Reggie Bush, Marques Colston to enter Saints’ Hall of Fame

jeanpierre · 06-07-2019, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING

I believe the bar is set so low for our HOF due to how long it took for the franchise to have some winning glory.

Reggie isn't even the worst for me. What the hell is Bobby Hebert doing in the Saints HOF? The Cajun Cannon was the biggest problem with those old Mora teams. It's easy to blame OC Carl Smith until looking at the offensive turn around in 1994-1995 with Jim Everett at QB. Hebert saved his absolute worst games for the playoffs, look them up. If advanced stats existed back then, he would've been compared to Blake Bortles and yet he's in the Saints HOF and we remember him fondly for some reason.

Grew up on Bayous Lafourche and Terrebonne and my family wasn't big Hebert fans of those wounded ducks; plus, he rivaled Diliberto in butchering the English language, but Hebert wasn't the problem - Mora was...

Mora didn't trust his players, his staff, often pulled most pass plays out of the play scripte, making the offense predictable; Hebert clarified this when he had Carl Smith on his show and callers were looking to vent...

Following weeks after that show other players on those teams corroborated Hebert's take on that time; Carl Smith was still the loyal soldier even though Mora has let him take the brunt of criticism for the offense...

Ron Swoboda famously criticized Mora for his overt conservatism; Mora became so agitated, he called in on another show and questioned Buford Jordan's manhood, Live - Jim Mora was his own worst enemy...

K Major · 06-07-2019, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Grew up on Bayous Lafourche and Terrebonne and my family wasn't big Hebert fans of those wounded ducks; plus, he rivaled Diliberto in butchering the English language, but Hebert wasn't the problem - Mora was...

JP -

Kind of off topic but is it safe to say Tommy Hodson was the best QB to come out of LaFourche Parish?

At LSU, he could flat out "spin it".

jeanpierre · 06-07-2019, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

JP -

Kind of off topic but is it safe to say Tommy Hodson was the best QB to come out of LaFourche Parish?

At LSU, he could flat out "spin it".

No, Hebert was better; in his very early days, he could run and truck like a TE as well, sort of like Cam...

If you recall the thread with the physics show looking at Brees passes, you don't want a perfect spiral for it to travel farther; Hebert just could heave it (i.e. Anthony Carter), just not overly accurate...

Bobby played for (believe Sam Goodwin then) at Northwestern State LA (Natchitoches), then USFL, didn't get any real QB coaching till Carl Smith, but he was as good as Brad Johnson who won a Superbowl...

Tommy Hodson was really good; actually played against him our JV year; very accurate, stronger than most QBs, but nothing special for an NFL arm; but Tommy had a good head on his shoulders...

That Fourcade v Hebert was a terrific battle in the slop (man-made) down at South Lafourche; that game got more buzz than any of the Big Catholic League showdowns back in the day...

But They're the most accomplished QBs from this area...

CHA_CHING · 06-07-2019, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Grew up on Bayous Lafourche and Terrebonne and my family wasn't big Hebert fans of those wounded ducks; plus, he rivaled Diliberto in butchering the English language, but Hebert wasn't the problem - Mora was...

Mora didn't trust his players, his staff, often pulled most pass plays out of the play scripte, making the offense predictable; Hebert clarified this when he had Carl Smith on his show and callers were looking to vent...

Following weeks after that show other players on those teams corroborated Hebert's take on that time; Carl Smith was still the loyal soldier even though Mora has let him take the brunt of criticism for the offense...

Ron Swoboda famously criticized Mora for his overt conservatism; Mora became so agitated, he called in on another show and questioned Buford Jordan's manhood, Live - Jim Mora was his own worst enemy...

Thanks for this reply JP, some great stuff.

You are definitely right that Mora never trusted anyone. His conservatism drove us crazy as fans. We were in a division with the 49ers, Falcons and Rams at the time. The Falcons were gutsy with Glanville's Run-N-Shoot offense and the 49ers were always an elite offense that didn't rely on conservative play calling. The Rams gave us fits too with Jim Everett (and then Everett got to beat them when he joined us. Those were fun days with our Rams rivalry)

Some friends of mine often argue that Mora's type of offense was undone after Dalton Hilliard blew his knee out. It seemed Mora wanted a run-heavy offense that controlled the clock and relied on the defense to close games out. Hilliard was an elite RB up until that point and he was never the same again. He still came back and gave us great highlight reel plays with special teams, but he couldn't put up those big rushing numbers anymore. Mora also flamed out on Vaughan Dunbar.

