QB Controversy

burningmetal · 12-31-2018, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

Offense had to get the lead for the defense to protect.

I guess it's stupid for me to post in the Saints forum, since certain people will say "you don't have the right", but, whatever. I just saw this comment and I can't help but reply.

Regardless of any controversy or no controversy, it just doesn't make any sense to say that the offense had to give the team a lead to protect. Who protected the lead, if they won a game while scoring 12 points? The offense? Not quite.

The extent to which people will go to protect the "sacred" ground Brees walks on has always amazed me. And I'm not doggin' on the guy, either. But there has to be a limit somewhere.

WhoDat!656 · 12-31-2018, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I guess it's stupid for me to post in the Saints forum, since certain people will say "you don't have the right", but, whatever. I just saw this comment and I can't help but reply.

Regardless of any controversy or no controversy, it just doesn't make any sense to say that the offense had to give the team a lead to protect. Who protected the lead, if they won a game while scoring 12 points? The offense? Not quite.

The extent to which people will go to protect the "sacred" ground Brees walks on has always amazed me. And I'm not doggin' on the guy, either. But there has to be a limit somewhere.

How soon we forget the years when the offense had to score like a pinball machine because the defense couldn't protect a lead.

burningmetal · 12-31-2018, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

How soon we forget the years when the offense had to score like a pinball machine because the defense couldn't protect a lead.

I haven't forgotten, my friend. Winning a game while needing to score 40 points is not the same as winning a game, scoring 12.

When you put up 40, you credit the offense. When you only score 12, you credit the defense if you win. It's not any more complicated than that.

burningmetal · 12-31-2018, 10:00 AM

Through the years, however, when Brees has had bad performances nobody has been allowed to say that he was bad. There's always been some weird, abstract analysis given to try to prove that he was somehow managing the game. Like as if he planned it that way.

Never made any sense to me.

WhoDat!656 · 12-31-2018, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Through the years, however, when Brees has had bad performances nobody has been allowed to say that he was bad. There's always been some weird, abstract analysis given to try to prove that he was somehow managing the game. Like as if he planned it that way.

Never made any sense to me.

You could probably count on both hands the number of games the Saints have lost because of Brees.

burningmetal · 12-31-2018, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

You could probably count on both hands the number of games the Saints have lost because of Brees.

I can definitely count more than that, that he cost the team. Not that any one player single handedly loses a game, but you get the point.

You're missing the main point, though, again. I'm not saying Brees sucks and should be immediately supplanted by Teddy Bridgewater. I'll leave you folks to argue about that, if you want to. It's the idea that Brees can do no wrong. Your comment that I originally responded to was case in point. That you would try to frame a 12 point output as a good job by the offense, simply because they won, makes no sense. If the defense doesn't show up, it's a loss. When another QB puts up 14 points and loses, he sucks, and somehow he is also responsible for the defense sucking.

There is no consistency there.

AsylumGuido · 12-31-2018, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I can definitely count more than that, that he cost the team. Not that any one player single handedly loses a game, but you get the point.

I'd like to actually see you count more games than that (counted on two hands) that Brees has cost the team a loss. Sure, he's thrown a pick here or there at a crucial time, but it usually comes after a game of mistakes by defense, dropped catches or stupid offensive penalties has placed him in a situation where he has to force the issue. He has won us FAR more games single-handedly when those same failures by the rest of the team were a factor.

The worst games attributed to Brees usually involved defenders constantly being in his face (see Dallas game this season). The greatest players of all time (which includes Brees) can have bad games, but the expectations get set so high that blame is placed upon them when some things are out of their control.

WhoDat!656 · 12-31-2018, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I haven't forgotten, my friend. Winning a game while needing to score 40 points is not the same as winning a game, scoring 12.

When you put up 40, you credit the offense. When you only score 12, you credit the defense if you win. It's not any more complicated than that.

If a team scores 40 points and loses, offense isn't the problem.

burningmetal · 12-31-2018, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by WhoDat!656

If a team scores 40 points and loses, offense isn't the problem.

.......?

Did you read what I said? If the offense scores 40, you credit them. If they score 12 and win, you credit the defense. That's what I said. In what way did I insinuate that scoring 40 and losing is the offense's fault?

It seems like you don't want to see a simple point for what it is.

spkb25 · 12-31-2018, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

.......?

Did you read what I said? If the offense scores 40, you credit them. If they score 12 and win, you credit the defense. That's what I said. In what way did I insinuate that scoring 40 and losing is the offense's fault?

It seems like you don't want to see a simple point for what it is.

