49ers are scary good

K Major · 01-11-2020, 05:57 PM

One simple thing I've noticed in today's game ...

Niners doubled Theilan, linebacker (I think it's Kwon A) covering Rudolph & Diggs getting handled one on one.

This is why I'll never be a Dennis Allen fan. Niners Def Coordinator calling a great game plan and removing any "threats" at WR.

Coaching matters.

CHA_CHING · 01-11-2020, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

One simple thing I've noticed in today's game ...

Niners doubled Theilan, linebacker (I think it's Kwon A) covering Rudolph & Diggs getting handled one on one.

This is why I'll never be a Dennis Allen fan. Niners Def Coordinator calling a great game plan and removing any "threats" at WR.

Coaching matters.

Coaching definitely matters. The Niners are focusing on running the ball and attacking Minny up the middle.

I went and read on a 49ers forum this past week and their fans were utterly shocked that Payton didn't take advantage of the mismatches in the Vikings secondary, or bother attacking them by running up the middle.

We see Shanahan doing it. They ran 12 consecutive run plays, and they've taken advantage of the mismatches by utilizing speed.

Hell when the 49ers played us, they took advantage of our weak secondary and showed we could be broken down with big plays. People criticize Shanahan, but he has a long track record of using Dennis Allen's defenses as a punching bag.

Thielen tore us up for 127 yards on just 7 catches. While everyone wastes their breath on the tick-tacky non-call, I want to know where the hell was the safety on the bomb pass Thielan caught before that? No where to be seen.

dizzle88 · 01-11-2020, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING

Coaching definitely matters. The Niners are focusing on running the ball and attacking Minny up the middle.

I went and read on a 49ers forum this past week and their fans were utterly shocked that Payton didn't take advantage of the mismatches in the Vikings secondary, or bother attacking them by running up the middle.

We see Shanahan doing it. They ran 12 consecutive run plays, and they've taken advantage of the mismatches by utilizing speed.

Hell when the 49ers played us, they took advantage of our weak secondary and showed we could be broken down with big plays. People criticize Shanahan, but he has a long track record of using Dennis Allen's defenses as a punching bag.

Thielen tore us up for 127 yards on just 7 catches. While everyone wastes their breath on the tick-tacky non-call, I want to know where the hell was the safety on the bomb pass Thielan caught before that? No where to be seen.

I mean, it was Marcus Williams, the only consistency he shows is consistently out of position.

But yeah agreed about DA, he is Paytons "Yes Man" - that's why you dont see Payton going ballistic at him like he did with Ryan and Gregg.

The game we played was lost before it even began because of the lackluster gameplan the coaches put out there.

CHA_CHING · 01-11-2020, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I mean, it was Marcus Williams, the only consistency he shows is consistently out of position.

But yeah agreed about DA, he is Paytons "Yes Man" - that's why you dont see Payton going ballistic at him like he did with Ryan and Gregg.

The game we played was lost before it even began because of the lackluster gameplan the coaches put out there.

I don't have the time right now, but I swear, I saw on Youtube a few years ago someone break down the Minnesota Miracle play and they showed where Allen called up a play like he was trying to prevent a field goal, rather than a big play. There's 2 guys completely out of position in the middle of the field just standing there on the play, not covering anyone.

I agree and I understand your criticism of Marcus Williams, but it also falls on Allen.

Williams and Eli Apple were 2 of the biggest weaknesses in the secondary this year. I have long been saying Apple was a problem cause he's a penalty magnet with drawing blatant pass interference calls. We had a very undisciplined team this past year when it came to penalties and I think Apple ranked #1 for most of the year in drawing PI calls.

Lord_Saint83 · 01-11-2020, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I mean, it was Marcus Williams, the only consistency he shows is consistently out of position.

But yeah agreed about DA, he is Paytons "Yes Man" - that's why you dont see Payton going ballistic at him like he did with Ryan and Gregg.

The game we played was lost before it even began because of the lackluster gameplan the coaches put out there.