Not a fan of Hebert at all, but I'll give a tip of the hat to his 1991 MNF performance against the Raiders. I was at that game and still remember it. That was probably the best game of his career IMO. His play action fakes were amazing that night. We went into that game in a slump and the Raiders were kings of MNF at the time and we just wiped the floor with them that night.

jeanpierre · 06-07-2019, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING

Thanks for this reply JP, some great stuff.

You are definitely right that Mora never trusted anyone. His conservatism drove us crazy as fans. We were in a division with the 49ers, Falcons and Rams at the time. The Falcons were gutsy with Glanville's Run-N-Shoot offense and the 49ers were always an elite offense that didn't rely on conservative play calling. The Rams gave us fits too with Jim Everett (and then Everett got to beat them when he joined us. Those were fun days with our Rams rivalry)

Some friends of mine often argue that Mora's type of offense was undone after Dalton Hilliard blew his knee out. It seemed Mora wanted a run-heavy offense that controlled the clock and relied on the defense to close games out. Hilliard was an elite RB up until that point and he was never the same again. He still came back and gave us great highlight reel plays with special teams, but he couldn't put up those big rushing numbers anymore. Mora also flamed out on Vaughan Dunbar.

Not a fan of Hebert at all, but I'll give a tip of the hat to his 1991 MNF performance against the Raiders. I was at that game and still remember it. That was probably the best game of his career IMO. His play action fakes were amazing that night. We went into that game in a slump and the Raiders were kings of MNF at the time and we just wiped the floor with them that night.

Believe the mantra of the Mora teams was that they played not to lose, not to beat themselves - Mora didn't play to win and that was exposed, contrasted in marquee match-ups, playoff games...

Don't get me wrong, Mora was immensely popular early on; in fact, there was legitimate conversations of having him run for governor after the early success...

The late Mr. Jim Finks and Coach Mora's hard-nosed style turned this franchise around from the embarrassment that it was - and that contribution was necessary for this franchise to be where it it today...

Regrettably though, Coach Mora refused to trust, evolve and it cost him long-term friendships, success for not only this franchise, but for him personally...

CHA_CHING · 06-08-2019, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Believe the mantra of the Mora teams was that they played not to lose, not to beat themselves - Mora didn't play to win and that was exposed, contrasted in marquee match-ups, playoff games...

This is the best description I have ever heard of Mora. You hit the nail on the head perfectly. Wish I could give a dozen likes for this one.

They played not to lose, not to beat themselves but would get easily exposed due to their weaknesses.

You just made me think of all the gut wrenching losses from the Mora era. Not just the playoff losses, but the close losses that left you devastated back in the day. The 49ers used to always edge us out in those close tight games. I hated the Niners so much cause it felt like no matter what we did, no matter how tightly we played them, they would still edge right by us for the win.

I believe from 1989 up through 1992, we had some streak with the 49ers where almost every game was decided by 6 points or less. Those were the losses that made me want to scream my head off. I have tape of some of these games and they are so hard to watch. Mora gets out-coached in most of them by Siefart who keeps his foot on the gas pedal and still trying to outgun them down the field and run the clock. The Niners spent most of those games running Nickel defenses cause it seemed like they knew our offense wasn't going to pose much of a threat and the game hinged on our defense doing everything to try and win the game. We even shut down Young and company in a number of those games, only to barely lose.

