What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets

vpheughan · 08-25-2019, 08:57 AM

Grayson takes Ted Ginn Jr's spot on the roster.

Beastmode · 08-25-2019, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

Grayson takes Ted Ginn Jr's spot on the roster.

Ginn would be a cap hit of 1M but not 100% so don't start choking me out. I thought the same thing. At 34 no way is he still a field stretcher and he's no Fitzgerald so is he really bringing anything. Seems like we are paying a premium for something that we basically can get for next to nothing.

jeanpierre · 08-26-2019, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Ginn would be a cap hit of 1M but not 100% so don't start choking me out. I thought the same thing. At 34 no way is he still a field stretcher and he's no Fitzgerald so is he really bringing anything. Seems like we are paying a premium for something that we basically can get for next to nothing.

Have been thinking the same thing; Tre'Quan was drafted on Day 2 to make Ginn and his poor route-running expendable - Payton has called Ginn out on a number of occasions since he got here for not being in the right place (route)...

Tre'Quan has flashed in camp, so maybe it's time for even more opportunities ...

In light of what we've seen from the other new kids, I'm inclined to change my roster projection (best guess) to the Saints moving Ginn and keeping:

WR-X (2) 13 - Michael Thomas, 17 - Emmanuel Butler (UDFA 2019)

WR-S (2) 80 - Austin Carr, 83 - Cyril Grayson (UDFA 2019)

WR-Z (2) 10 - Tra'Quan Smith, 18 - Keith Kirkwood

Having Grayson gives us a legit speed threat, even if he's running just limited deep routes

Grayson has shown reliable hands, and you can see defenders get way back as he lines up against them knowing that speed it coming...

Utah_Saint · 08-26-2019, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Have been thinking the same thing; Tre'Quan was drafted on Day 2 to make Ginn and his poor route-running expendable - Payton has called Ginn out on a number of occasions since he got here for not being in the right place (route)...

Tre'Quan has flashed in camp, so maybe it's time for even more opportunities ...

In light of what we've seen from the other new kids, I'm inclined to change my roster projection (best guess) to the Saints moving Ginn and keeping:

WR-X (2) 13 - Michael Thomas, 17 - Emmanuel Butler (UDFA 2019)

WR-S (2) 80 - Austin Carr, 83 - Cyril Grayson (UDFA 2019)

WR-Z (2) 10 - Tra'Quan Smith, 18 - Keith Kirkwood

Having Grayson gives us a legit speed threat, even if he's running just limited deep routes

Grayson has shown reliable hands, and you can see defenders get way back as he lines up against them knowing that speed it coming...

I just can't see them keeping Carr over Ginn. I was really excited when we got Carr a couple years ago. I thought he'd slip right into the Moore/Snead role of being that possession receiver who always gets 8 yards when you need 7, but it's been 2 years now and I just haven't seen it. Ginn, on the other hand was playing really well last season before he got hurt. Last season Ginn was only active in 5 games and had 17 receptions, Carr was active in 14 games and had only had 9 receptions. So unless there's been some huge drop off in Ginn's performance in training camp, that no one reported, I just don't see it happening.

K Major · 08-27-2019, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Last season Ginn was only active in 5 games and had 17 receptions, Carr was active in 14 games and had only had 9 receptions. So unless there's been some huge drop off in Ginn's performance in training camp, that no one reported, I just don't see it happening.

^^^ This ^^^.

Thought I was the only one seeing this last season.

I understand Carr is a SP guy (so was Tommy Lee) but he's had very little production/impact in New Orleans. We need more chain movers & guys not named Thomas/Kamara to step up in games.

Carr is definitely a bubble guy for me.

K Major · 08-25-2019, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

Grayson takes Ted Ginn Jr's spot on the roster.

Better learn the route tree first. World class speed does you no good if you can't be where you supposed to be when the ball is delivered.

Ginn is going no where.

jeanpierre · 08-25-2019, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Better learn the route tree first. World class speed does you no good if you can't be where you supposed to be when the ball is delivered.

Ginn is going no where.

Well this is the last season by contract for Ginn, and he's 34 now; so someone will need to assume that Devery Henderson/Brandon Cooks role of taking the top off the defense...

I'd think Grayson would be a great choice as he could add to his route tree as he develops...

