Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement

02-19-2020, 04:02 PM

Maybe we tender Hill at 3.1 million, which is a second round pick if matched. We're not exactly flush with cash, but that seems fair to me.
Thoughts?

AsylumGuido · 02-19-2020, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Maybe we tender Hill at 3.1 million, which is a second round pick if matched. We're not exactly flush with cash, but that seems fair to me.
Thoughts?

No way in my book. Hill is worth more than that with the way he can contribute to our offense ... and not even at QB. He is well worth the $4.6 million tender amount for the first round pick. There is a good chance all teams would let him ride knowing they would have to contract him to a higher number than $4.6 million AND forfeit their first round pick. Given that we'd have him for the $4.6 million number.

If we slap the second round tender on him some team might be more willing to offer him a deal averaging $7 million per season, for example, knowing they would only be losing a second round pick. We could then only retain him by matching that $7 million or take the second rounder.

To me it is a slam dunk using the first round tag. Win/win.

And we have FAR more cap available than the current numbers show.

Crusader · 02-20-2020, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Based upon what criteria? The top 16 QB's in average salary are all making in excess of $20 million. So you are saying that Brees, in your opinion, belongs in the lower half of starting QB's, right?

Many would argue that Brees remains one of the top five, but surely one of the top ten QB's in the league today. $25 million per year is the tenth highest salary as of today in the NFL. The top five are all making $32 million per year or more.

Average schmaverage. We have a ton of younger guys that I'd rather see we spend the Money on and we have a couple of pretty big needs to fill to have a legitimate shot on a title.
I have pretty little patience with a player maybe wanting $30 million a year if that keeps us out of contention. Brees is top five but can't win it alone. He either cares about winning or getting paid. I don't care if its either one but if its the latter I just hope he is perfectly honest about it. And none of the "he needs to take care of his family" BS. None of his decendants will ever have to work if they don't squander the fortune he has amassed.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1...atrick-mahomes

ScottF · 02-20-2020, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

No way in my book. Hill is worth more than that with the way he can contribute to our offense ... and not even at QB. He is well worth the $4.6 million tender amount for the first round pick. There is a good chance all teams would let him ride knowing they would have to contract him to a higher number than $4.6 million AND forfeit their first round pick. Given that we'd have him for the $4.6 million number.

If we slap the second round tender on him some team might be more willing to offer him a deal averaging $7 million per season, for example, knowing they would only be losing a second round pick. We could then only retain him by matching that $7 million or take the second rounder.

To me it is a slam dunk using the first round tag. Win/win.

And we have FAR more cap available than the current numbers show.

Agree- I would be fine with him at $4.6m
Disagree- I don't think any team is going to give up it's #1 for him and match it

AsylumGuido · 02-20-2020, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

Average schmaverage. We have a ton of younger guys that I'd rather see we spend the Money on and we have a couple of pretty big needs to fill to have a legitimate shot on a title.
I have pretty little patience with a player maybe wanting $30 million a year if that keeps us out of contention. Brees is top five but can't win it alone. He either cares about winning or getting paid. I don't care if its either one but if its the latter I just hope he is perfectly honest about it. And none of the "he needs to take care of his family" BS. None of his decendants will ever have to work if they don't squander the fortune he has amassed.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1...atrick-mahomes

If he gets a dollar under $32 million per year he is giving a hometown deal. The NFL is a business first and foremost. The players are all in it to make the most that they can the quickest that they can because every play could be their last. And that's as it should be. Many fans are under the delusion that we pay their salaries and have a right to be concerned about what they get paid. The fact is that ticket prices are a drop in the bucket of the $14.5 billion in annual revenues generated by the NFL.

If you read the article you would have seen this ...

"It’s overly simplistic to say that paying a quarterback a lot of money prohibits a team from being successful. New Orleans’s Drew Brees, Indianapolis’s Andrew Luck, and Seattle’s Russell Wilson each make over $20 million a year. We’re dealing with a small sample size, but what is clear from the 2018 season is that there are too many quarterbacks being paid like superstars. And it’s very bad for team-building if your highly paid quarterback doesn’t play like a superstar."

Drew Brees is a superstar and deserves to be paid as a superstar because he can win games on his own.