06-07-2019, 10:58 AM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Reggie Bush, Marques Colston to enter Saints’ Hall of Fame Originally Posted by CHA_CHING I believe the bar is set so low for our HOF due to how long it took for the franchise to have some winning glory. Reggie isn't even the worst for me. What the hell is Bobby Hebert doing in the Saints HOF? The Cajun Cannon was the biggest problem with those old Mora teams. It's easy to blame OC Carl Smith until looking at the offensive turn around in 1994-1995 with Jim Everett at QB. Hebert saved his absolute worst games for the playoffs, look them up. If advanced stats existed back then, he would've been compared to Blake Bortles and yet he's in the Saints HOF and we remember him fondly for some reason. Grew up on Bayous Lafourche and Terrebonne and my family wasn't big Hebert fans of those wounded ducks; plus, he rivaled Diliberto in butchering the English language, but Hebert wasn't the problem - Mora was... Mora didn't trust his players, his staff, often pulled most pass plays out of the play scripte, making the offense predictable; Hebert clarified this when he had Carl Smith on his show and callers were looking to vent... Following weeks after that show other players on those teams corroborated Hebert's take on that time; Carl Smith was still the loyal soldier even though Mora has let him take the brunt of criticism for the offense... Ron Swoboda famously criticized Mora for his overt conservatism; Mora became so agitated, he called in on another show and questioned Buford Jordan's manhood, Live - Jim Mora was his own worst enemy... jnormand and CHA_CHING like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

06-07-2019, 11:25 AM	#2
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,828 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Reggie Bush, Marques Colston to enter Saints’ Hall of Fame Originally Posted by jeanpierre Grew up on Bayous Lafourche and Terrebonne and my family wasn't big Hebert fans of those wounded ducks; plus, he rivaled Diliberto in butchering the English language, but Hebert wasn't the problem - Mora was... JP - Kind of off topic but is it safe to say Tommy Hodson was the best QB to come out of LaFourche Parish? At LSU, he could flat out "spin it".

06-07-2019, 11:44 AM	#3
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Reggie Bush, Marques Colston to enter Saints’ Hall of Fame Originally Posted by K Major JP - Kind of off topic but is it safe to say Tommy Hodson was the best QB to come out of LaFourche Parish? At LSU, he could flat out "spin it". No, Hebert was better; in his very early days, he could run and truck like a TE as well, sort of like Cam... If you recall the thread with the physics show looking at Brees passes, you don't want a perfect spiral for it to travel farther; Hebert just could heave it (i.e. Anthony Carter), just not overly accurate... Bobby played for (believe Sam Goodwin then) at Northwestern State LA (Natchitoches), then USFL, didn't get any real QB coaching till Carl Smith, but he was as good as Brad Johnson who won a Superbowl... Tommy Hodson was really good; actually played against him our JV year; very accurate, stronger than most QBs, but nothing special for an NFL arm; but Tommy had a good head on his shoulders... That Fourcade v Hebert was a terrific battle in the slop (man-made) down at South Lafourche; that game got more buzz than any of the Big Catholic League showdowns back in the day... But They're the most accomplished QBs from this area... SmashMouth, K Major and CHA_CHING like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

06-07-2019, 06:28 PM	#4
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: Reggie Bush, Marques Colston to enter Saints’ Hall of Fame Originally Posted by jeanpierre Grew up on Bayous Lafourche and Terrebonne and my family wasn't big Hebert fans of those wounded ducks; plus, he rivaled Diliberto in butchering the English language, but Hebert wasn't the problem - Mora was... Mora didn't trust his players, his staff, often pulled most pass plays out of the play scripte, making the offense predictable; Hebert clarified this when he had Carl Smith on his show and callers were looking to vent... Following weeks after that show other players on those teams corroborated Hebert's take on that time; Carl Smith was still the loyal soldier even though Mora has let him take the brunt of criticism for the offense... Ron Swoboda famously criticized Mora for his overt conservatism; Mora became so agitated, he called in on another show and questioned Buford Jordan's manhood, Live - Jim Mora was his own worst enemy... Thanks for this reply JP, some great stuff. You are definitely right that Mora never trusted anyone. His conservatism drove us crazy as fans. We were in a division with the 49ers, Falcons and Rams at the time. The Falcons were gutsy with Glanville's Run-N-Shoot offense and the 49ers were always an elite offense that didn't rely on conservative play calling. The Rams gave us fits too with Jim Everett (and then Everett got to beat them when he joined us. Those were fun days with our Rams rivalry) Some friends of mine often argue that Mora's type of offense was undone after Dalton Hilliard blew his knee out. It seemed Mora wanted a run-heavy offense that controlled the clock and relied on the defense to close games out. Hilliard was an elite RB up until that point and he was never the same again. He still came back and gave us great highlight reel plays with special teams, but he couldn't put up those big rushing numbers anymore. Mora also flamed out on Vaughan Dunbar. Not a fan of Hebert at all, but I'll give a tip of the hat to his 1991 MNF performance against the Raiders. I was at that game and still remember it. That was probably the best game of his career IMO. His play action fakes were amazing that night. We went into that game in a slump and the Raiders were kings of MNF at the time and we just wiped the floor with them that night. jeanpierre likes this.