Unfortunately you’re right about Allen. He is the last of the old cronies left but for some reason Sean keeps him around like a stray cat that wanders onto your porch and you fell sorry for him so you feed him but now he won’t go away.

CHA_CHING · 01-11-2020, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83

Unfortunately you’re right about Allen. He is the last of the old cronies left but for some reason Sean keeps him around like a stray cat that wanders onto your porch and you fell sorry for him so you feed him but now he won’t go away.

If Payton could, he'd probably bring back Gregg Williams and most of this fan base would be happy with that. GW gets way too much credit for our SB win. They were a middle of the pact defense (didn't rank better than 21 in ANY statistical category) outside of getting a bunch of turnovers. We had a top 3 ranked offense and were in the top 5 all year on rushing. Our offense don't really get the praise it deserved for 2009. They were neck to neck with the Colts all year long.

When the turnovers didn't happen though with Williams, those teams always struggled.

I would STILL love to have Wade Phillips come in as DC. I know that is controversial opinion for some reason with fans, but I like Wade and think he could work wonders with the talent we have.

I fear we're going to be in for a rude awakening next year with Nolan gone. He is mainly to thank for why we've had great LB coverage play and a pass rush the last 3 seasons. Our defense immediately turned a corner when he came in.

dizzle88 · 01-11-2020, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING

If Payton could, he'd probably bring back Gregg Williams and most of this fan base would be happy with that. GW gets way too much credit for our SB win. They were a middle of the pact defense (didn't rank better than 21 in ANY statistical category) outside of getting a bunch of turnovers.

When the turnovers didn't happen though with Williams, those teams always struggled.

I would STILL love to have Wade Phillips come in as DC. I know that is controversial opinion for some reason with fans, but I like Wade and think he could work wonders with the talent we have.

I fear we're going to be in for a rude awakening next year with Nolan gone. He is mainly to thank for why we've had great LB coverage play and a pass rush the last 3 seasons. Our defense immediately turned a corner when he came in.

Just like to add a point - in 2009 when the turnovers started to wane, the defense struggled.

In 2010, GW built the 9th ranked defense in the league, with Jo-Lonn Dunbar as our middle linebacker.

They just went back to sucking the next year.

CHA_CHING · 01-11-2020, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Just like to add a point - in 2009 when the turnovers started to wane, the defense struggled.

In 2010, GW built the 9th ranked defense in the league, with Jo-Lonn Dunbar as our middle linebacker.

They just went back to sucking the next year.

Wish I could link your post many times. I posted this very thing back in 2018 on the other Saints forum and people got really upset with me.

It's true though. The defense did begin struggling when the turnovers waned. The guys over at Black and Gold Review blogs, even did an entire blog about it years ago, showcasing that the 2009 defense really wasn't all that great.

Most of their turnovers were also built on playing crappy QBs. The first 10 weeks of the season, they played mostly mediocre at best QBs (Eli Manning, Mark Sanchez, Chad Henne, Kevin Kolb).

I also like to remind people cause it's forgotten now - KEVIN KOLB became a household name for his performance against our defense. He threw for 399 yards, 3 TDs and 3 INTs in that game. Kolb was hyped up to be the successor in Philly, then even got paid in Arizona before it became obvious that his one big game was fool's gold.

From weeks 1 to 11, the Saints averaged 2.5 to 3 turnovers a game in 2009. After week 11 though, the turnovers just completely stopped for the most part and they struggled.

We most likely lose to Minnesota in the NFCCG if they don't keep turning the ball over. They were practically handing the ball out to us with those 5 turnovers. But we struggled all through that game. 4 of their turnovers came on drives that were in our territory including Favre's last pick. We really did struggle that entire game, as our offense really couldn't get much together. Even with all those turnovers we needed OT to barely get past that team.

The 2010 defense ranked higher in stats but the turnovers were gone and I don't know what the hell happened in the playoffs where they just collapsed to the floor.

