NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy

rezburna · 07-12-2018, 07:30 AM

What’s more American than a union filing a grievance on behalf of its members? I thought that was the right way to do it. Maybe they should throw some tea in the ocean and actually go to war with those who oppose them. That message is well understood.

burningmetal · 07-12-2018, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

What’s more American than a union filing a grievance on behalf of its members? I thought that was the right way to do it. Maybe they should throw some tea in the ocean and actually go to war with those who oppose them. That message is well understood.

There is nothing strictly American about a union, in general. Unions tend to hold people hostage for no other reason than the fact that they CAN, and it's how they get what they want. There is little integrity in any union. If you have a grievance, then show just cause. If you can't do that, then I don't owe you respect just because you believe it's your right to complain about any and everything.

rezburna · 07-12-2018, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

There is nothing strictly American about a union, in general. Unions tend to hold people hostage for no other reason than the fact that they CAN, and it's how they get what they want. There is little integrity in any union. If you have a grievance, then show just cause. If you can't do that, then I don't owe you respect just because you believe it's your right to complain about any and everything.

Companies do the same. They have a grievance, and they’re attempting to show just cause for it. That’s the whole point of filing it. They DO have a right to do this just like you have a right to not like it. I find all the complaints about it to be disingenuous. People run around this country with Confederate flags...an entity that was directly opposed to the United States of America...so much so that they went to war over it. But that’s cool though...that’s no disrespect to America/Americans. This though? Call the National Guard!! The inmates are on the loose!

burningmetal · 07-12-2018, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Companies do the same. They have a grievance, and they’re attempting to show just cause for it. That’s the whole point of filing it. They DO have a right to do this just like you have a right to not like it. I find all the complaints about it to be disingenuous. People run around this country with Confederate flags...an entity that was directly opposed to the United States of America...so much so that they went to war over it. But that’s cool though...that’s no disrespect to America/Americans. This though? Call the National Guard!! The inmates are on the loose!

Companies do the same? Do they lock their employees out to get them to accept less? No, but unions stop all operations because they want MORE. I'm fine with filing a grievance if you have A REASON. A legitimate reason. Unions are all about "give me more, because I want more". There are higher paying jobs if you want more. Your company is going to make you an offer, and you accept that offer when start working for them. We can all complain that we "deserve" more, but the company, or business, is under no obligation to raise your pay. A lot of people are affected when employees strike, including a lot of people who don't want to go on strike but are forced by their union.

Your Confederate flag statement is completely false. The Confederate flag represented the Confederate states. Very few people owned slaves. 10% or less, in fact. If you knew your history, you'd know that the war was not started over slavery. That was a political ploy that Abraham Lincoln used later, when the British were ready to come to the aide of the Confederates. Lincoln used this smear tactic to dissuade the British from "getting their hands dirty", so to speak. Lincoln, himself, was on record as supporting the right to own slaves during his time as a Senator. Did you know that? Still think it was a war on slavery?

The fact is that the Confederate states wanted to secede from the Union, and Lincoln wanted to block their constitutional right to do so. He did not want to lose power over these states. THAT is what started the war, and THAT is what was worth fighting for. Not owning slaves. That was something that only a minority of people were the least bit concerned in protecting.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-12-2018, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Companies do the same? Do they lock their employees out to get them to accept less? No,

Um, you were saying? From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_lockout

The 2011 National Football League Player lockout was a work stoppage imposed by the owners of the NFL's 32 teams that lasted from March 12, 2011, to July 25, 2011. When the owners and the NFL players, represented by the National Football League Players Association, could not come to a consensus on a new collective bargaining agreement, the owners locked out the players from team facilities and shut down league operations. The major issues disputed were the salary cap, players' safety and health benefits, revenue sharing and television contracts, transparency of financial information, rookie salaries, season length, and free agency guidelines. During the 18-week, 4-day period, there was no free agency and training camp, and players were restricted from seeing team doctors, entering or working out at team facilities, or communicating with coaches. The end of the lockout coincided with the formation of a new collective bargaining agreement prior to the start of the 2011 regular season.

SFIAH

saintfan · 07-12-2018, 10:26 AM

There is a mountain of evidence to suggest (indicate) that black people are over-represented in the criminal justice system.

Full stop. Rezburna is 110% on target.

