DJ vs. Finch - a comparison

Danno · 04-30-2005, 06:10 PM

Guess who this is a description of, and tell if you think he sounds \"not so tough\":

Positives: Terrific all-around athlete with outstanding stamina and endurance. Big, strong, fast and agile. Tough and instinctive with outstanding intangibles. Top competitor. Extremely versatile. Has the best hands on the team and is his teamÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s best special-teams player and tackler. Was superimpressive at the Combine and was the only one of the potential lottery picks to do all the drills.

Negatives: In a game of specialization, he really has never been locked into a position. Is more of a hybrid type who can play almost everywhere and loves to play all three phases of the game. As a result, he has not fully mastered a position. Would appear to be best suited to be an outside ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢backer, but he has never really played there on a full-time basis. May be a little too big for safety in the NFL and has a lot to learn about blocking if you want to play him at tight end.

Source: http://archive.profootballweekly.com...coutingreports

Link doesn\'t work. But I\'m guessing Ray Lewis?

GumboBC · 04-30-2005, 06:12 PM

JKool --

I don\'t know who they are speaking of. Ray Lewis? Who knows.

Here\'s the thing about Watson that concerns me (or that I don\'t like)

Produces a lot of arm and drag-down tackles and needs to do a better job of staying low in his pads to stalk, wrap and secure ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦

To me, that suggests that Watson either:

a) uses bad technique when tackling or (b) doesn\'t like to hit and prefers to arm tackle.

Also, I had a full year to watch Watson as a Saint. And based on my personal observation, Watson looks like he\'d rather arm taclke than be physical.

All of these player profiles are nice, and I enjoy reading them. I think they tend to be accurate on their observations more times than not.

I\'ve said from day one that I thought Watson would be better at WLB. Watson has great speed to make plays from sideline to sideline.

Albert Fincher looks to be more physical than Watson. Being physical isn\'t always about how big and tall someone is.

Mike Tyson was much smaller than some of his opponents, but he was a much bigger hitter.

So, while there might not be much difference in the size of Fincher and Watson, there seems to be a MUCH different playing style.

JKool · 04-30-2005, 06:22 PM

(1) I take your point on observations Billy. However, I think a kid who is new on the inside, with an inconsistent (and not that great) set of DTs in front of him, may have some trouble adjusting, don\'t you? I\'m not going to sell Watson out yet.

Notice also this:

Hard hitter who is better as a drag-down tackler than one who wraps

It is listed as a STRENGTH. I think we may be misunderstanding the scout\'s notion of \"drag-down\"?

(2) The answer was Urlacher. I\'ll see if I can find the link again, and repost it so it will work.

[Edited on 30/4/2005 by JKool]

GumboBC · 04-30-2005, 06:27 PM

JKool --

I hope you don\'t take this the wrong way ... but ... how can you possibly say this:

The best reason to move him to WLB is this: WLB is the playmaker and stud position of the LBs, and Watson is a stud LB.

Watson is a stud linebacker? How did he go from an unproven rookie MLB to a \"stud\" linebacker? Was it our 32 ranked defense that sold you on him? Was it all of the outstanding plays you \"observed\" him making? Was it the player \"profiles\" that convinced you?

What makes you say Watson is a \"stud\" linebacker?

I\'m a bit curious. Maybe I\'m missing something?

[Edited on 30/4/2005 by GumboBC]

JKool · 04-30-2005, 07:07 PM

Billy, I was just having some fun with you.

My point was this, though I don\'t see that it has much to do with anything: it is my view that WLB is a playmaking position - that is why many of the greatest LBs of all time have played it. Thus, any suggestion that a player should be moved to or is suited to the WLB, that is NOT a knock against him, but rather it is a compliment.

I seem to have more faith in Watson than you, but I certainly don\'t think he is proven LB yet. I do believe that he is the best LB currently on our roster, though.

FireVenturi · 04-30-2005, 08:00 PM

anybody think fincher could be a possible Rookie of the Year??? i think he will start and be very productive but miss out on rookie of the year to someone in a bigger market!!!!!

stedog22 · 04-30-2005, 08:04 PM

1) I take your point on observations Billy. However, I think a kid who is new on the inside, with an inconsistent (and not that great) set of DTs in front of him, may have some trouble adjusting, don\'t you

I posted a profile of Fincher with this strengh

He uses his prototypical size to literally swallow congestion up the middle. Fincher isnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢t the type to rely on solid interior lineman hogging blockers

in another post awhile back and this makes me like Fincher in our situation at MLB and Watson at WLB

Now I\'ve never seen the guy play but the more I read I get excited about having a possible real MLB

Tobias-Reiper · 04-30-2005, 08:09 PM

..the more I read and hear about Fincher, the more I want to see this young man on the field...