The article uses Mahomes as an example for success. There's the mistake. Mahomes is a generational type of player. For every Mahomes there are 100 low paid QB's that cannot take a team to the promised land with the best of rosters. The Chiefs are successful not because of Mahomes' salary, but because of his talent. Talent trumps all (except for luck) win it comes to winning QB's.

AsylumGuido · 02-20-2020, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Agree- I would be fine with him at $4.6m
Disagree- I don't think any team is going to give up it's #1 for him and match it

That's the consensus of the analysts I have heard on the matter. There are too many unknowns for a team to take a chance with their first round pick on Hill. But a second rounder is another story. If we truly want to keep him then the first round tag is the way to go.

Unless we can work out a long term backloaded deal with him instead.

Crusader · 02-20-2020, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If he gets a dollar under $32 million per year he is giving a hometown deal. The NFL is a business first and foremost. The players are all in it to make the most that they can the quickest that they can because every play could be their last. And that's as it should be.

I truly don't give a **** about all that "its a business", "next play could be their last" and all that hoopla. Yeah sure if the player is a low round draft pick, a career backup or such and they get a chance to strike it rich well then by all means go for it.
Brees on the other hand has made close to $250 million (according to business insider) over his career and he is at the point where he has to choose between milking every penny he can or trying to win one more title.

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Many fans are under the delusion that we pay their salaries and have a right to be concerned about what they get paid. The fact is that ticket prices are a drop in the bucket of the $14.5 billion in annual revenues generated by the NFL.

Without fans in the stands no huge TV-contracts, no merch sales and so on. It is all connected. If the fans decide they won't buy the product anymore due to whatever reason the NFL will feel it sooner or later. The fans have a right to be concerned about whatever the hell they like when it comes to the teams they support. Without the fans there would be no teams in just a short while.

AsylumGuido · 02-20-2020, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Crusader

I truly don't give a **** about all that "its a business", "next play could be their last" and all that hoopla. Yeah sure if the player is a low round draft pick, a career backup or such and they get a chance to strike it rich well then by all means go for it.
Brees on the other hand has made close to $250 million (according to business insider) over his career and he is at the point where he has to choose between milking every penny he can or trying to win one more title.

Without fans in the stands no huge TV-contracts, no merch sales and so on. It is all connected. If the fans decide they won't buy the product anymore due to whatever reason the NFL will feel it sooner or later. The fans have a right to be concerned about whatever the hell they like when it comes to the teams they support. Without the fans there would be no teams in just a short while.

But the fact is those fans still show up regardless of what players get paid. You are in a very small minority. The vast majority of fans don't give a **** what a player makes. You are welcome to stay at home and even tune out completely. It isn't going to make a bit of difference. The way YOU feel is not the players' problem. It is a YOU problem.

What YOU fail to understand is that you are in a microscopic minority. If people really felt the way you do there wouldn't be record revenues every year. I've heard the exact same gripes for the past 30 years from a vocal few, yet the game keeps growing and will continue to grow for the foreseeable future.

You are wasting your time and energy *****ing and moaning about it. Just be happy you have football to watch and enjoy. If you aren't enjoying it you are free to stop.

Crusader · 02-21-2020, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

But the fact is those fans still show up regardless of what players get paid. You are in a very small minority. The vast majority of fans don't give a **** what a player makes. You are welcome to stay at home and even tune out completely. It isn't going to make a bit of difference. The way YOU feel is not the players' problem. It is a YOU problem.

What YOU fail to understand is that you are in a microscopic minority. If people really felt the way you do there wouldn't be record revenues every year. I've heard the exact same gripes for the past 30 years from a vocal few, yet the game keeps growing and will continue to grow for the foreseeable future.

You are wasting your time and energy *****ing and moaning about it. Just be happy you have football to watch and enjoy. If you aren't enjoying it you are free to stop.

Interesting how you completely miss the point but spend an awful lot of words being condesending. Thats a YOU problem.

AsylumGuido · 02-21-2020, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

Interesting how you completely miss the point but spend an awful lot of words being condesending. Thats a YOU problem.

I'm not missing the point at all. You have the right to your opinion. Just because I point out the fact that the vast majority of fans really don't care about your concern appears to put your panties in a wad.

