Saints: A good offseason?
 

As the Saints report to camp, I look back at offseason so far, and have to say that I am pleasantly surprised. The Saints have already signed all of their rookies aside from Brown, whose deal seems to be forthcoming.

In addition, they sgned Deuce long-term, are working with Bentley, McKenzie, and now it's rumored that the team is trying to sign Howard long-term. Added Dwight Smith, and Jermaine Mayberry, and a steady backup in Antowain Smith, plus Hakim, Poole, and Meier. Everyone is currently healthy. Not a bad offseason so far... and I ususally don't say that. Hat's off to Loomis for working the numbers. Now let's see what Haslett can do with these guys. Still, right now I'm fairly upbeat, which is strange for me at this point... or any point really. LOL.


Hey Kool and Whodi, I thought we couldn't sign our rookies without trading Howard. LOL LOL LOL LOL.

Nanny nanny poo poo. :)

Hmm, seems like we released Ruff and Rodgers, re-did Joe, and re-did Deuce, which gave us more money. Seems like ALL these things happened after that discussion. Man, when you're off base Who, you yell it to the rooftops huh? :P

And who said Howard was getting a long term deal? I read they were working on Bentley and MM, nothing on Howard. Bit premature hey? :wink:

I give us a good solid b on our offseason. (Assuming Mike,Fakhir, and Brown are on the field on 9/11).
My complaint is adding nobodies at LB (even though I like Finch).

One fairly quiet thing we don't really complain about is Carney. His leg was dead last year and he's old. For a team that has struggled in the red zone, you need a guy who is dead on inside of 45 yards. He could be a bigger problem than we think this year. His misses always seem to happen at the worst possible times.

Well perhaps they are working on a long term deal with Howard to trade him. Not to be morbid or anything but the Eagles will be probably be looking for one.

In anycase -- I think the offseason was a success -- I would have liked to see a strong DT or Linebacker added to the mix but I think the players they did get were quality players who filled specific needs on our team.

I'm fully involved in the annual pre-season blast of glowing optimism.

I'm pleased with the Horn signing. I'm elated about the Deuce signing. If we can get a long term deal with LeCharles and one of the CBs and get Brown into camp by Monday, I'd consider this a very successful late off-season. (still not sure what I think about the draft).

Since WhoDat has started the little Mea Culpas, I'm shocked that Brooks hasn't decided to hold out for a McNabb/Culpepper/Vick/Manning style mega deal.

But as all Saints fans are, I'm keeping my fists up. This franchise teaches that as soon as you give into reckless optimism, you get blindsided by week 3.

I complained about Carney. I wanted us to get Edinger from the Bears, and even hoped we would draft Nugent. I am on board with the Carney has to go train.

I complained about Carney. I wanted us to get Edinger from the Bears, and even hoped we would draft Nugent. I am on board with the Carney has to go train.

Yeah, I agree. Carney is a liability it seems.

As for screaming from the rooftops, I think that's what you and Kool were doing in May Whodi. :) I said, it'll all be OK, it'll all be OK. Even with Howard's $8 million cap number we'll sign all of our rookies, etc. Loomis is a master at that. But no! Horn had to go, Howard had to go, or else we won't sign any rookies!!!! LOL

Yup, it was gloom and doom back then. What's your point? Aren't you the same guy who claimed a victory when Joe Horn UNEXPECTEDLY did a 180 on his contract demands? Grain of salt. :P

No - I said from the start that it was posturing. But I did show that he was correct in saying that he was a top 5 WR, which for the last 5 seasons, he has been. Most of my arguing was with people who thought that the Saints would be better off with guys like Charles Rogers than Joe Horn, simply b/c Rogers is 24 and Horn, according to some who don't check their facts, will turn 57 this season.

