2005: The Hopeful Realist

WhoDat · 04-19-2005, 04:49 PM

With the draft just around the corner, posting on BnG seems to be at a fevered pitch - but I find myself highly uninterested in most of the draft speculation. I recently asked myself, why?

Maybe I am just the pessimist that some on this board enjoy coloring me to be. After all, I don't expect this team to make the right choices in the draft. They haven't in the past. What's to make them start now?

This got me to thinking about the old Pessimism v. Optimism debate that has raged on this board. Does expecting the Saints not to succeed mean you're a pessimist? Afterall, they haven't succeeded, and expecting them not to doesn't mean that I don't want them to. That's something right?

So I consulted the dictionary, and found what I was looking for.

Optimism is "a tendency to expect the best possible outcome or dwell on the most hopeful aspects of a situation, an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome." There are some of those here, no doubt. I am not one of them. So what am I?

A hopeful realist.

A realist is "a person who accepts the world as it literally is and deals with it accordingly." While Billy and Saintfan will no doubt jump on me for this, I think I am closer to this than anything else. That my track record in predicting results and future strengths and weaknesses has bee fairly good, as far as predictions for the Saints go, makes me think I'm on to something.

So what is a hopeful realist?

To me, it's a person who believes that the Saints can have it all go their way. A person who is hopeful (i.e. desires that result) that the Saints will win it all. However, a hopeful realist is one who isn't going to construe things as positively as possible. Nor as negatively as possible either, despite what some might say.

This team is talented. If some of the young players can step it up, the team can be a good one. Then again the reality of situation is that these same players and coaches have had ample time in the past to do just that (step up), and haven't. Why think they will this year? Hope for it sure - but is there reason to think that they will? I haven't seen any.

So looking at the 2005 season, just before draft day, what do I see? I expect an 8-8 or 9-7 year, and I will continue to expect that until the team proves me wrong. What do I hope for? I hope that things can go the Saints' way, that players can play up and coaches can coach better, and we can end up 11-5 and in the playoffs. But then, that's just one Hopeful Realist's view. ;)

ssmitty · 04-19-2005, 05:08 PM

there\'s a lot of grease in that one wd-40.............
i\'d have to label you as a faithful realist..........smitty

mutineer10 · 04-19-2005, 05:14 PM

\"Hopeful Realist\" - I kinda like that. Think I\'ll join your ranks...

i\'d have to label you as a faithful realist

LOL! Given that so many of us post on a Saints board, I don\'t think there\'s any lack of \"faith\" here. We\'re all either very faithful or incredibly pathetic.

The term \"masochist\" also comes to mind...

[Edited on 19/4/2005 by mutineer10]

GumboBC · 04-19-2005, 05:16 PM

WhoDat --

Hey, buddy ....

I don\'t think you put a lot of thought in that post.

One statement really showed your true feelings:

Here is that statement:

I expect an 8-8 or 9-7 year, and I will continue to expect that until the team proves me wrong.

There\'s nothing \"realist\" in that statement. Or maybe you just didn\'t think about it before you typed it. But, I believe that\'s exactly how you feel.

Basically what I take from that statement is this:

No matter who the Saints sign or no matter what happens, you will NOT be optimistic (still think we\'ll be 8-8 or 9-7) until they prove otherwise.

That\'s far from being a \"realist\".

A better term for you would be:

CLOSE MINDED!!

No, that is incorrect.

I think you are more of a fan who is just turned off by this particular Saints\' administraion.

But you are far from a realist.

Now, I\'m sure you want to talk about how much of an optimist I am. But think about what I said.

I am more of an optimist. LOL

WhoDat · 04-19-2005, 10:50 PM

sigh.... head shake. One day you\'ll learn.

Reasons to expect more of the same:
- 2 significant signings in FA, only one of which MIGHT be at a top 5 position of need.

- 1 new starter on the 32nd ranked defense.

- 20 starters returning without much change other than another year gone by.

- Same HC, same DC, and a new OC who has produced one of the most inconsistent QBs in football.

- 0 players signed who will directly affect the run defense - but we will lose one in Darren Howard.

- A new less explosive offense being put into place (which is a great idea when the only way you can win is by out-scoring people).

- 4 straight years of this type of action having produced the same results.

The fact that you\'re the one to suggest I didn\'t think this through only proves my point. To you, to EXPECT the Saints to get better is average. To EXPECT them to be great is optimistic. To expect them to be stagnant is pessimistic. And to expect them to get worse means you\'re a Falcon\'s fan. Well, I\'ve got news for you. The rest of the world HOPES that the Saints will get better, and doesn\'t expect much more out of them than what they\'ve given us for the last 4 years. That your hope that the team will get better, which cannot be founded on much else, especially this offseason, only proves that when it comes to being a realist, you\'re great at being blindly optimistic.

[Edited on 20/4/2005 by WhoDat]

Saint_LB · 04-20-2005, 08:40 AM

I like it WhoDat, can I join? I would like to go from \"hopeful realist\" to \"ecstatic believer.\" The only problem is that the team will have to do their part, and in the past that has always been the problem.