02-19-2020, 04:02 PM	#21
Threaded by ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324 Rating: (0 votes - average) Maybe we tender Hill at 3.1 million, which is a second round pick if matched. We're not exactly flush with cash, but that seems fair to me. Thoughts?
Views: 4138

02-19-2020, 04:14 PM	#22
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by ScottF Maybe we tender Hill at 3.1 million, which is a second round pick if matched. We're not exactly flush with cash, but that seems fair to me. Thoughts? No way in my book. Hill is worth more than that with the way he can contribute to our offense ... and not even at QB. He is well worth the $4.6 million tender amount for the first round pick. There is a good chance all teams would let him ride knowing they would have to contract him to a higher number than $4.6 million AND forfeit their first round pick. Given that we'd have him for the $4.6 million number. If we slap the second round tender on him some team might be more willing to offer him a deal averaging $7 million per season, for example, knowing they would only be losing a second round pick. We could then only retain him by matching that $7 million or take the second rounder. To me it is a slam dunk using the first round tag. Win/win. And we have FAR more cap available than the current numbers show. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-20-2020, 07:26 AM	#23
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Based upon what criteria? The top 16 QB's in average salary are all making in excess of $20 million. So you are saying that Brees, in your opinion, belongs in the lower half of starting QB's, right? Many would argue that Brees remains one of the top five, but surely one of the top ten QB's in the league today. $25 million per year is the tenth highest salary as of today in the NFL. The top five are all making $32 million per year or more. Average schmaverage. We have a ton of younger guys that I'd rather see we spend the Money on and we have a couple of pretty big needs to fill to have a legitimate shot on a title. I have pretty little patience with a player maybe wanting $30 million a year if that keeps us out of contention. Brees is top five but can't win it alone. He either cares about winning or getting paid. I don't care if its either one but if its the latter I just hope he is perfectly honest about it. And none of the "he needs to take care of his family" BS. None of his decendants will ever have to work if they don't squander the fortune he has amassed. https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1...atrick-mahomes halloween 65 and K Major like this.
	W.T. Sherman is my favorite General. After all he did order Atlanta to be burned to the ground.

02-20-2020, 07:46 AM	#24
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by AsylumGuido No way in my book. Hill is worth more than that with the way he can contribute to our offense ... and not even at QB. He is well worth the $4.6 million tender amount for the first round pick. There is a good chance all teams would let him ride knowing they would have to contract him to a higher number than $4.6 million AND forfeit their first round pick. Given that we'd have him for the $4.6 million number. If we slap the second round tender on him some team might be more willing to offer him a deal averaging $7 million per season, for example, knowing they would only be losing a second round pick. We could then only retain him by matching that $7 million or take the second rounder. To me it is a slam dunk using the first round tag. Win/win. And we have FAR more cap available than the current numbers show. Agree- I would be fine with him at $4.6m Disagree- I don't think any team is going to give up it's #1 for him and match it

02-20-2020, 07:47 AM	#25
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by Crusader Average schmaverage. We have a ton of younger guys that I'd rather see we spend the Money on and we have a couple of pretty big needs to fill to have a legitimate shot on a title. I have pretty little patience with a player maybe wanting $30 million a year if that keeps us out of contention. Brees is top five but can't win it alone. He either cares about winning or getting paid. I don't care if its either one but if its the latter I just hope he is perfectly honest about it. And none of the "he needs to take care of his family" BS. None of his decendants will ever have to work if they don't squander the fortune he has amassed. https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1...atrick-mahomes If he gets a dollar under $32 million per year he is giving a hometown deal. The NFL is a business first and foremost. The players are all in it to make the most that they can the quickest that they can because every play could be their last. And that's as it should be. Many fans are under the delusion that we pay their salaries and have a right to be concerned about what they get paid. The fact is that ticket prices are a drop in the bucket of the $14.5 billion in annual revenues generated by the NFL. If you read the article you would have seen this ... "It’s overly simplistic to say that paying a quarterback a lot of money prohibits a team from being successful. New Orleans’s Drew Brees, Indianapolis’s Andrew Luck, and Seattle’s Russell Wilson each make over $20 million a year. We’re dealing with a small sample size, but what is clear from the 2018 season is that there are too many quarterbacks being paid like superstars. And it’s very bad for team-building if your highly paid quarterback doesn’t play like a superstar." Drew Brees is a superstar and deserves to be paid as a superstar because he can win games on his own. The article uses Mahomes as an example for success. There's the mistake. Mahomes is a generational type of player. For every Mahomes there are 100 low paid QB's that cannot take a team to the promised land with the best of rosters. The Chiefs are successful not because of Mahomes' salary, but because of his talent. Talent trumps all (except for luck) win it comes to winning QB's.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

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02-20-2020, 07:51 AM	#26
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by ScottF Agree- I would be fine with him at $4.6m Disagree- I don't think any team is going to give up it's #1 for him and match it That's the consensus of the analysts I have heard on the matter. There are too many unknowns for a team to take a chance with their first round pick on Hill. But a second rounder is another story. If we truly want to keep him then the first round tag is the way to go. Unless we can work out a long term backloaded deal with him instead. Rugby Saint II likes this.

