Mike Detillier comments. Very interesting, indeed!

GumboBC · 04-28-2005, 07:23 PM

Most any coach will tell you that it takes 3-years MINIMUM to effectively judge a draft pick.

That\'s three years if they are playing correct?

Why not just be \"logical\" instead of asking questions like this?

No, it doesn\'t mean it takes 3 years IF a player is playing.

Devery Hendeson didn\'t play last year. Stinchcomb hasn\'t played for 2-years. That has nothing to do with it.

Some players are able to play earlier due to a number of different reasons.

saintswhodi · 04-28-2005, 07:35 PM

How do I draw the comparison? Because you called Sullivan a thief. Thiefs steal things.

Deuce showed up out of shape and got hurt. We finished 26th in rushing. Would Deuce have gotten injured if he was in better shape? Impossible to say for sure.

But, we paid Deuce to show up in shape and give 100%.

Isn\'t that a \"thief\" in your book?

How much does someone need to steal before he\'s a thief in your book?

One dollar? Five? Ten? Million?

The last time I checked ... a thief was a thief?!

We finished 26th in rushing cause of a crap offense installed by our crap coordinator who is now gone. Did Deuce still go over 1000 yards? Was Deuce\'s running a big part of the reason we won the last 4 games? Did Sully have anything to do with that us winning any of those games at all? No. There\'s no comparison. But you will make one to defend players you like. Come off it. Deuce has earned every cent he has been paid. Your comparison is faulty and really not worth too much effort so this is my last word on it. If you wanna convince people Deuce and Sully are in any way shapr or form close to similar, have at it. Why don\'t you go to NFL.com and tell ne how many games an injured Deuce played in, and how many a 100% healthy Sully played in and tell me who has more.

Why not just be \"logical\" instead of asking questions like this?

No, it doesn\'t mean it takes 3 years IF a player is playing.

Devery Hendeson didn\'t play last year. Stinchcomb hasn\'t played for 2-years. That has nothing to do with it.

Some players are able to play earlier due to a number of different reasons.

What\'s no tlogical about the question? Cause it eliminates Sully? I guess that\'s it. Are you expecting Stinchcomb to come in and be a pro bowler?I am not. He hasn\'t played. I expect him to be learning when he does play, cause he has not been in game situations. But he is learning, so I expect him TO BE BETTER than when he first came in the league. Like Henderson. I expect him TO BE BETTER cause he is actually learning. I do not expect him to be a pro bowler, and if it takes longer than 3 years so be it, he didn\'t play a whole year. Sullivan on the other hand played all of year one of his career, and REGRESSED. Got worse, attitude, play, whatever. WORSE. So if anything it will take him longer than the required 3 years. Why not be logical before you ask someone to clarify things for you?

Your statement was this

Most any coach will tell you that it takes 3-years MINIMUM to effectively judge a draft pick.

How does a coach evaluate a player if that player doesn\'t play? So again, how would that make my question illogical? You think coaches evalaute players by what they do in practice and if they don\'t play in games, so be it? So what you are saying is a player could ride the bench for 3 years, and be evaluated only in practice, and coaches would them play them in the 4th year and expect them to perform at a high level with no game time cause they evaluated them in practice? Okay.

spkb25 · 04-28-2005, 09:12 PM

gumbo honestly you cant make a comparison between deuce and sully. i mean that is just silly. it isnt even apples and oranges. its more like apples and lasagna with roasted peppers and eggplant. i was hoping sully was serious about getting better. i mean i hope the guy does something or wants to. if not cut him. why not. with mcpherson he was drafted in the 5th round. he made mistakes before he was a saint and on top of that he was a kid. more then that im not even sure what he did. at least he wasnt beating his girlfriend. what he did to me wasnt that serious. i would probally worry more about the guy that keeps having his name involved in beating women or raping them. thats just me.

LKelley67 · 04-29-2005, 12:52 AM

another good thread. it seems there is a little more civility than of late. that draft thing does escalate the emotions i believe. and rightly so for passionate fans. sorry for not contributing more this week. i really am still coming to grips with the draft. i appreciate the effort that goes into many of these thoughtful discussions, partaking or not.

not as any mr. meassge board guy or anything i do have one comment about how discussions have gone that might be helpful generally. that is, i think there will be much more productive dialogue if there is restraint from telling other people what they think. \"you said this so you think this\" lines more often stir ire rather than create constructive interchange. if questioning someone\'s viewpoint ask a question, don\'t put their answers in a blank for them. contesting or refuting another is most effective when not nitpicking the other\'s words but in presenting sound logical rebuttals.
not football talk but a respectful atmosphere (no matter how vast the differences are) will make for a better and more attractive board.

JKool · 04-29-2005, 10:04 AM

I suggest that we take Kelley\'s suggestion to heart.

yasoon · 04-29-2005, 10:28 AM

Deuce didn\'t get hurt because he was out of shape, he got hurt because his linemen got out of the way and let a couple of 49ers twist his leg in half. Let\'s see.....one of the more successful backs this team has had vs one of the biggest busts they\'ve had. It just isn\'t in the same ballpark. I can\'t believe i even addressed it.

There is a very simple and clear distinction between AMac and Sully, and any draft expert will tell you this. 5th round steal vs. 1st round reach.....period. End of discussion. If we would have gone for Adrian in the 1st round, and he got caught stealing from the locker room next year, there would be a parallel. We paid a high price for Sully and have gotten nothing. Anything we get from Adrian will be gravy. His upside is tremendous as a 5th rounder. And you freakin send him packing if he acts up......without any cap hit to boot. I don\'t see why this is even a discussion.