4saintspirit · 04-20-2005, 08:50 AM

I like your post -- a hopeful realist -- I always believed that is where I fit in. Another way to put it is \"A Saints fan\". There is no logic behind believing in them -- history is on the side of 8-8, 9-7. To put it another way -- Vegas has over/unders in how many wins the Saints will log this year -- I don\'t think they are out yet but I would guess the over under will be 8 or 8.5. How is that for realism. Now do I want AB to have a pro bowl year, do I want the Saints to go 12-4 and make it to the SuperBowl -- of course -- but why set expectations so high -- I will cheer for the Saints no matter what -- I will enjoy the games no matter what -- thinking they will go 9-7 makes me no less of a fan than one who thinks they will go 16-0

LKelley67 · 04-20-2005, 09:13 AM

well said also whodat.

i am hopeful to no end. i have 38 years to show it.

but faith is a different matter than hope. some here do have faith that you and i may not. webster\'s says of faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof, and, something that is believed especially with strong conviction.

the management by this front office, the coaching on the field, and the performance of many of the players over the past several years has not engendered such belief in me. the moves by the vikes front office this winter is something that can ignite belief whether coming to fruition or not. jeff fisher\'s coaching, no matter what he has to work, with brings expectation of success. faith is powerful but it also fragile and fluid. betrayed faith can wreck one\'s ability to believe at all. i too need to be convinced of there being more substance to this team before i have faith of 12-4 superbowl runs. it could still happen though and i hope it does! fortunately, my faith in this team will not make them win more. but their winning to a new level will increase my faith.

saintswhodi · 04-20-2005, 10:04 AM

Don\'t let Danno in this thread, you will all be labeled pessimists, cause there is nothing \"realist\" about you apparently unless you blindly predict 12-4 and a deep playoff run.

Danno · 04-20-2005, 10:11 AM

Don\'t let Danno in this thread, you will all be labeled pessimists, cause there is nothing \"realist\" about you apparently unless you blindly predict 12-4 and a deep playoff run.

LOL.
Actually there wasn\'t anything in his post I found pessimistic. Sounded pretty realistic to me.
You\'re confusing criticism with pessimism. They are two totally different things. I\'ve been highly critical of many things. Just not pessimistic. Pessimism is a sure sign of a loser.

04-19-2005, 04:49 PM	#1
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	2005: The Hopeful Realist With the draft just around the corner, posting on BnG seems to be at a fevered pitch - but I find myself highly uninterested in most of the draft speculation. I recently asked myself, why? Maybe I am just the pessimist that some on this board enjoy coloring me to be. After all, I don't expect this team to make the right choices in the draft. They haven't in the past. What's to make them start now? This got me to thinking about the old Pessimism v. Optimism debate that has raged on this board. Does expecting the Saints not to succeed mean you're a pessimist? Afterall, they haven't succeeded, and expecting them not to doesn't mean that I don't want them to. That's something right? So I consulted the dictionary, and found what I was looking for. Optimism is "a tendency to expect the best possible outcome or dwell on the most hopeful aspects of a situation, an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome." There are some of those here, no doubt. I am not one of them. So what am I? A hopeful realist. A realist is "a person who accepts the world as it literally is and deals with it accordingly." While Billy and Saintfan will no doubt jump on me for this, I think I am closer to this than anything else. That my track record in predicting results and future strengths and weaknesses has bee fairly good, as far as predictions for the Saints go, makes me think I'm on to something. So what is a hopeful realist? To me, it's a person who believes that the Saints can have it all go their way. A person who is hopeful (i.e. desires that result) that the Saints will win it all. However, a hopeful realist is one who isn't going to construe things as positively as possible. Nor as negatively as possible either, despite what some might say. This team is talented. If some of the young players can step it up, the team can be a good one. Then again the reality of situation is that these same players and coaches have had ample time in the past to do just that (step up), and haven't. Why think they will this year? Hope for it sure - but is there reason to think that they will? I haven't seen any. So looking at the 2005 season, just before draft day, what do I see? I expect an 8-8 or 9-7 year, and I will continue to expect that until the team proves me wrong. What do I hope for? I hope that things can go the Saints' way, that players can play up and coaches can coach better, and we can end up 11-5 and in the playoffs. But then, that's just one Hopeful Realist's view. ;)
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

04-19-2005, 05:08 PM	#2
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	2005: The Hopeful Realist there\'s a lot of grease in that one wd-40............. i\'d have to label you as a faithful realist..........smitty
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

04-19-2005, 05:14 PM	#3
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	2005: The Hopeful Realist \"Hopeful Realist\" - I kinda like that. Think I\'ll join your ranks... i\'d have to label you as a faithful realist LOL! Given that so many of us post on a Saints board, I don\'t think there\'s any lack of \"faith\" here. We\'re all either very faithful or incredibly pathetic. The term \"masochist\" also comes to mind... [Edited on 19/4/2005 by mutineer10]