I don't line up with the "Company/Union" comparison and I disagree with the statement that the Confederate Flag directly opposed the United States of America. The water under these bridges is deep and swift, and so these kinds of blanket statements do a disservice to the debate. That's just what I think. Opinions vary.

Sawmmi's "Simple Solution" is rhetoric. I happen to agree that these kinds of statements and the mentality of those who make them are a significant road block to a peaceful end because it insinuates a view wherein it is okay to beat and kill a black american with the protection of law enforcement. There are no more slave patrols. Full stop.

Black people, on average, do not get the same level of presumed innocence that Whites or even Hispanics receive. No doubt racism plays a role, but so too does the mindset and actions of the suspects/victims. Where these factors merge, in my opinion anyway, is where the real debate needs to happen. Both sides have to recognize some responsibility, and I am not convinced either side is willing.

Back to topic - the NFL is stupid and could very easily correct the problem but flatly refuses because it is trying to protect its bottom line. Welcome to America...

burningmetal · 07-12-2018, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

There is a mountain of evidence to suggest (indicate) that black people are over-represented in the criminal justice system.

Full stop. Rezburna is 110% on target.

I don't line up with the "Company/Union" comparison and I disagree with the statement that the Confederate Flag directly opposed the United States of America. The water under these bridges is deep and swift, and so these kinds of blanket statements do a disservice to the debate. That's just what I think. Opinions vary.

Sawmmi's "Simple Solution" is rhetoric. I happen to agree that these kinds of statements and the mentality of those who make them are a significant road block to a peaceful end because it insinuates a view wherein it is okay to beat and kill a black american with the protection of law enforcement. There are no more slave patrols. Full stop.

Black people, on average, do not get the same level of presumed innocence that Whites or even Hispanics receive. No doubt racism plays a role, but so too does the mindset and actions of the suspects/victims. Where these factors merge, in my opinion anyway, is where the real debate needs to happen. Both sides have to recognize some responsibility, and I am not convinced either side is willing.

Back to topic - the NFL is stupid and could very easily correct the problem but flatly refuses because it is trying to protect its bottom line. Welcome to America...

Over represented how? Because there are more blacks in jail, are you presuming that this is evidence of prejudice? The crime rates don't back up that black representation in prison is disproportionate to the number of crimes they are committing. Where are these mountains of evidence?

CheramieIII · 07-12-2018, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

The NFL Players Association filed a grievance with the league on Tuesday challenging its national anthem policy.

The union says that the new policy, which the league imposed without consultation with the NFLPA, is inconsistent with the collective bargaining agreement and infringes on players’ rights.

In May, the NFL approved its national anthem policy at its owners’ meetings in Atlanta. The policy allows players to protest during the national anthem by staying in the locker room, but forbids them from sitting or taking a knee if they’re on the field or the sidelines.

Teams will be subject to fines if players don’t comply and will have the option of punishing players.

When the league announced the policy, commissioner Roger Goodell called it a compromise aimed at putting the focus back on football after a tumultuous year in which television ratings dipped nearly 10 percent; some blamed the protests for such a drop. The union said at that time that it would file a grievance against any change in the collective bargaining agreement.

Read more on The Boston Globe

This should be the bargain. We pay you, you play, the fans watch us, we get paid, rinse and repeat. I say let them all strike again and see how much that helps them now. When teams can't afford to pay 20 million to some overrated running back then I guess they would be fine with a 15 million a year pay cut.

Rugby Saint II · 07-12-2018, 01:31 PM

They are paid athletes playing on the company dime. Conform during work hours......discussing politics is just a bad idea at work and almost always leads to problems. Especially when your audience is so diversified.

I guess it's time for the different religions to take a stand(or kneel) and get the attention on the player for the moment.

Rugby Saint II · 07-12-2018, 01:32 PM

They are paid athletes playing on the company dime. Conform during work hours......discussing politics is just a bad idea at work and almost always leads to problems. Especially when your audience is so diversified.

I guess it's time for the different religions to take a stand(or kneel) and get the attention on the player for the moment.

07-12-2018, 07:30 AM	#1
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,999	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy What’s more American than a union filing a grievance on behalf of its members? I thought that was the right way to do it. Maybe they should throw some tea in the ocean and actually go to war with those who oppose them. That message is well understood. skymike likes this.