True too about 2011. It's why I didn't believe in that team. Everyone acts like they were some robbed SB contender, but that defense was god awful. In the wildcard game vs Detroit, they gave up 28 points and Payton didn't trust them in the end to the point he went for it on 4th down twice and ran the score up to put the game out of reach.

dskyyksd · 01-11-2020, 07:00 PM

I blew a fuse when the &%$#@! Seahawks died at the one inch line against the 49ers two weeks ago, forcing the 13-3 Saints to play another damn wildcard game against the &%$#@*! Vikings. I KNEW it would screw the Saints again somehow. Nice teamwork! I hate those two teams more than any other. All they know how to do is get in the Saints' way and roll over and play dead for somebody else!

Lord_Saint83 · 01-11-2020, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING

If Payton could, he'd probably bring back Gregg Williams and most of this fan base would be happy with that. GW gets way too much credit for our SB win. They were a middle of the pact defense (didn't rank better than 21 in ANY statistical category) outside of getting a bunch of turnovers. We had a top 3 ranked offense and were in the top 5 all year on rushing. Our offense don't really get the praise it deserved for 2009. They were neck to neck with the Colts all year long.

When the turnovers didn't happen though with Williams, those teams always struggled.

I would STILL love to have Wade Phillips come in as DC. I know that is controversial opinion for some reason with fans, but I like Wade and think he could work wonders with the talent we have.

I fear we're going to be in for a rude awakening next year with Nolan gone. He is mainly to thank for why we've had great LB coverage play and a pass rush the last 3 seasons. Our defense immediately turned a corner when he came in.

I think what people don't want anything to do with Wade is the personnel changes that will have and need to be made. Some guys won't fit and some pieces will need to be added with little cap.

01-11-2020, 06:02 PM	#2
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: 49ers are scary good Originally Posted by K Major One simple thing I've noticed in today's game ... Niners doubled Theilan, linebacker (I think it's Kwon A) covering Rudolph & Diggs getting handled one on one. This is why I'll never be a Dennis Allen fan. Niners Def Coordinator calling a great game plan and removing any "threats" at WR. Coaching matters. Coaching definitely matters. The Niners are focusing on running the ball and attacking Minny up the middle. I went and read on a 49ers forum this past week and their fans were utterly shocked that Payton didn't take advantage of the mismatches in the Vikings secondary, or bother attacking them by running up the middle. We see Shanahan doing it. They ran 12 consecutive run plays, and they've taken advantage of the mismatches by utilizing speed. Hell when the 49ers played us, they took advantage of our weak secondary and showed we could be broken down with big plays. People criticize Shanahan, but he has a long track record of using Dennis Allen's defenses as a punching bag. Thielen tore us up for 127 yards on just 7 catches. While everyone wastes their breath on the tick-tacky non-call, I want to know where the hell was the safety on the bomb pass Thielan caught before that? No where to be seen.

01-11-2020, 06:11 PM	#3
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: 49ers are scary good Originally Posted by CHA_CHING Coaching definitely matters. The Niners are focusing on running the ball and attacking Minny up the middle. I went and read on a 49ers forum this past week and their fans were utterly shocked that Payton didn't take advantage of the mismatches in the Vikings secondary, or bother attacking them by running up the middle. We see Shanahan doing it. They ran 12 consecutive run plays, and they've taken advantage of the mismatches by utilizing speed. Hell when the 49ers played us, they took advantage of our weak secondary and showed we could be broken down with big plays. People criticize Shanahan, but he has a long track record of using Dennis Allen's defenses as a punching bag. Thielen tore us up for 127 yards on just 7 catches. While everyone wastes their breath on the tick-tacky non-call, I want to know where the hell was the safety on the bomb pass Thielan caught before that? No where to be seen. I mean, it was Marcus Williams, the only consistency he shows is consistently out of position. But yeah agreed about DA, he is Paytons "Yes Man" - that's why you dont see Payton going ballistic at him like he did with Ryan and Gregg. The game we played was lost before it even began because of the lackluster gameplan the coaches put out there. Lord_Saint83 likes this.

