On stat sites, guys debate how good Archie truly was, cause he really did not elevate the Saints in those early years.

The Saints actually lost more games after he was drafted, which is the opposite of the old claim that a good QB will get you a few wins the team would've lost without them.

The flip side to this is that Manning was pretty much ruined before he could've even got started and that's a fair argument to push. He was sacked over 50+ times in those first two seasons and when he finally started to hit his peak as a player, the damage was done.

I think Archie is the greatest "what if" argument in NFL stat realms cause BOTH arguments have their points and it's really impossible to take sides. He's one of the very, very few players in history and through stats where there is a common ground in the middle where both sides are right.

I've long believed this is why Archie didn't want Eli going to San Diego. He probably told him "don't go to a team with horrible management, you'll end up like me." and that prompted his decision to refuse to go there. I don't entirely fault Eli for this or blame Archie for wanting something better for his son. John Elway did it too and he knew what the hell he was doing by avoiding the mess with the Colts organization in those years.