07-12-2018, 07:38 AM	#2
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy Originally Posted by rezburna What’s more American than a union filing a grievance on behalf of its members? I thought that was the right way to do it. Maybe they should throw some tea in the ocean and actually go to war with those who oppose them. That message is well understood. There is nothing strictly American about a union, in general. Unions tend to hold people hostage for no other reason than the fact that they CAN, and it's how they get what they want. There is little integrity in any union. If you have a grievance, then show just cause. If you can't do that, then I don't owe you respect just because you believe it's your right to complain about any and everything.

07-12-2018, 07:54 AM	#3
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,999	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy Originally Posted by burningmetal There is nothing strictly American about a union, in general. Unions tend to hold people hostage for no other reason than the fact that they CAN, and it's how they get what they want. There is little integrity in any union. If you have a grievance, then show just cause. If you can't do that, then I don't owe you respect just because you believe it's your right to complain about any and everything. Companies do the same. They have a grievance, and they’re attempting to show just cause for it. That’s the whole point of filing it. They DO have a right to do this just like you have a right to not like it. I find all the complaints about it to be disingenuous. People run around this country with Confederate flags...an entity that was directly opposed to the United States of America...so much so that they went to war over it. But that’s cool though...that’s no disrespect to America/Americans. This though? Call the National Guard!! The inmates are on the loose! Rugby Saint II likes this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

07-12-2018, 05:23 PM	#4
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy Originally Posted by rezburna Companies do the same. They have a grievance, and they’re attempting to show just cause for it. That’s the whole point of filing it. They DO have a right to do this just like you have a right to not like it. I find all the complaints about it to be disingenuous. People run around this country with Confederate flags...an entity that was directly opposed to the United States of America...so much so that they went to war over it. But that’s cool though...that’s no disrespect to America/Americans. This though? Call the National Guard!! The inmates are on the loose! Companies do the same? Do they lock their employees out to get them to accept less? No, but unions stop all operations because they want MORE. I'm fine with filing a grievance if you have A REASON. A legitimate reason. Unions are all about "give me more, because I want more". There are higher paying jobs if you want more. Your company is going to make you an offer, and you accept that offer when start working for them. We can all complain that we "deserve" more, but the company, or business, is under no obligation to raise your pay. A lot of people are affected when employees strike, including a lot of people who don't want to go on strike but are forced by their union. Your Confederate flag statement is completely false. The Confederate flag represented the Confederate states. Very few people owned slaves. 10% or less, in fact. If you knew your history, you'd know that the war was not started over slavery. That was a political ploy that Abraham Lincoln used later, when the British were ready to come to the aide of the Confederates. Lincoln used this smear tactic to dissuade the British from "getting their hands dirty", so to speak. Lincoln, himself, was on record as supporting the right to own slaves during his time as a Senator. Did you know that? Still think it was a war on slavery? The fact is that the Confederate states wanted to secede from the Union, and Lincoln wanted to block their constitutional right to do so. He did not want to lose power over these states. THAT is what started the war, and THAT is what was worth fighting for. Not owning slaves. That was something that only a minority of people were the least bit concerned in protecting.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

07-12-2018, 05:41 PM	#5
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,781	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy Originally Posted by burningmetal Companies do the same? Do they lock their employees out to get them to accept less? No, Um, you were saying? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_lockout The 2011 National Football League Player lockout was a work stoppage imposed by the owners of the NFL's 32 teams that lasted from March 12, 2011, to July 25, 2011. When the owners and the NFL players, represented by the National Football League Players Association, could not come to a consensus on a new collective bargaining agreement, the owners locked out the players from team facilities and shut down league operations. The major issues disputed were the salary cap, players' safety and health benefits, revenue sharing and television contracts, transparency of financial information, rookie salaries, season length, and free agency guidelines. During the 18-week, 4-day period, there was no free agency and training camp, and players were restricted from seeing team doctors, entering or working out at team facilities, or communicating with coaches. The end of the lockout coincided with the formation of a new collective bargaining agreement prior to the start of the 2011 regular season. SFIAH

