Riddle me this:?

JOESAM2002 · 04-27-2005, 06:20 PM

Rarely do I speak on these issues but.........

I blame Haz and Loomis for drafting a fat lazy person(I just can\'t call him a football player, yet) and I blame Sullivan for not producing what he and others think he can. I have to agree with some others on here that Sullivan is no more than a thief. He\'s stealing the Saints and some other poor soles(who didn\'t get drafted) money by not producing. There\'s no telling how many lives he is affecting by his actions. The boy needs to grow up.

[Edited on 27/4/2005 by JOESAM2002]

GumboBC · 04-27-2005, 06:24 PM

It\'s ALL about production. Nobody would be mad if Sully was paying dividends for us.

I wasn\'t in favor of trading up for anybody and didn\'t really know who Sully was, but I wasn\'t ahppy about it then. At least when we got RW there was general consensus that we got a good player. Not true with Sully.

You have lost focus on the thread not me. My statement was I\'m more likely at this point to give McPherson a chance rather than Sully because he has had his chance to produce and hasn\'t been worth what we gave and has been getting paid all along.

So, what matters other than production?

All I keep hearing is how Sullivan isn\'t playing up to us giving up 2 first round draft picks?

Bottom line, Scotty. Who do you blame for us giving up that much for Sullivan?

A. Jonathan Sullivan
B. Micky Loomis and Jim Haslett

You can\'t blame Sullivan for a decision that was out of his control. Sullivan had nothing to do with that.

Now, if you want to covince me that Sullivan somehow was responsible for us giving up 2 first round picks, then I\'m open the idea. But, you\'re going to have to show me something that I\'m unware of.

Now ... as far as production? So we expect Will Smith to be worth 2 first round draft picks? Or is Jammal Brown worth 2 first round draft picks?

Of course they\'re not worth 2 first round draft picks. And neither is Sullivan. But Sullivan didn\'t demand for Haslett and Loomis to give up that much, either.

That\'s all I\'m saying. To sit here and expect Sullivan to prove he\'s worth two first round draft picks is sure asking a lot.

He needs to play like he\'s worth a first round pick.

No need for folks to keep blaming Sullivan for Haslett and Loomis\' mistake of giving up 2 first round picks.

BlackandBlue · 04-27-2005, 06:29 PM

What is the point of this thread? You\'re trying to tie two parallels, that will never meet.
This is a Saints board. We come here to talk Saints football. We\'ve watched over the past two years a guy getting paid alot of money to be fat and lazy, in a Saints uniform. We blame the front office for the making the pick, but blame falls on Sully for not staying in condition.
McPhereson is not even under contract yet.
What are we talking about again? I\'m confused.

JOESAM2002 · 04-27-2005, 06:30 PM

Gumbo, you have even me confused.

I don\'t think anyone is saying that. The number of picks has nothing to do with whether he produces or not. The problem is, for a first rounder, you\'d think you\'d get more out of him than attacking the media buffet. But, boy he\'s hell at that.

GumboBC · 04-27-2005, 06:34 PM

How can anyone be confused?

BlackandBlue and JoeSam ...

Have you guys never heard anyone blame Sullivan for not playing up to the 2 first round draft picks that were given up for him?

NO?

Well ... read what ScottyRo posted in this thread:

Second, I\'d be shocked to know anyone didn\'t have questions about whether McPherson has truly put things behind him. The only question left for Sulivan is whether he will even be worth keeping on the team. He will never prove to be worth the 2 first round picks we gave up for him.

And ScottyRo surly isn\'t the first person to make that statement.

All I\'ve been saying is it\'s not Sullivan\'s fault that Loomis and Haslett gave up so much for him.

Now, if you want to talk about Sullivan being lazy and whatnot .. then that\'s completely valid.

Tobias-Reiper · 04-27-2005, 06:35 PM

We were talking about what the Saints gave up to get Ricky Williams and Sullivan in the draft. There was NO production to go on.

..and that\'s the thing, after 2 years as a pro there is NO production to go on from Sullivan... whereas Adrian has yet to even be in the State of Louisiana...

ScottyRo · 04-27-2005, 06:37 PM

Who do you blame for us giving up that much for Sullivan?

A. Jonathan Sullivan
B. Micky Loomis and Jim Haslett

Haz and Loomis, but that\'s not the point.

To sit here and expect Sullivan to prove he\'s worth two first round draft picks is sure asking a lot.