01-11-2020, 06:15 PM	#4
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: 49ers are scary good Originally Posted by dizzle88 I mean, it was Marcus Williams, the only consistency he shows is consistently out of position. But yeah agreed about DA, he is Paytons "Yes Man" - that's why you dont see Payton going ballistic at him like he did with Ryan and Gregg. The game we played was lost before it even began because of the lackluster gameplan the coaches put out there. I don't have the time right now, but I swear, I saw on Youtube a few years ago someone break down the Minnesota Miracle play and they showed where Allen called up a play like he was trying to prevent a field goal, rather than a big play. There's 2 guys completely out of position in the middle of the field just standing there on the play, not covering anyone. I agree and I understand your criticism of Marcus Williams, but it also falls on Allen. Williams and Eli Apple were 2 of the biggest weaknesses in the secondary this year. I have long been saying Apple was a problem cause he's a penalty magnet with drawing blatant pass interference calls. We had a very undisciplined team this past year when it came to penalties and I think Apple ranked #1 for most of the year in drawing PI calls.

01-11-2020, 06:24 PM	#5
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: 49ers are scary good Originally Posted by dizzle88 I mean, it was Marcus Williams, the only consistency he shows is consistently out of position. But yeah agreed about DA, he is Paytons "Yes Man" - that's why you dont see Payton going ballistic at him like he did with Ryan and Gregg. The game we played was lost before it even began because of the lackluster gameplan the coaches put out there. Unfortunately you’re right about Allen. He is the last of the old cronies left but for some reason Sean keeps him around like a stray cat that wanders onto your porch and you fell sorry for him so you feed him but now he won’t go away. dizzle88 and CHA_CHING like this.

01-11-2020, 06:31 PM	#6
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: 49ers are scary good Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83 Unfortunately you’re right about Allen. He is the last of the old cronies left but for some reason Sean keeps him around like a stray cat that wanders onto your porch and you fell sorry for him so you feed him but now he won’t go away. If Payton could, he'd probably bring back Gregg Williams and most of this fan base would be happy with that. GW gets way too much credit for our SB win. They were a middle of the pact defense (didn't rank better than 21 in ANY statistical category) outside of getting a bunch of turnovers. We had a top 3 ranked offense and were in the top 5 all year on rushing. Our offense don't really get the praise it deserved for 2009. They were neck to neck with the Colts all year long. When the turnovers didn't happen though with Williams, those teams always struggled. I would STILL love to have Wade Phillips come in as DC. I know that is controversial opinion for some reason with fans, but I like Wade and think he could work wonders with the talent we have. I fear we're going to be in for a rude awakening next year with Nolan gone. He is mainly to thank for why we've had great LB coverage play and a pass rush the last 3 seasons. Our defense immediately turned a corner when he came in.

01-11-2020, 05:57 PM	#1
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,739 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 49ers are scary good One simple thing I've noticed in today's game ... Niners doubled Theilan, linebacker (I think it's Kwon A) covering Rudolph & Diggs getting handled one on one. This is why I'll never be a Dennis Allen fan. Niners Def Coordinator calling a great game plan and removing any "threats" at WR. Coaching matters. dizzle88 and CHA_CHING like this.

01-11-2020, 06:33 PM	#7
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,518	Re: 49ers are scary good Originally Posted by CHA_CHING If Payton could, he'd probably bring back Gregg Williams and most of this fan base would be happy with that. GW gets way too much credit for our SB win. They were a middle of the pact defense (didn't rank better than 21 in ANY statistical category) outside of getting a bunch of turnovers. When the turnovers didn't happen though with Williams, those teams always struggled. I would STILL love to have Wade Phillips come in as DC. I know that is controversial opinion for some reason with fans, but I like Wade and think he could work wonders with the talent we have. I fear we're going to be in for a rude awakening next year with Nolan gone. He is mainly to thank for why we've had great LB coverage play and a pass rush the last 3 seasons. Our defense immediately turned a corner when he came in. Just like to add a point - in 2009 when the turnovers started to wane, the defense struggled. In 2010, GW built the 9th ranked defense in the league, with Jo-Lonn Dunbar as our middle linebacker. They just went back to sucking the next year. CHA_CHING likes this.