... thinking of a Watson-Fincher-Colby LB corps, and the possibility of Adrian ... man I am almost getting excited about next season...

saintswhodi · 04-30-2005, 09:21 PM

Guess who this is:

Positives: Has the frame to add more bulk with no loss in quicknessÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Very instinctive player with good vision and ball anticipation abilityÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Quickly locates the ball and is very aggressive vs. the inside runÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Has a strong upper body, utilizing that power to take on and shed to make the playÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Uses his hands well to take on and shed blocksÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Knows how to reroute and disengage from the tight end in the short area.

Negatives: Gets turned around some when redirecting inside as he tends to lose leverage by leaning into blocks with his wrong shoulderÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Takes bad angles working inside the box, appearing more comfortable chasing down to make the tackleÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Has had back problems in the pastÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Has very thin ankles and slender calves.

CAREER NOTES: Finished his career with 197 tackles (133 solos), seven sacks for minus 53 yards and 20 stops for losses of 86 yardsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Caused three fumbles, deflected seven passes and intercepted two others.

Here are some measurables for the same player:

* Ht: 6\'3\"
* Wt: 240
* 40-time: 4.64
* 20-yard dash: 2.63
* 10-yard dash: 1.67
* Three-cone drill: 7.59
* Vertical jump: 38\"
* Broad jump: 10\'6\"
* Bench press: 350
* Squat: 490

Also thought I would consult ESPN on his Fincher\'s weaknesses. The person above is not him obviously.

Weaknesses: Lacks ideal athleticism. Has adequate straight-line speed but marginal lateral mobility. Does not possess good range versus the run. Has trouble recovering after taking a false step. Has stiff hips and struggles to change directions. Loses too much in transition when he stops and starts. Lacks the athleticism, fluidity and speed to cover most NFL RB\'s one-on-one. Also has marginal range for zone coverage in the NFL.

IF you have INSIDER, you can read it there: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/...2=stateChanged

Few more negatives that was listed here. But you can still guess who the first guy is. He sounds pretty good.

[Edited on 1/5/2005 by saintswhodi]

JKool · 04-30-2005, 09:39 PM

Is the person Orlando Ruff?

04-30-2005, 06:10 PM	#11
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison Guess who this is a description of, and tell if you think he sounds \"not so tough\": Positives: Terrific all-around athlete with outstanding stamina and endurance. Big, strong, fast and agile. Tough and instinctive with outstanding intangibles. Top competitor. Extremely versatile. Has the best hands on the team and is his teamÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s best special-teams player and tackler. Was superimpressive at the Combine and was the only one of the potential lottery picks to do all the drills. Negatives: In a game of specialization, he really has never been locked into a position. Is more of a hybrid type who can play almost everywhere and loves to play all three phases of the game. As a result, he has not fully mastered a position. Would appear to be best suited to be an outside ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢backer, but he has never really played there on a full-time basis. May be a little too big for safety in the NFL and has a lot to learn about blocking if you want to play him at tight end. Source: http://archive.profootballweekly.com...coutingreports Link doesn\'t work. But I\'m guessing Ray Lewis?

04-30-2005, 06:12 PM	#12
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison JKool -- I don\'t know who they are speaking of. Ray Lewis? Who knows. Here\'s the thing about Watson that concerns me (or that I don\'t like) Produces a lot of arm and drag-down tackles and needs to do a better job of staying low in his pads to stalk, wrap and secure ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦ To me, that suggests that Watson either: a) uses bad technique when tackling or (b) doesn\'t like to hit and prefers to arm tackle. Also, I had a full year to watch Watson as a Saint. And based on my personal observation, Watson looks like he\'d rather arm taclke than be physical. All of these player profiles are nice, and I enjoy reading them. I think they tend to be accurate on their observations more times than not. I\'ve said from day one that I thought Watson would be better at WLB. Watson has great speed to make plays from sideline to sideline. Albert Fincher looks to be more physical than Watson. Being physical isn\'t always about how big and tall someone is. Mike Tyson was much smaller than some of his opponents, but he was a much bigger hitter. So, while there might not be much difference in the size of Fincher and Watson, there seems to be a MUCH different playing style.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-30-2005, 06:22 PM	#13
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison (1) I take your point on observations Billy. However, I think a kid who is new on the inside, with an inconsistent (and not that great) set of DTs in front of him, may have some trouble adjusting, don\'t you? I\'m not going to sell Watson out yet. Notice also this: Hard hitter who is better as a drag-down tackler than one who wraps It is listed as a STRENGTH. I think we may be misunderstanding the scout\'s notion of \"drag-down\"? (2) The answer was Urlacher. I\'ll see if I can find the link again, and repost it so it will work. [Edited on 30/4/2005 by JKool]