First, I said he\'d never be able to do this. Second and again, that\'s not the point. You asked essentially why Sully has a shorter leash than McPherson.

Answer: We gave up more, we pay more and yet Sully produces less that what we could have ever dreamed. He\'s not even trying. At least not before this offseason.

Regardless, of what McPherson has done, he hasn\'t yet hurt the team.

ScottyRo · 04-27-2005, 06:37 PM

after 2 years as a pro there is NO production to go on from Sullivan

Amen.

Saint_LB · 04-27-2005, 06:42 PM

Put it this way, Gumbo. I wouldn\'t have any problem going out and eating with Sully, but when it comes to him playing for the Saints, then I don\'t like the way things have gone so far. It isn\'t personal. He has not produced for the Saints, so therefore most people are very disenchanted with him. What is so hard to understand about that?

As far as MacPherson is concerned, he has only been with the team for six days now. I don\'t think he has even signed a contract yet. And, like everyone else has said, we didn\'t give up anything to get the guy. I don\'t see any corelation between the two guys.

You have to realize that we are going to like whoever we like, and it won\'t have anything to do with whether you want us to like the guy or not. There is a lot of time that has to pass before any sort of evaluation can be made regarding this pick, and what happens during that time will decide how most of us feel about our latest QB addition. I assure you that if any of his past problems rear their ugly head again, there will be plenty of people getting down on the dude. Most of us are willing to forget what happened before he was a Saint. If he\'s OK with the NFL, he\'s OK by me. What happens later is up to him.

GumboBC · 04-27-2005, 06:42 PM

Maybe some of my confusion has been cleared up.

So, you guys agree that it\'s not Sullivan\'s fault that 2 first round picks were given up for him. I\'m on board with that idea.

And you guys don\'t expect for Sullivan to prove he was worth 2 first round picks. (since that was not his decision and was out of his control) I\'m on board with that idea, too.

And we all agree that Sullivan has been lazy and he at least needs to play like like a first round draft pick. I\'m on board there also.

As far as Sullivan\'s mistake compared to McPhearson?

Both were extremely young and immature when they made their mistakes. Right?

Both have promised to do better. Right?

All we have is thier word. Right?

It just cost us more with Sullivan. Right?

I think we all agree, then.

[Edited on 27/4/2005 by GumboBC]

04-27-2005, 06:20 PM	#21
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Riddle me this:? Rarely do I speak on these issues but......... I blame Haz and Loomis for drafting a fat lazy person(I just can\'t call him a football player, yet) and I blame Sullivan for not producing what he and others think he can. I have to agree with some others on here that Sullivan is no more than a thief. He\'s stealing the Saints and some other poor soles(who didn\'t get drafted) money by not producing. There\'s no telling how many lives he is affecting by his actions. The boy needs to grow up. [Edited on 27/4/2005 by JOESAM2002]

04-27-2005, 06:24 PM	#22
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Riddle me this:? It\'s ALL about production. Nobody would be mad if Sully was paying dividends for us. I wasn\'t in favor of trading up for anybody and didn\'t really know who Sully was, but I wasn\'t ahppy about it then. At least when we got RW there was general consensus that we got a good player. Not true with Sully. You have lost focus on the thread not me. My statement was I\'m more likely at this point to give McPherson a chance rather than Sully because he has had his chance to produce and hasn\'t been worth what we gave and has been getting paid all along. So, what matters other than production? All I keep hearing is how Sullivan isn\'t playing up to us giving up 2 first round draft picks? Bottom line, Scotty. Who do you blame for us giving up that much for Sullivan? A. Jonathan Sullivan B. Micky Loomis and Jim Haslett You can\'t blame Sullivan for a decision that was out of his control. Sullivan had nothing to do with that. Now, if you want to covince me that Sullivan somehow was responsible for us giving up 2 first round picks, then I\'m open the idea. But, you\'re going to have to show me something that I\'m unware of. Now ... as far as production? So we expect Will Smith to be worth 2 first round draft picks? Or is Jammal Brown worth 2 first round draft picks? Of course they\'re not worth 2 first round draft picks. And neither is Sullivan. But Sullivan didn\'t demand for Haslett and Loomis to give up that much, either. That\'s all I\'m saying. To sit here and expect Sullivan to prove he\'s worth two first round draft picks is sure asking a lot. He needs to play like he\'s worth a first round pick. No need for folks to keep blaming Sullivan for Haslett and Loomis\' mistake of giving up 2 first round picks.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-27-2005, 06:29 PM	#23
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Riddle me this:? What is the point of this thread? You\'re trying to tie two parallels, that will never meet. This is a Saints board. We come here to talk Saints football. We\'ve watched over the past two years a guy getting paid alot of money to be fat and lazy, in a Saints uniform. We blame the front office for the making the pick, but blame falls on Sully for not staying in condition. McPhereson is not even under contract yet. What are we talking about again? I\'m confused.