Someone said Charles Rogers? You'd have to go find that post for me cause I simply do not believe that. And people should check their facts, Joe is turning 52 not 57. :wink:

if joes 52 then rice is 80

You guys wanna see something funny? Hey Whodi, at the end of 2005, how many WRs will be ranked higher than Joe Horn in the NFL's rankings? :)

Well, let's see, I know Whodat's number would be number one. But I can't go that high. Recommittment to running, fewer reads then take off for AB means no more just standing in the pocket and then zinging it downfield for Joe to make a diving catch, carry the two.....I don't know. Why don't you tell us where he will be ranked Who? I have no way of knowing exactly where Joe will rank out of what, 100 something receivers in the NFL. I bet he will be in the top 32. :wink:

A rave review for a WR who has been to 4 of 5 Pro Bowls. I'm not asking you to TELL me where he will be ranked, I know you can't do that, I'm asking you to PREDICT that number. C'mon Whodi - buck up son. LOL

So, predict a number based on what? My gut? My analysis of every receiver on every team on the NFL? My advanced knowledge of what injuries will take place and when? What am I making a pediction based on? His past numbers? Joe will be in the top 32, barring injury. :D

I'M WITH WD ON THIS ONE...........WE TALKED MANY TIMES HOW WE COULD KEEP HOWARD WITH THE KNOWN FACT PLAYERS WOULD BE RELEASED............BUT, WHO'S BRINGING UP THE PAST?..................GREASE IT WHILE YOU CAN WD, SMITTY

That's weak. I though you were at least man enough to step up and make a real prediction... unless you think Joe will finish behind about 30 other WRs. Weak Stewie... weak.

Weak? Why? So I could make some lame ass prediction like Joe will be 10th in the league, then when he is 8 you can somehow find a way to gloat even though you yourself have predicted nothing? What's weak is trying to pigeon hole someone into an answer they have no way of possibly knowing so you can have something to hold them to when the season is over. THAT'S weak.

So tell me Who:

Where will Brooks rank:
Deuce?
Joe?
Donte?
Ernie or Boo?

Please tell me. Remember, it's "weak" if you don't give me something to gloat over. :roll:

Easy, watch and learn

Brooks - 7th in yards, 9th in TDs, 18th in QB Rating, 22nd in Comp %

Deuce - 5th or so in yards rushing, 7th in TDs, 3rd or 4th in total yards from scrimmage.

Horn - Top 10 in receptions, yards, and TDs. Somewhere around 7th, 5th, and 5th...

Donte - 20 - 25 in receptions and yards. TDs could be all over the place. I'm not sure.

Ernie or Boo?? Compared to other TEs or all receivers? In either case, the answer is "not well."


Wow, how hard was that? It's a freaking guess Whodi. And guess what? At the end of the season, if I'm not 100% right, you can tell me so and I won't cry myself to sleep. And for the record, if you said 10th and Horn finished 8th, you really think I would have said anything? You've gotta allow for being wrong every now and again man, it happens to all of us. Some (me) less than others. LOL

I guess the difference is I really could care less where these players WILL rank in the league if we aren't winning. It's not a matter of worrying about being wrong, it's a matter of not caring. If Joe leads the league in every receiving category, and we are 8-8 or worse and not in the playoffs, who cares? That will just be another notch for a Joe isn't old argument. And rightfully so. It's all about hoping we make some noise this year, screw the small stuff. Where will they rank? I hope they rank 10-6 or better and make the playoffs. Other than that, it doesn't really matter.

That's funny coming from a guy that can't read a depth chart.

I sure did say it...and Sooner of later it will happen!!

8)

Thanks for saving me from falling out of the mellow mood I been in BNB. I doubt this guy will ever have an understanding of what anyone is trying to say, and the context in which it is being said. In fact, I doubt he understands 80% of what he himself says. Best to ingore it than be in another fight. The season is almost here, I am in too good a mood to be involved in petty personal squabbles, yet. :wink:

I don't think that I've agreed with BlackonBlack once yet, but I do agree with him here. You talk about individual player performances all day on this board whodi. You compare stats every single day. Now that I call on you to make a simple prediction you pull the stats don't matter card. C'mon. Have you been to Aaron Brooks' School of Leadership this summer too? :)

Wow. Just wow. I am going to assume the both of you know the difference between PREDICTING what someone's stats will be, and using stats SOMEONE HAS ALREADY ACHIEVED to show they are better than another player. Not that's just an assumption that you both know the difference between what has already happened, and guessing on what WILL happen. So if my assumption is correct, and you both know this difference, what is the point of these posts? TO call me out? Very ineffective if so, but a nice grasp at straws. Unless you can somehow show me that PREDICTING where a player will rank in stats in the future is the same as USING STATS ALREADY ACHIEVED to decide which player is better. I can't believe I just had to sit here and type this.

