addressing glaring needs. Such as getting a Hartwell at LB or a Samari Rolle at corner something to that nature outside of this middling approach to free agency. I am sure that would be enough for him to change his mind. It\'s not necessarily them attaining a better record, it could just as well be them going all out for a change to make a difference on this team. Getting Smith was good, getting Mayberry to play RT is not gonna receive glowing reviews. Getting Shad Meier, eh. Levar Fisher? We\'re cooking now. I am certain this is what he means, show him a different approach to getting this team over the hump, and he will be proven wrong. His stance has been all along that we would not do much in FA, is he wrong? [Edited on 20/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

04-20-2005, 03:38 PM	#28
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	2005: The Hopeful Realist saintwhodi -- I get bogged down in these discussions sometimes and things generally become very confusing. Let me clear something up real quick, though. If I were betting ... I would say this team, as it stands right now, is about an 8-8 team. That\'s what the smart money says, IMHO. Hell, it doesn\'t take a rocket scientist to figure that out!! But that really doesn\'t have ANYthing to do with what I\'m talking about. What gets me about some fans is how they DWELL on the negative!! For those that didn\'t catch what I just said: SOME FOLKS LOVE TO DWELL ON THE NEGATIVE!!! One more time: SOME FOLKS LOVE TO DWELL ON THE NEGATIVE!!! And what that does is defeat the purpose of debating Saints\' football. Now ... I\'m only talking about a few select folks. I\'m not going to name names, so not to offend anyone. But ... as the ol\' sayin\' goes: If the shoe fits ... wear it!! If someone is getting offended about right now ... then I\'m probably talking about you. For the record: I don\'t give a flyin\' flip how anyone feels about the Saints. I\'m going to remain optimistic no matter what. If we would have finished 1-15 for the past 30-years, I\'m still going to be optimistic that we have improved. That is, unless it is so blantently obvious that we cannont compete. The fact is that we\'ve got a lot of talent on this team and we are very close to having one hell of a team. That might not equate to anything more than an 8-8 record. Hell, I don\'t know what our record is going to be this year. But ... get this ... no one else does either. If someone is so damn sure that we\'ll finish 8-8 .. then go to Vegas and bet your house. Preaching 8-8 or 9-7 over and over and over is very old. Very old!! Peace [Edited on 20/4/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-20-2005, 03:50 PM	#29
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	2005: The Hopeful Realist I didn\'t hear anyone preaching 8-8; 9-7 --- The odds are that they are but I agree with you -- they have loads of talent -- on defense too -- I actually, in a thread a while back, have them going 10-6 -- so what -- that is my opinion -- do I want them to go 16-0, 17-0, 18-0, 19-0 sure -- but I do not see the point in posting that either -- I think I am missing something here in this whole thread ---
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

04-20-2005, 03:58 PM	#30
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	2005: The Hopeful Realist Preaching 8-8 or 9-7 over and over and over is very old. Very old!! Well, so is the team underachieving to these records. That\'s been old for about 3 years now. If someone says the past 3 years, the Saints will be 8-8 or worse, and the Saints ARE 8-8 or worse, how does that mean they DWELL on the negative? I am just trying to understand that logic. It\'s not like we have been 10-6 and someone is predicting 8-8. We haven\'t been 9-7 except 4 years ago under this regime. So I just don\'t see why it\'s so terrible for someone to say that\'s how it will be, after we have made hardly any significant changes to alter this team\'s status as a mediocre team. Is all this talent suddenly gonna play above its head? Just wanna understand how predicting the record the team has been for the past 4 years to remain the same without major changes taking place is so wrong.