And if it's not Grayson, it's highly probably it'll be someone not named Ginn next season; that's why I was a fan of drafting Mecole Hardeman, KC's selection...

K Major · 08-25-2019, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Well this is the last season by contract for Ginn, and he's 34 now; so someone will need to assume that Devery Henderson/Brandon Cooks role of taking the top off the defense...

I'd think Grayson would be a great choice as he could add to his route tree as he develops...

Someone will definitely need to STEP UP in 2020.

Carr, Kirkwood, and Smith had most of the season, last year, to prove themselves without Ginn. They couldn't.

Big shoes to fill once Ginn walks into the sunset.

jeanpierre · 08-25-2019, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Someone will definitely need to STEP UP in 2020.

Carr, Kirkwood, and Smith had most of the season, last year, to prove themselves without Ginn. They couldn't.

Big shoes to fill once Ginn walks into the sunset.

Three years, that's how long most receivers really need to be at full-on speed; for example, Lance Moore didn't come in right away and be a legit threat until year 3...

Each WR has his own style, but with the number of guys we've got, we can rotate them, keep 'em fresh, and throw different looks to keep defenses honest...

A WR drafted in the third round and up should come in and contribute right away, first rounders should be just-add-water starters; so considering what we've got invested, all these young guys are hits in my book...

K Major · 08-25-2019, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

A WR drafted in the third round and up should come in and contribute right away, first rounders should be just-add-water starters; so considering what we've got invested, all these young guys are hits in my book...[/B]

Agreed on the first part.

Trequan Smith just doesn't look like he wants it out there ... at least not last night. Outside of the Redskins and Philly games, I've yet to see any consistent production from him.

For comparison I've watched Cowboys WR Michael Gallup (selected a few picks before Tre in 2018 draft) dominate this pre season and also in actual games with lesser talent throwing him the ball.

Tre needs to get it together. No excuses.

08-25-2019, 08:57 AM	#1
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,555	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Grayson takes Ted Ginn Jr's spot on the roster.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,555

08-25-2019, 09:13 AM	#2
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by vpheughan Grayson takes Ted Ginn Jr's spot on the roster. Ginn would be a cap hit of 1M but not 100% so don't start choking me out. I thought the same thing. At 34 no way is he still a field stretcher and he's no Fitzgerald so is he really bringing anything. Seems like we are paying a premium for something that we basically can get for next to nothing. jeanpierre likes this.
Beastmode 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9,126

08-26-2019, 07:00 AM	#3
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by Beastmode Ginn would be a cap hit of 1M but not 100% so don't start choking me out. I thought the same thing. At 34 no way is he still a field stretcher and he's no Fitzgerald so is he really bringing anything. Seems like we are paying a premium for something that we basically can get for next to nothing. Have been thinking the same thing; Tre'Quan was drafted on Day 2 to make Ginn and his poor route-running expendable - Payton has called Ginn out on a number of occasions since he got here for not being in the right place (route)... Tre'Quan has flashed in camp, so maybe it's time for even more opportunities ... In light of what we've seen from the other new kids, I'm inclined to change my roster projection (best guess) to the Saints moving Ginn and keeping: WR-X (2) 13 - Michael Thomas, 17 - Emmanuel Butler (UDFA 2019) WR-S (2) 80 - Austin Carr, 83 - Cyril Grayson (UDFA 2019) WR-Z (2) 10 - Tra'Quan Smith, 18 - Keith Kirkwood Having Grayson gives us a legit speed threat, even if he's running just limited deep routes Grayson has shown reliable hands, and you can see defenders get way back as he lines up against them knowing that speed it coming...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