04-19-2005, 05:16 PM	#4
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	2005: The Hopeful Realist WhoDat -- Hey, buddy .... I don\'t think you put a lot of thought in that post. One statement really showed your true feelings: Here is that statement: I expect an 8-8 or 9-7 year, and I will continue to expect that until the team proves me wrong. There\'s nothing \"realist\" in that statement. Or maybe you just didn\'t think about it before you typed it. But, I believe that\'s exactly how you feel. Basically what I take from that statement is this: No matter who the Saints sign or no matter what happens, you will NOT be optimistic (still think we\'ll be 8-8 or 9-7) until they prove otherwise. That\'s far from being a \"realist\". A better term for you would be: CLOSE MINDED!! No, that is incorrect. I think you are more of a fan who is just turned off by this particular Saints\' administraion. But you are far from a realist. Now, I\'m sure you want to talk about how much of an optimist I am. But think about what I said. I am more of an optimist. LOL
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-19-2005, 10:50 PM	#5
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	2005: The Hopeful Realist sigh.... head shake. One day you\'ll learn. Reasons to expect more of the same: - 2 significant signings in FA, only one of which MIGHT be at a top 5 position of need. - 1 new starter on the 32nd ranked defense. - 20 starters returning without much change other than another year gone by. - Same HC, same DC, and a new OC who has produced one of the most inconsistent QBs in football. - 0 players signed who will directly affect the run defense - but we will lose one in Darren Howard. - A new less explosive offense being put into place (which is a great idea when the only way you can win is by out-scoring people). - 4 straight years of this type of action having produced the same results. The fact that you\'re the one to suggest I didn\'t think this through only proves my point. To you, to EXPECT the Saints to get better is average. To EXPECT them to be great is optimistic. To expect them to be stagnant is pessimistic. And to expect them to get worse means you\'re a Falcon\'s fan. Well, I\'ve got news for you. The rest of the world HOPES that the Saints will get better, and doesn\'t expect much more out of them than what they\'ve given us for the last 4 years. That your hope that the team will get better, which cannot be founded on much else, especially this offseason, only proves that when it comes to being a realist, you\'re great at being blindly optimistic. [Edited on 20/4/2005 by WhoDat]
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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04-20-2005, 08:40 AM	#6
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	2005: The Hopeful Realist I like it WhoDat, can I join? I would like to go from \"hopeful realist\" to \"ecstatic believer.\" The only problem is that the team will have to do their part, and in the past that has always been the problem.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

04-20-2005, 08:50 AM	#7
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	2005: The Hopeful Realist I like your post -- a hopeful realist -- I always believed that is where I fit in. Another way to put it is \"A Saints fan\". There is no logic behind believing in them -- history is on the side of 8-8, 9-7. To put it another way -- Vegas has over/unders in how many wins the Saints will log this year -- I don\'t think they are out yet but I would guess the over under will be 8 or 8.5. How is that for realism. Now do I want AB to have a pro bowl year, do I want the Saints to go 12-4 and make it to the SuperBowl -- of course -- but why set expectations so high -- I will cheer for the Saints no matter what -- I will enjoy the games no matter what -- thinking they will go 9-7 makes me no less of a fan than one who thinks they will go 16-0
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	\"I have a photographic memory -- I just don\'t have any film.\"

04-20-2005, 09:13 AM	#8
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	2005: The Hopeful Realist well said also whodat. i am hopeful to no end. i have 38 years to show it. but faith is a different matter than hope. some here do have faith that you and i may not. webster\'s says of faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof, and, something that is believed especially with strong conviction. the management by this front office, the coaching on the field, and the performance of many of the players over the past several years has not engendered such belief in me. the moves by the vikes front office this winter is something that can ignite belief whether coming to fruition or not. jeff fisher\'s coaching, no matter what he has to work, with brings expectation of success. faith is powerful but it also fragile and fluid. betrayed faith can wreck one\'s ability to believe at all. i too need to be convinced of there being more substance to this team before i have faith of 12-4 superbowl runs. it could still happen though and i hope it does! fortunately, my faith in this team will not make them win more. but their winning to a new level will increase my faith.

04-20-2005, 10:04 AM	#9
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	2005: The Hopeful Realist Don\'t let Danno in this thread, you will all be labeled pessimists, cause there is nothing \"realist\" about you apparently unless you blindly predict 12-4 and a deep playoff run.

04-20-2005, 10:11 AM	#10
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	2005: The Hopeful Realist Don\'t let Danno in this thread, you will all be labeled pessimists, cause there is nothing \"realist\" about you apparently unless you blindly predict 12-4 and a deep playoff run. LOL. Actually there wasn\'t anything in his post I found pessimistic. Sounded pretty realistic to me. You\'re confusing criticism with pessimism. They are two totally different things. I\'ve been highly critical of many things. Just not pessimistic. Pessimism is a sure sign of a loser.