04-27-2005, 06:30 PM	#24
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Riddle me this:? Gumbo, you have even me confused. I don\'t think anyone is saying that. The number of picks has nothing to do with whether he produces or not. The problem is, for a first rounder, you\'d think you\'d get more out of him than attacking the media buffet. But, boy he\'s hell at that.

04-27-2005, 06:34 PM	#25
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Riddle me this:? How can anyone be confused? BlackandBlue and JoeSam ... Have you guys never heard anyone blame Sullivan for not playing up to the 2 first round draft picks that were given up for him? NO? Well ... read what ScottyRo posted in this thread: Second, I\'d be shocked to know anyone didn\'t have questions about whether McPherson has truly put things behind him. The only question left for Sulivan is whether he will even be worth keeping on the team. He will never prove to be worth the 2 first round picks we gave up for him. And ScottyRo surly isn\'t the first person to make that statement. All I\'ve been saying is it\'s not Sullivan\'s fault that Loomis and Haslett gave up so much for him. Now, if you want to talk about Sullivan being lazy and whatnot .. then that\'s completely valid.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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04-27-2005, 06:35 PM	#26
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Riddle me this:? We were talking about what the Saints gave up to get Ricky Williams and Sullivan in the draft. There was NO production to go on. ..and that\'s the thing, after 2 years as a pro there is NO production to go on from Sullivan... whereas Adrian has yet to even be in the State of Louisiana...

04-27-2005, 06:37 PM	#27
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Riddle me this:? Who do you blame for us giving up that much for Sullivan? A. Jonathan Sullivan B. Micky Loomis and Jim Haslett Haz and Loomis, but that\'s not the point. To sit here and expect Sullivan to prove he\'s worth two first round draft picks is sure asking a lot. First, I said he\'d never be able to do this. Second and again, that\'s not the point. You asked essentially why Sully has a shorter leash than McPherson. Answer: We gave up more, we pay more and yet Sully produces less that what we could have ever dreamed. He\'s not even trying. At least not before this offseason. Regardless, of what McPherson has done, he hasn\'t yet hurt the team.

04-27-2005, 06:37 PM	#28
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Riddle me this:? after 2 years as a pro there is NO production to go on from Sullivan Amen.

04-27-2005, 06:42 PM	#29
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Riddle me this:? Put it this way, Gumbo. I wouldn\'t have any problem going out and eating with Sully, but when it comes to him playing for the Saints, then I don\'t like the way things have gone so far. It isn\'t personal. He has not produced for the Saints, so therefore most people are very disenchanted with him. What is so hard to understand about that? As far as MacPherson is concerned, he has only been with the team for six days now. I don\'t think he has even signed a contract yet. And, like everyone else has said, we didn\'t give up anything to get the guy. I don\'t see any corelation between the two guys. You have to realize that we are going to like whoever we like, and it won\'t have anything to do with whether you want us to like the guy or not. There is a lot of time that has to pass before any sort of evaluation can be made regarding this pick, and what happens during that time will decide how most of us feel about our latest QB addition. I assure you that if any of his past problems rear their ugly head again, there will be plenty of people getting down on the dude. Most of us are willing to forget what happened before he was a Saint. If he\'s OK with the NFL, he\'s OK by me. What happens later is up to him.
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

04-27-2005, 06:42 PM	#30
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Riddle me this:? Maybe some of my confusion has been cleared up. So, you guys agree that it\'s not Sullivan\'s fault that 2 first round picks were given up for him. I\'m on board with that idea. And you guys don\'t expect for Sullivan to prove he was worth 2 first round picks. (since that was not his decision and was out of his control) I\'m on board with that idea, too. And we all agree that Sullivan has been lazy and he at least needs to play like like a first round draft pick. I\'m on board there also. As far as Sullivan\'s mistake compared to McPhearson? Both were extremely young and immature when they made their mistakes. Right? Both have promised to do better. Right? All we have is thier word. Right? It just cost us more with Sullivan. Right? I think we all agree, then. [Edited on 27/4/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616