Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 867530)

It's because I'm always right.

But, back to the discussion. The false premise that some of you are making is that the Saints "abandoned the run". That simply isn't true. They actually appeared to have called several running plays out of which Brees appeared to have audibled to the secondary pass call. Once again, as an offense you call plays depending upon what the defense shows. It makes no sense to try to run the ball on a 2nd and long if the defense is set to stop the run. A smart QB will "kill" the initial call and switch to the secondary pass play. Yes, ideally you would want to run the ball because less bad things can happen as the old saying goes. Yet the defense and circumstances during the flow also dictates when a run is the call. But, let's look at every running play and when they occurred.

1st possession:
1 10 NOR 25 Latavius Murray right guard for 1 yard (tackle by Takkarist McKinley)
2 9 NOR 26 Alvin Kamara left end for 8 yards (tackle by Deion Jones)
3 1 NOR 34 Latavius Murray right tackle for 6 yards (tackle by Deion Jones)
1 5 ATL 5 Latavius Murray right tackle for no gain (tackle by Kemal Ishmael)

The drive stalled after Murray's zero gain and the first sack.

2nd possession:
Drop by Tre'Quan and false start on Warford killed drive.

3rd possession:
2 1 NOR 19 Latavius Murray left tackle for 3 yards (tackle by Vic Beasley)
2 10 NOR 36 Alvin Kamara right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Tyeler Davison)

On 3rd and 4 Brees gets sacked again to kill the drive.

The Saints then got the ball back with 1:31 left on the clock in the first half and ran all pass plays which would be expected to save clock and reach field goal range.

Second half now.

1st possession:
2 6 NOR 29 Taysom Hill right end for 11 yards (tackle by Ricardo Allen and Damontae Kazee)
1 10 NOR 40 Alvin Kamara right tackle for 4 yards (tackle by Takkarist McKinley)

Stalled after a drop by Ginn.

2nd possession down 13-6:
1 10 ATL 38 Latavius Murray right guard for 2 yards (tackle by Foyesade Oluokun)

Another drop by Ginn.
2 2 ATL 15 Ted Ginn left end for 5 yards (tackle by Ricardo Allen)

At this point with 6:09 left in the 3rd period the Saints settled for a FG, yet they still had not "abandoned the run".

3rd possession now down 20-9:
1 10 NOR 46 Alvin Kamara left guard for 6 yards (tackle by Vic Beasley) <-- run again on 1st down in the 4th quarter

The next play was a completed 12 yard pass to Kamara, but Armstead held and it was 2nd and long. Cook drops the pass next play. forced to punt.

4th possession down 23-9 now:
Two sacks on Brees and another incompletion to Cook.

5th possession down 26-9 now:
You can now say they abandoned the run if you wish with 4:05 left in the game.

The run was a part of the game into the 4th quarter. Down and distance and the defense indicated a pass was the logical play in most instances, but dropped balls, sacks and penalties in the limited number of possessions gave the Saints little chance to even attempt to run after that point.

Looking back you have to notice that two of those most successful running plays were in fact trick plays to our Swiss army knife and stone hands Ginn.

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 867553)

First off, your entire position is flawed in that you presume to know what play was called before an audible was made. None of us knows what those plays would have been.

But considering the Saints inability to pass protect, there should have been an emphasis on running the ball, regardless of whatever Drew thought he saw. You just can't continue to be so predictable when you are already not pass protecting well.

And your attempt at showing down and distance dictating the lack of runs was just wrong. Again, they ran ELEVEN freaking times, Guido. We all know they got behind the chains with sacks. That's why you run on first down. That's why you call plays to maybe roll Drew out of the pocket and set up some screens. There are lots of innovative things a coach can do to, again, at least TRY to offset the pressure. Those things were NOT attempted.

You pointed out instances were there was a run for a minimal or no gain, as if to say "aha! so much for your run the ball theory!". I'll repeat... 11 runs. Kamara had 4 carries for 24 yards. Why did he only have 4 carries? You confoundingly stated that the run was a part of the game until the 4th quarter. It wasn't 26-9 in the first half. 11 carries, Guido. Why did they keep going back to what WASN'T working? They abandoned the run... Period. It doesn't matter if you are willing to accept that. The facts speaks for themselves, very loudly.

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 867553)

First off, your entire position is flawed in that you presume to know what play was called before an audible was made. None of us know what those plays would have been.

But considering the Saints inability to pass protect, there should have been an emphasis on running the ball, regardless of whatever Drew thought he saw. You just can't continue to be so predictable when you are already not pass protecting well.

And your attempt at showing down and distance dictating the lack of runs was just wrong. Again, they ran ELEVEN freaking times, Guido. We all know they got behind the chains with sacks. That's why you run on first down. That's why you call plays to maybe roll Drew out of the pocket and set up some screens. There are lots of innovative things a coach can do to, again, at least TRY to offset the pressure. Those things were NOT attempted. Certainly not to a degree that registers as being relevant, at the very least.

You pointed out instances were there was a run for a minimal or no gain, as if to say "aha! so much for your run the ball theory!". I'll repeat... 11 runs. Kamara had 4 carries for 24 yards. Why did he only have 4 carries? You confoundingly stated that the run was a part of the game until the 4th quarter. It wasn't 26-9 in the first half. 11 carries, Guido. Why did they keep going back to what WASN'T working? They abandoned the run... Period. It doesn't matter if you are willing to accept that. The facts speaks for themselves, very loudly.