02-20-2020, 03:01 PM	#27
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If he gets a dollar under $32 million per year he is giving a hometown deal. The NFL is a business first and foremost. The players are all in it to make the most that they can the quickest that they can because every play could be their last. And that's as it should be. I truly don't give a ** about all that "its a business", "next play could be their last" and all that hoopla. Yeah sure if the player is a low round draft pick, a career backup or such and they get a chance to strike it rich well then by all means go for it. Brees on the other hand has made close to $250 million (according to business insider) over his career and he is at the point where he has to choose between milking every penny he can or trying to win one more title. Originally Posted by AsylumGuido** Many fans are under the delusion that we pay their salaries and have a right to be concerned about what they get paid. The fact is that ticket prices are a drop in the bucket of the $14.5 billion in annual revenues generated by the NFL. Without fans in the stands no huge TV-contracts, no merch sales and so on. It is all connected. If the fans decide they won't buy the product anymore due to whatever reason the NFL will feel it sooner or later. The fans have a right to be concerned about whatever the hell they like when it comes to the teams they support. Without the fans there would be no teams in just a short while. K Major likes this.
	W.T. Sherman is my favorite General. After all he did order Atlanta to be burned to the ground.

02-20-2020, 03:37 PM	#28
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by Crusader I truly don't give a ** about all that "its a business", "next play could be their last" and all that hoopla. Yeah sure if the player is a low round draft pick, a career backup or such and they get a chance to strike it rich well then by all means go for it. Brees on the other hand has made close to $250 million (according to business insider) over his career and he is at the point where he has to choose between milking every penny he can or trying to win one more title. Without fans in the stands no huge TV-contracts, no merch sales and so on. It is all connected. If the fans decide they won't buy the product anymore due to whatever reason the NFL will feel it sooner or later. The fans have a right to be concerned about whatever the hell they like when it comes to the teams they support. Without the fans there would be no teams in just a short while. But the fact is those fans still show up regardless of what players get paid. You are in a very small minority. The vast majority of fans don't give a what a player makes. You are welcome to stay at home and even tune out completely. It isn't going to make a bit of difference. The way YOU feel is not the players' problem. It is a YOU problem. What YOU fail to understand is that you are in a microscopic minority. If people really felt the way you do there wouldn't be record revenues every year. I've heard the exact same gripes for the past 30 years from a vocal few, yet the game keeps growing and will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. You are wasting your time and energy ***ing and moaning about it. Just be happy you have football to watch and enjoy. If you aren't enjoying it you are free to stop.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-21-2020, 07:31 AM	#29
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 8,025	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by AsylumGuido But the fact is those fans still show up regardless of what players get paid. You are in a very small minority. The vast majority of fans don't give a ** what a player makes. You are welcome to stay at home and even tune out completely. It isn't going to make a bit of difference. The way YOU feel is not the players' problem. It is a YOU problem. What YOU fail to understand is that you are in a microscopic minority. If people really felt the way you do there wouldn't be record revenues every year. I've heard the exact same gripes for the past 30 years from a vocal few, yet the game keeps growing and will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. You are wasting your time and energy ***ing and moaning about it. Just be happy you have football to watch and enjoy. If you aren't enjoying it you are free to stop. Interesting how you completely miss the point but spend an awful lot of words being condesending. Thats a YOU problem.

02-21-2020, 07:52 AM	#30
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Ten Educated Guesses On All The 2020 Offseason QB Movement Originally Posted by Crusader Interesting how you completely miss the point but spend an awful lot of words being condesending. Thats a YOU problem. I'm not missing the point at all. You have the right to your opinion. Just because I point out the fact that the vast majority of fans really don't care about your concern appears to put your panties in a wad.

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