08-26-2019, 11:45 PM	#4
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by jeanpierre Have been thinking the same thing; Tre'Quan was drafted on Day 2 to make Ginn and his poor route-running expendable - Payton has called Ginn out on a number of occasions since he got here for not being in the right place (route)... Tre'Quan has flashed in camp, so maybe it's time for even more opportunities ... In light of what we've seen from the other new kids, I'm inclined to change my roster projection (best guess) to the Saints moving Ginn and keeping: WR-X (2) 13 - Michael Thomas, 17 - Emmanuel Butler (UDFA 2019) WR-S (2) 80 - Austin Carr, 83 - Cyril Grayson (UDFA 2019) WR-Z (2) 10 - Tra'Quan Smith, 18 - Keith Kirkwood Having Grayson gives us a legit speed threat, even if he's running just limited deep routes Grayson has shown reliable hands, and you can see defenders get way back as he lines up against them knowing that speed it coming... I just can't see them keeping Carr over Ginn. I was really excited when we got Carr a couple years ago. I thought he'd slip right into the Moore/Snead role of being that possession receiver who always gets 8 yards when you need 7, but it's been 2 years now and I just haven't seen it. Ginn, on the other hand was playing really well last season before he got hurt. Last season Ginn was only active in 5 games and had 17 receptions, Carr was active in 14 games and had only had 9 receptions. So unless there's been some huge drop off in Ginn's performance in training camp, that no one reported, I just don't see it happening. K Major likes this.

08-27-2019, 08:19 AM	#5
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Last season Ginn was only active in 5 games and had 17 receptions, Carr was active in 14 games and had only had 9 receptions. So unless there's been some huge drop off in Ginn's performance in training camp, that no one reported, I just don't see it happening. ^^^ This ^^^. Thought I was the only one seeing this last season. I understand Carr is a SP guy (so was Tommy Lee) but he's had very little production/impact in New Orleans. We need more chain movers & guys not named Thomas/Kamara to step up in games. Carr is definitely a bubble guy for me. Rugby Saint II and dam1953 like this.

08-25-2019, 10:52 AM	#6
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by vpheughan Grayson takes Ted Ginn Jr's spot on the roster. Better learn the route tree first. World class speed does you no good if you can't be where you supposed to be when the ball is delivered. Ginn is going no where. jnormand, Rsanders24, Rugby Saint II and 1 others like this.

08-25-2019, 11:17 AM	#7
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by K Major Better learn the route tree first. World class speed does you no good if you can't be where you supposed to be when the ball is delivered. Ginn is going no where. Well this is the last season by contract for Ginn, and he's 34 now; so someone will need to assume that Devery Henderson/Brandon Cooks role of taking the top off the defense... I'd think Grayson would be a great choice as he could add to his route tree as he develops... And if it's not Grayson, it's highly probably it'll be someone not named Ginn next season; that's why I was a fan of drafting Mecole Hardeman, KC's selection... Beastmode likes this.

08-25-2019, 11:26 AM	#8
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by jeanpierre Well this is the last season by contract for Ginn, and he's 34 now; so someone will need to assume that Devery Henderson/Brandon Cooks role of taking the top off the defense... I'd think Grayson would be a great choice as he could add to his route tree as he develops... Someone will definitely need to STEP UP in 2020. Carr, Kirkwood, and Smith had most of the season, last year, to prove themselves without Ginn. They couldn't. Big shoes to fill once Ginn walks into the sunset. jnormand likes this.

08-25-2019, 01:41 PM	#9
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by K Major Someone will definitely need to STEP UP in 2020. Carr, Kirkwood, and Smith had most of the season, last year, to prove themselves without Ginn. They couldn't. Big shoes to fill once Ginn walks into the sunset. Three years, that's how long most receivers really need to be at full-on speed; for example, Lance Moore didn't come in right away and be a legit threat until year 3... Each WR has his own style, but with the number of guys we've got, we can rotate them, keep 'em fresh, and throw different looks to keep defenses honest... A WR drafted in the third round and up should come in and contribute right away, first rounders should be just-add-water starters; so considering what we've got invested, all these young guys are hits in my book...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

08-25-2019, 02:11 PM	#10
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: What we learned in Saints' preseason win over Jets Originally Posted by jeanpierre A WR drafted in the third round and up should come in and contribute right away, first rounders should be just-add-water starters; so considering what we've got invested, all these young guys are hits in my book...[/B] Agreed on the first part. Trequan Smith just doesn't look like he wants it out there ... at least not last night. Outside of the Redskins and Philly games, I've yet to see any consistent production from him. For comparison I've watched Cowboys WR Michael Gallup (selected a few picks before Tre in 2018 draft) dominate this pre season and also in actual games with lesser talent throwing him the ball. Tre needs to get it together. No excuses. jnormand, SmashMouth, cmike and 1 others like this.