04-28-2005, 07:23 PM	#31
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Mike Detillier comments. Very interesting, indeed! Most any coach will tell you that it takes 3-years MINIMUM to effectively judge a draft pick. That\'s three years if they are playing correct? Why not just be \"logical\" instead of asking questions like this? No, it doesn\'t mean it takes 3 years IF a player is playing. Devery Hendeson didn\'t play last year. Stinchcomb hasn\'t played for 2-years. That has nothing to do with it. Some players are able to play earlier due to a number of different reasons.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-28-2005, 07:35 PM	#32
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Mike Detillier comments. Very interesting, indeed! How do I draw the comparison? Because you called Sullivan a thief. Thiefs steal things. Deuce showed up out of shape and got hurt. We finished 26th in rushing. Would Deuce have gotten injured if he was in better shape? Impossible to say for sure. But, we paid Deuce to show up in shape and give 100%. Isn\'t that a \"thief\" in your book? How much does someone need to steal before he\'s a thief in your book? One dollar? Five? Ten? Million? The last time I checked ... a thief was a thief?! We finished 26th in rushing cause of a crap offense installed by our crap coordinator who is now gone. Did Deuce still go over 1000 yards? Was Deuce\'s running a big part of the reason we won the last 4 games? Did Sully have anything to do with that us winning any of those games at all? No. There\'s no comparison. But you will make one to defend players you like. Come off it. Deuce has earned every cent he has been paid. Your comparison is faulty and really not worth too much effort so this is my last word on it. If you wanna convince people Deuce and Sully are in any way shapr or form close to similar, have at it. Why don\'t you go to NFL.com and tell ne how many games an injured Deuce played in, and how many a 100% healthy Sully played in and tell me who has more. Why not just be \"logical\" instead of asking questions like this? No, it doesn\'t mean it takes 3 years IF a player is playing. Devery Hendeson didn\'t play last year. Stinchcomb hasn\'t played for 2-years. That has nothing to do with it. Some players are able to play earlier due to a number of different reasons. What\'s no tlogical about the question? Cause it eliminates Sully? I guess that\'s it. Are you expecting Stinchcomb to come in and be a pro bowler?I am not. He hasn\'t played. I expect him to be learning when he does play, cause he has not been in game situations. But he is learning, so I expect him TO BE BETTER than when he first came in the league. Like Henderson. I expect him TO BE BETTER cause he is actually learning. I do not expect him to be a pro bowler, and if it takes longer than 3 years so be it, he didn\'t play a whole year. Sullivan on the other hand played all of year one of his career, and REGRESSED. Got worse, attitude, play, whatever. WORSE. So if anything it will take him longer than the required 3 years. Why not be logical before you ask someone to clarify things for you? Your statement was this Most any coach will tell you that it takes 3-years MINIMUM to effectively judge a draft pick. How does a coach evaluate a player if that player doesn\'t play? So again, how would that make my question illogical? You think coaches evalaute players by what they do in practice and if they don\'t play in games, so be it? So what you are saying is a player could ride the bench for 3 years, and be evaluated only in practice, and coaches would them play them in the 4th year and expect them to perform at a high level with no game time cause they evaluated them in practice? Okay.

04-28-2005, 09:12 PM	#33
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,097	Mike Detillier comments. Very interesting, indeed! gumbo honestly you cant make a comparison between deuce and sully. i mean that is just silly. it isnt even apples and oranges. its more like apples and lasagna with roasted peppers and eggplant. i was hoping sully was serious about getting better. i mean i hope the guy does something or wants to. if not cut him. why not. with mcpherson he was drafted in the 5th round. he made mistakes before he was a saint and on top of that he was a kid. more then that im not even sure what he did. at least he wasnt beating his girlfriend. what he did to me wasnt that serious. i would probally worry more about the guy that keeps having his name involved in beating women or raping them. thats just me.
	Your team stinks

04-29-2005, 12:52 AM	#34
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Mike Detillier comments. Very interesting, indeed! another good thread. it seems there is a little more civility than of late. that draft thing does escalate the emotions i believe. and rightly so for passionate fans. sorry for not contributing more this week. i really am still coming to grips with the draft. i appreciate the effort that goes into many of these thoughtful discussions, partaking or not. not as any mr. meassge board guy or anything i do have one comment about how discussions have gone that might be helpful generally. that is, i think there will be much more productive dialogue if there is restraint from telling other people what they think. \"you said this so you think this\" lines more often stir ire rather than create constructive interchange. if questioning someone\'s viewpoint ask a question, don\'t put their answers in a blank for them. contesting or refuting another is most effective when not nitpicking the other\'s words but in presenting sound logical rebuttals. not football talk but a respectful atmosphere (no matter how vast the differences are) will make for a better and more attractive board.

04-29-2005, 10:04 AM	#35
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Mike Detillier comments. Very interesting, indeed! I suggest that we take Kelley\'s suggestion to heart.

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04-29-2005, 10:28 AM	#36
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Mike Detillier comments. Very interesting, indeed! Deuce didn\'t get hurt because he was out of shape, he got hurt because his linemen got out of the way and let a couple of 49ers twist his leg in half. Let\'s see.....one of the more successful backs this team has had vs one of the biggest busts they\'ve had. It just isn\'t in the same ballpark. I can\'t believe i even addressed it. There is a very simple and clear distinction between AMac and Sully, and any draft expert will tell you this. 5th round steal vs. 1st round reach.....period. End of discussion. If we would have gone for Adrian in the 1st round, and he got caught stealing from the locker room next year, there would be a parallel. We paid a high price for Sully and have gotten nothing. Anything we get from Adrian will be gravy. His upside is tremendous as a 5th rounder. And you freakin send him packing if he acts up......without any cap hit to boot. I don\'t see why this is even a discussion.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594