07-12-2018, 10:26 AM	#6
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy There is a mountain of evidence to suggest (indicate) that black people are over-represented in the criminal justice system. Full stop. Rezburna is 110% on target. I don't line up with the "Company/Union" comparison and I disagree with the statement that the Confederate Flag directly opposed the United States of America. The water under these bridges is deep and swift, and so these kinds of blanket statements do a disservice to the debate. That's just what I think. Opinions vary. Sawmmi's "Simple Solution" is rhetoric. I happen to agree that these kinds of statements and the mentality of those who make them are a significant road block to a peaceful end because it insinuates a view wherein it is okay to beat and kill a black american with the protection of law enforcement. There are no more slave patrols. Full stop. Black people, on average, do not get the same level of presumed innocence that Whites or even Hispanics receive. No doubt racism plays a role, but so too does the mindset and actions of the suspects/victims. Where these factors merge, in my opinion anyway, is where the real debate needs to happen. Both sides have to recognize some responsibility, and I am not convinced either side is willing. Back to topic - the NFL is stupid and could very easily correct the problem but flatly refuses because it is trying to protect its bottom line. Welcome to America... Rugby Saint II and frydaddy like this.
	C'mon Man... Last edited by saintfan; 07-12-2018 at 10:41 AM..

07-12-2018, 05:54 PM	#7
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy Originally Posted by saintfan There is a mountain of evidence to suggest (indicate) that black people are over-represented in the criminal justice system. Full stop. Rezburna is 110% on target. I don't line up with the "Company/Union" comparison and I disagree with the statement that the Confederate Flag directly opposed the United States of America. The water under these bridges is deep and swift, and so these kinds of blanket statements do a disservice to the debate. That's just what I think. Opinions vary. Sawmmi's "Simple Solution" is rhetoric. I happen to agree that these kinds of statements and the mentality of those who make them are a significant road block to a peaceful end because it insinuates a view wherein it is okay to beat and kill a black american with the protection of law enforcement. There are no more slave patrols. Full stop. Black people, on average, do not get the same level of presumed innocence that Whites or even Hispanics receive. No doubt racism plays a role, but so too does the mindset and actions of the suspects/victims. Where these factors merge, in my opinion anyway, is where the real debate needs to happen. Both sides have to recognize some responsibility, and I am not convinced either side is willing. Back to topic - the NFL is stupid and could very easily correct the problem but flatly refuses because it is trying to protect its bottom line. Welcome to America... Over represented how? Because there are more blacks in jail, are you presuming that this is evidence of prejudice? The crime rates don't back up that black representation in prison is disproportionate to the number of crimes they are committing. Where are these mountains of evidence?

07-12-2018, 01:10 PM	#8
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,489 Blog Entries: 3	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy Originally Posted by SmashMouth The NFL Players Association filed a grievance with the league on Tuesday challenging its national anthem policy. The union says that the new policy, which the league imposed without consultation with the NFLPA, is inconsistent with the collective bargaining agreement and infringes on players’ rights. In May, the NFL approved its national anthem policy at its owners’ meetings in Atlanta. The policy allows players to protest during the national anthem by staying in the locker room, but forbids them from sitting or taking a knee if they’re on the field or the sidelines. Teams will be subject to fines if players don’t comply and will have the option of punishing players. When the league announced the policy, commissioner Roger Goodell called it a compromise aimed at putting the focus back on football after a tumultuous year in which television ratings dipped nearly 10 percent; some blamed the protests for such a drop. The union said at that time that it would file a grievance against any change in the collective bargaining agreement. Read more on The Boston Globe This should be the bargain. We pay you, you play, the fans watch us, we get paid, rinse and repeat. I say let them all strike again and see how much that helps them now. When teams can't afford to pay 20 million to some overrated running back then I guess they would be fine with a 15 million a year pay cut.

07-12-2018, 01:31 PM	#9
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,117	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy They are paid athletes playing on the company dime. Conform during work hours......discussing politics is just a bad idea at work and almost always leads to problems. Especially when your audience is so diversified. I guess it's time for the different religions to take a stand(or kneel) and get the attention on the player for the moment. WhoDatLucky likes this.

07-12-2018, 01:32 PM	#10
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,117	Re: NFL Players Association files grievance challenging national anthem policy They are paid athletes playing on the company dime. Conform during work hours......discussing politics is just a bad idea at work and almost always leads to problems. Especially when your audience is so diversified. I guess it's time for the different religions to take a stand(or kneel) and get the attention on the player for the moment.

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