06-07-2019, 08:15 PM	#5
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Reggie Bush, Marques Colston to enter Saints’ Hall of Fame Originally Posted by CHA_CHING Thanks for this reply JP, some great stuff. You are definitely right that Mora never trusted anyone. His conservatism drove us crazy as fans. We were in a division with the 49ers, Falcons and Rams at the time. The Falcons were gutsy with Glanville's Run-N-Shoot offense and the 49ers were always an elite offense that didn't rely on conservative play calling. The Rams gave us fits too with Jim Everett (and then Everett got to beat them when he joined us. Those were fun days with our Rams rivalry) Some friends of mine often argue that Mora's type of offense was undone after Dalton Hilliard blew his knee out. It seemed Mora wanted a run-heavy offense that controlled the clock and relied on the defense to close games out. Hilliard was an elite RB up until that point and he was never the same again. He still came back and gave us great highlight reel plays with special teams, but he couldn't put up those big rushing numbers anymore. Mora also flamed out on Vaughan Dunbar. Not a fan of Hebert at all, but I'll give a tip of the hat to his 1991 MNF performance against the Raiders. I was at that game and still remember it. That was probably the best game of his career IMO. His play action fakes were amazing that night. We went into that game in a slump and the Raiders were kings of MNF at the time and we just wiped the floor with them that night. Believe the mantra of the Mora teams was that they played not to lose, not to beat themselves - Mora didn't play to win and that was exposed, contrasted in marquee match-ups, playoff games... Don't get me wrong, Mora was immensely popular early on; in fact, there was legitimate conversations of having him run for governor after the early success... The late Mr. Jim Finks and Coach Mora's hard-nosed style turned this franchise around from the embarrassment that it was - and that contribution was necessary for this franchise to be where it it today... Regrettably though, Coach Mora refused to trust, evolve and it cost him long-term friendships, success for not only this franchise, but for him personally... CHA_CHING likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

06-08-2019, 07:20 PM	#6
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: Reggie Bush, Marques Colston to enter Saints’ Hall of Fame Originally Posted by jeanpierre *Believe the mantra of the Mora teams was that they played not to lose, not to beat themselves* - Mora didn't play to win and that was exposed, contrasted in marquee match-ups, playoff games...** This is the best description I have ever heard of Mora. You hit the nail on the head perfectly. Wish I could give a dozen likes for this one. They played not to lose, not to beat themselves but would get easily exposed due to their weaknesses. You just made me think of all the gut wrenching losses from the Mora era. Not just the playoff losses, but the close losses that left you devastated back in the day. The 49ers used to always edge us out in those close tight games. I hated the Niners so much cause it felt like no matter what we did, no matter how tightly we played them, they would still edge right by us for the win. I believe from 1989 up through 1992, we had some streak with the 49ers where almost every game was decided by 6 points or less. Those were the losses that made me want to scream my head off. I have tape of some of these games and they are so hard to watch. Mora gets out-coached in most of them by Siefart who keeps his foot on the gas pedal and still trying to outgun them down the field and run the clock. The Niners spent most of those games running Nickel defenses cause it seemed like they knew our offense wasn't going to pose much of a threat and the game hinged on our defense doing everything to try and win the game. We even shut down Young and company in a number of those games, only to barely lose.

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/93775-reggie-bush-marques-colston-enter-saints-hall-fame.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
Reggie Bush, Marques Colston to enter Saints’ Hall of Fame	This thread	Refback	06-05-2019 02:10 PM	2