01-11-2020, 06:44 PM	#8
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: 49ers are scary good Originally Posted by dizzle88 Just like to add a point - in 2009 when the turnovers started to wane, the defense struggled. In 2010, GW built the 9th ranked defense in the league, with Jo-Lonn Dunbar as our middle linebacker. They just went back to sucking the next year. Wish I could link your post many times. I posted this very thing back in 2018 on the other Saints forum and people got really upset with me. It's true though. The defense did begin struggling when the turnovers waned. The guys over at Black and Gold Review blogs, even did an entire blog about it years ago, showcasing that the 2009 defense really wasn't all that great. Most of their turnovers were also built on playing crappy QBs. The first 10 weeks of the season, they played mostly mediocre at best QBs (Eli Manning, Mark Sanchez, Chad Henne, Kevin Kolb). I also like to remind people cause it's forgotten now - KEVIN KOLB became a household name for his performance against our defense. He threw for 399 yards, 3 TDs and 3 INTs in that game. Kolb was hyped up to be the successor in Philly, then even got paid in Arizona before it became obvious that his one big game was fool's gold. From weeks 1 to 11, the Saints averaged 2.5 to 3 turnovers a game in 2009. After week 11 though, the turnovers just completely stopped for the most part and they struggled. We most likely lose to Minnesota in the NFCCG if they don't keep turning the ball over. They were practically handing the ball out to us with those 5 turnovers. But we struggled all through that game. 4 of their turnovers came on drives that were in our territory including Favre's last pick. We really did struggle that entire game, as our offense really couldn't get much together. Even with all those turnovers we needed OT to barely get past that team. The 2010 defense ranked higher in stats but the turnovers were gone and I don't know what the hell happened in the playoffs where they just collapsed to the floor. True too about 2011. It's why I didn't believe in that team. Everyone acts like they were some robbed SB contender, but that defense was god awful. In the wildcard game vs Detroit, they gave up 28 points and Payton didn't trust them in the end to the point he went for it on 4th down twice and ran the score up to put the game out of reach.

01-11-2020, 07:00 PM	#9
dskyyksd Registered Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 73	Re: 49ers are scary good I blew a fuse when the &%$#@! Seahawks died at the one inch line against the 49ers two weeks ago, forcing the 13-3 Saints to play another damn wildcard game against the &%$#@*! Vikings. I KNEW it would screw the Saints again somehow. Nice teamwork! I hate those two teams more than any other. All they know how to do is get in the Saints' way and roll over and play dead for somebody else! Sainters7 likes this.
dskyyksd Registered Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 73

01-11-2020, 06:42 PM	#10
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: 49ers are scary good Originally Posted by CHA_CHING If Payton could, he'd probably bring back Gregg Williams and most of this fan base would be happy with that. GW gets way too much credit for our SB win. They were a middle of the pact defense (didn't rank better than 21 in ANY statistical category) outside of getting a bunch of turnovers. We had a top 3 ranked offense and were in the top 5 all year on rushing. Our offense don't really get the praise it deserved for 2009. They were neck to neck with the Colts all year long. When the turnovers didn't happen though with Williams, those teams always struggled. I would STILL love to have Wade Phillips come in as DC. I know that is controversial opinion for some reason with fans, but I like Wade and think he could work wonders with the talent we have. I fear we're going to be in for a rude awakening next year with Nolan gone. He is mainly to thank for why we've had great LB coverage play and a pass rush the last 3 seasons. Our defense immediately turned a corner when he came in. I think what people don't want anything to do with Wade is the personnel changes that will have and need to be made. Some guys won't fit and some pieces will need to be added with little cap.