I am so confused by his post to your post...it was literally like regurgitating what you had just said

12-31-2018, 09:20 AM	#1
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 Offense had to get the lead for the defense to protect. I guess it's stupid for me to post in the Saints forum, since certain people will say "you don't have the right", but, whatever. I just saw this comment and I can't help but reply. Regardless of any controversy or no controversy, it just doesn't make any sense to say that the offense had to give the team a lead to protect. Who protected the lead, if they won a game while scoring 12 points? The offense? Not quite. The extent to which people will go to protect the "sacred" ground Brees walks on has always amazed me. And I'm not doggin' on the guy, either. But there has to be a limit somewhere.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

12-31-2018, 09:52 AM	#2
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,097	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by burningmetal I guess it's stupid for me to post in the Saints forum, since certain people will say "you don't have the right", but, whatever. I just saw this comment and I can't help but reply. Regardless of any controversy or no controversy, it just doesn't make any sense to say that the offense had to give the team a lead to protect. Who protected the lead, if they won a game while scoring 12 points? The offense? Not quite. The extent to which people will go to protect the "sacred" ground Brees walks on has always amazed me. And I'm not doggin' on the guy, either. But there has to be a limit somewhere. How soon we forget the years when the offense had to score like a pinball machine because the defense couldn't protect a lead.

12-31-2018, 09:55 AM	#3
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 How soon we forget the years when the offense had to score like a pinball machine because the defense couldn't protect a lead. I haven't forgotten, my friend. Winning a game while needing to score 40 points is not the same as winning a game, scoring 12. When you put up 40, you credit the offense. When you only score 12, you credit the defense if you win. It's not any more complicated than that.

12-31-2018, 10:00 AM	#4
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: QB Controversy Through the years, however, when Brees has had bad performances nobody has been allowed to say that he was bad. There's always been some weird, abstract analysis given to try to prove that he was somehow managing the game. Like as if he planned it that way. Never made any sense to me.

12-31-2018, 11:45 AM	#5
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,097	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by burningmetal Through the years, however, when Brees has had bad performances nobody has been allowed to say that he was bad. There's always been some weird, abstract analysis given to try to prove that he was somehow managing the game. Like as if he planned it that way. Never made any sense to me. You could probably count on both hands the number of games the Saints have lost because of Brees.

12-31-2018, 12:14 PM	#6
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 You could probably count on both hands the number of games the Saints have lost because of Brees. I can definitely count more than that, that he cost the team. Not that any one player single handedly loses a game, but you get the point. You're missing the main point, though, again. I'm not saying Brees sucks and should be immediately supplanted by Teddy Bridgewater. I'll leave you folks to argue about that, if you want to. It's the idea that Brees can do no wrong. Your comment that I originally responded to was case in point. That you would try to frame a 12 point output as a good job by the offense, simply because they won, makes no sense. If the defense doesn't show up, it's a loss. When another QB puts up 14 points and loses, he sucks, and somehow he is also responsible for the defense sucking. There is no consistency there. spkb25 likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

12-31-2018, 01:26 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,953	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by burningmetal I can definitely count more than that, that he cost the team. Not that any one player single handedly loses a game, but you get the point. I'd like to actually see you count more games than that (counted on two hands) that Brees has cost the team a loss. Sure, he's thrown a pick here or there at a crucial time, but it usually comes after a game of mistakes by defense, dropped catches or stupid offensive penalties has placed him in a situation where he has to force the issue. He has won us FAR more games single-handedly when those same failures by the rest of the team were a factor. The worst games attributed to Brees usually involved defenders constantly being in his face (see Dallas game this season). The greatest players of all time (which includes Brees) can have bad games, but the expectations get set so high that blame is placed upon them when some things are out of their control. Danno and WhoDat!656 like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

12-31-2018, 11:44 AM	#8
WhoDat!656 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Shreveport,Louisiana Posts: 16,097	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by burningmetal I haven't forgotten, my friend. Winning a game while needing to score 40 points is not the same as winning a game, scoring 12. When you put up 40, you credit the offense. When you only score 12, you credit the defense if you win. It's not any more complicated than that. If a team scores 40 points and loses, offense isn't the problem.

12-31-2018, 12:04 PM	#9
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by WhoDat!656 If a team scores 40 points and loses, offense isn't the problem. .......? Did you read what I said? If the offense scores 40, you credit them. If they score 12 and win, you credit the defense. That's what I said. In what way did I insinuate that scoring 40 and losing is the offense's fault? It seems like you don't want to see a simple point for what it is.

12-31-2018, 12:11 PM	#10
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,147	Re: QB Controversy Originally Posted by burningmetal .......? Did you read what I said? If the offense scores 40, you credit them. If they score 12 and win, you credit the defense. That's what I said. In what way did I insinuate that scoring 40 and losing is the offense's fault? It seems like you don't want to see a simple point for what it is. I am so confused by his post to your post...it was literally like regurgitating what you had just said