04-30-2005, 06:27 PM	#14
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison JKool -- I hope you don\'t take this the wrong way ... but ... how can you possibly say this: The best reason to move him to WLB is this: WLB is the playmaker and stud position of the LBs, and Watson is a stud LB. Watson is a stud linebacker? How did he go from an unproven rookie MLB to a \"stud\" linebacker? Was it our 32 ranked defense that sold you on him? Was it all of the outstanding plays you \"observed\" him making? Was it the player \"profiles\" that convinced you? What makes you say Watson is a \"stud\" linebacker? I\'m a bit curious. Maybe I\'m missing something? [Edited on 30/4/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-30-2005, 07:07 PM	#15
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison Billy, I was just having some fun with you. My point was this, though I don\'t see that it has much to do with anything: it is my view that WLB is a playmaking position - that is why many of the greatest LBs of all time have played it. Thus, any suggestion that a player should be moved to or is suited to the WLB, that is NOT a knock against him, but rather it is a compliment. I seem to have more faith in Watson than you, but I certainly don\'t think he is proven LB yet. I do believe that he is the best LB currently on our roster, though.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

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04-30-2005, 08:00 PM	#16
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison anybody think fincher could be a possible Rookie of the Year??? i think he will start and be very productive but miss out on rookie of the year to someone in a bigger market!!!!!

04-30-2005, 08:04 PM	#17
stedog22 Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 17	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison 1) I take your point on observations Billy. However, I think a kid who is new on the inside, with an inconsistent (and not that great) set of DTs in front of him, may have some trouble adjusting, don\'t you I posted a profile of Fincher with this strengh He uses his prototypical size to literally swallow congestion up the middle. Fincher isnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢t the type to rely on solid interior lineman hogging blockers in another post awhile back and this makes me like Fincher in our situation at MLB and Watson at WLB Now I\'ve never seen the guy play but the more I read I get excited about having a possible real MLB
stedog22 Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 17

04-30-2005, 08:09 PM	#18
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison ..the more I read and hear about Fincher, the more I want to see this young man on the field... ... thinking of a Watson-Fincher-Colby LB corps, and the possibility of Adrian ... man I am almost getting excited about next season...

04-30-2005, 09:21 PM	#19
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison Guess who this is: Positives: Has the frame to add more bulk with no loss in quicknessÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Very instinctive player with good vision and ball anticipation abilityÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Quickly locates the ball and is very aggressive vs. the inside runÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Has a strong upper body, utilizing that power to take on and shed to make the playÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Uses his hands well to take on and shed blocksÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Knows how to reroute and disengage from the tight end in the short area. Negatives: Gets turned around some when redirecting inside as he tends to lose leverage by leaning into blocks with his wrong shoulderÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Takes bad angles working inside the box, appearing more comfortable chasing down to make the tackleÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Has had back problems in the pastÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Has very thin ankles and slender calves. CAREER NOTES: Finished his career with 197 tackles (133 solos), seven sacks for minus 53 yards and 20 stops for losses of 86 yardsÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã‚Â¦Caused three fumbles, deflected seven passes and intercepted two others. Here are some measurables for the same player: * Ht: 6\'3\" * Wt: 240 * 40-time: 4.64 * 20-yard dash: 2.63 * 10-yard dash: 1.67 * Three-cone drill: 7.59 * Vertical jump: 38\" * Broad jump: 10\'6\" * Bench press: 350 * Squat: 490 Also thought I would consult ESPN on his Fincher\'s weaknesses. The person above is not him obviously. Weaknesses: Lacks ideal athleticism. Has adequate straight-line speed but marginal lateral mobility. Does not possess good range versus the run. Has trouble recovering after taking a false step. Has stiff hips and struggles to change directions. Loses too much in transition when he stops and starts. Lacks the athleticism, fluidity and speed to cover most NFL RB\'s one-on-one. Also has marginal range for zone coverage in the NFL. IF you have INSIDER, you can read it there: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/...2=stateChanged Few more negatives that was listed here. But you can still guess who the first guy is. He sounds pretty good. [Edited on 1/5/2005 by saintswhodi]

04-30-2005, 09:39 PM	#20
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	DJ vs. Finch - a comparison Is the person Orlando Ruff?