And where did I say stats don't matter? Talk about reaching. I said I don't care where OUR PLAYERS WILL RANK( I even capitalized the word WILL to put emphasis on it being the future) if we aren't in the playoffs. Nowhere in there does it say stats don't mattter. It says I don't care about PREDICTING RANKINGS. I care about the playoffs. Stats have only served to give us a measure of judging one player compared to another, but what has been the big picture? Us not in the playoffs. I even said if Joe puts up all those numbers again you would have more ammo for a Joe is not old debate. But I said PREDICTING STATS doesn't matter, but what does is that we have a successful season. Christ almighty.

Uh, this is exactly where you said it Whodi. Just b/c you didn't the exactly words, "stats don't matter," doesn't mean that your message doesn't come through in crystal clear color. But whatever man, I was just trying to have a little prediction contest. Nevermind. Kepp banging your fists on your chest about how right you are about the past without ever making any suggestion of how that might affect the future. It's noble work you're doing.

Funny how you didn't quote the part immediately following that:


And rightfully so. Hmm, sounds like someone who is saying stats don't matter. :roll: Nice try again. Grasping at straws cause I didn't wanna play some prediction game? The offseason can't be this boring right?

You guys sound like a couple of females......
But I think WhoDat got you pinned to the mat...
just say "uncle" and it'll all be over....

Thanks Cha Ching...

Whodi, what you said in this thread is of little consequence. You've got 3,643 posts. 3,500 of those included statistical information, made allusions to stats, or were in threads that evaluated players through the use of stats.

What's interesting is how much you rely on say the stats of two certain QBs when comparing the two as tremendously relevant, but then, in an argument about the play of a particular receiver, you argue that despite top 5 stats, the WR isn't really top 5 b/c of age and raw physical talent. Moreover, when I ask you to guess where said WR will finish the year, knowing full well that you can't realistically say that the guy won't be towards the top of the league, you make allusions that stats don't matter, it's all about wins. Nevermind the fact that individual player performances help teams earn wins. Nevermind that we're not talking about the success or failure of the team, only a particular player. But now, those things don't matter to you if the team isn't winning. Really? Why do AB's stats matter so much then? It's hypocritical, but whatever man. Play your game.

Are you serious? Explain to me how predicting something that has yet to happen is the same as using info already available to make an argument. Please, please PLEASE explain to me how that is remotely the same thing. Then when you do that, MAYBE you can tie a significance to me saying I DON'T CARE TO PREDICT STATS, as opposed to using stats ALREADY ACHIEVED to prove a point. Find one thread, ONE, where I PREDICTED someone's EXACT stats or rankings, and how they will come out better than someone else's. Just one. All you will find is posts where I have used STATS ALREADY ACHIEVED to prove a difference between two players. But by all means, since you are attempting to make me seem hypocritical, there should be ONE post where I said Player A will rank here next year in stats, while Player B will only rank here and PREDICTED where they will rank exactly. Just one, and your point is proven. I'll be waiting. There's almost 3600 to choose from. All you need is one. I don't even remember all the stuff I have posted and I am damn confident you won't find that.

And isn't Cha Ching the same dude that called you a hater in another thread? Grain of salt..................

Just keepin it real man........
you're funny...

So by your own statements then Whodi - you do not think AB is a problem for the Saints. Nor do you believe the defense is a problem. You believe that they WERE problems in the past, but make no claim, assumption, or implication as to how their past performances will affect the team in the future. Is that right? Give me a break. The only reason you use stats is to identify strengths and weaknesses of a player or of the team. And the only reason you do that is to identify areas of need/strength for FUTURE performances. Or is the only reason you come to this board to harp on the past?

So first it was that I implied stats are irrelevant, though those words never have been uttered from me in 3700 posts, and now it's I think there are no problems on the team cause I won't pick exact future rankings for a player. Okay. :roll:

You're not putting up much of an argument here Whodi. I'll tell you what - why not clear the air? Tell us all how relevant or irrelevant you think stats are and why you discuss them. Simply to talk, or does your analysis relate in any way shape or form to potential future performances?

For example, did allowing 7.3 points on average in the first quarter of games this season hurt the Saints? If so, do they need to fix that number? Do you think they can improve upon that number? If so, will that do anything for future performace?

Or how about another one. If Joe Horn gets hurt in week 1, will that affect the team? LOL

That is in the words of the Immortal Rick James:"Cold Blooded".
So, Joe was just standing around and when the rest of the offense broke down he was the recipient of "gift" zings down the field from AB?
Please.
Joe's #s may fall off this year with the supposed "run first" philosophy(which I totally agree with).
He WILL block downfield on running plays.
He WILL be the man to go to in play action pass plays.
Joe IS THE MAN!

Joe Horn = 6th in receptions, 8th in total yards, and 10th in TDs......
Donte Stallworth = 18th in receptions, 14th in total yards, and 12th in TDs.




If anybody is still interested in Whodats question....... :wink:

That's cause there is no argument WhoDat. You're not making any sense. I wouldn't predict EXACTLY where Joe would rank like you wanted, and you pitched a hissy about how you re-read my words and I was saying stats are irrelevant. Which was BS. So then you came back with, well, you are saying we have no problems on the team cause you won't predict EXACT future stats for a player. Huh? What is the point? You can look at a previous year's stats, which ALREADY HAPPENED, and make a determination of how they may be better or worse, or what the team may have done to make them better or worse. That does not mean you have to give an EXACT RANKING for where they will be. If I say the Saints defense should be better than dead last in yards this season, that is not the same as saying the Saints defense will be number 18 in run yards allowed and 14 in passing yards allowed and will be ranked overall at 16 in the league. I would simply say they shouldn't be last. I don't have to make an exact numerical prediction on that to make my feelings known.

Let's go with your arguments Who, and make this easy.

1. Find anywhere where I ever said stats are irrelevant.
2. Find anywhere where I predicted an EXACT future ranking for a player

Should be easy no?

Your question starts with DID, meaning past and already happened. I have been saying this for 8 posts now, I have no problem with discussing stats that have already happened, and you ask a question with that. You can't be for real. Then your second question is a yes or no question, with NO NEED FOR AN EXACT PREDICTION ON WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. Then your third is another yes or no question, with no need for an exact future ranking. And your last question also can be answered without predicting an EXACT FUTURE RANKING. Damn, you killed your own foolishness. Nice job. You asked exactly ZERO questions that required AN EXACT FUTURE RANKING, which was what got this silliness started in the first place. Wow. :roll: [/quote]

Sure Whodi... whatever you gotta tell yourself to sleep well at night.

I'm sure if the Saints go 11-5 and AB has a 52% completion percentage and a 75 QB rating you won't say a word about him... right?

I'll expect not to hear any negative talk about any player on the team whatsoever from you this season so long as the Saints have a winning record. That's all that matters, right? Individual stats are irrelevant at that point... LOL

So you mean, after all this time, all the capitalizing and emphasizing of words, you STILL have not caught on to the simple concept of PREDICTING STATS, and DISCUSSING STATS ALREADY ACHIEVED? SO you mean to tell me that you do not realize than when the season is over, the stats will be recorded at that point, not guessed at, and thus can be used for a FACTUAL ANALYSIS instead of a Ouija board, pull something out your arse prediction? Still? STILL?

So you mean AB's completion percentage and rating will ALREADY BE RECORDED and thus I have no need to GUESS at where they will be? And I would be able to compare them to 32 other starting QBs cause they will also have been RECORDED, PAST TENSE? When the season is over? Brilliant WhoDat. Why didn't I say this 10 times already?

Let's go with your arguments Who, and make this easy.

1. Find anywhere where I ever said stats are irrelevant.
2. Find anywhere where I predicted an EXACT future ranking for a player

Should be easy no?

:shock: