Saints Draft Days Official Thread

AsylumGuido · 04-25-2020, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

Per Larry Holder

It took 84 points for that pick and we gave up 76

Looks like we stole him. We screwed the Vikings for once.

spkb25 · 04-25-2020, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Looks like we stole him. We screwed the Vikings for once.

to some extent I agree. And I personally like the pick, a lot. What we gave up wasn't the most intelligent, but let's see what we do today. Maybe we surprise... again

AsylumGuido · 04-25-2020, 08:21 AM

As a side note, 65%, on average, of draft picks do not make the final roster and that includes picks made in the first two days. It's probably closer to 85% of players drafted in the final four rounds that fail to make a roster. Odds are we gave up nothing of value to get a potential starter. Not bad at all.

Of course, for those into the draft as an event, I can see the disappointment. It's entertaining to see who we pick late even if there little to no chance of them making the squad.

jeanpierre · 04-25-2020, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

As a side note, 65%, on average, of draft picks do not make the final roster and that includes picks made in the first two days. It's probably closer to 85% of players drafted in the final four rounds that fail to make a roster. Odds are we gave up nothing of value to get a potential starter. Not bad at all.

Of course, for those into the draft as an event, I can see the disappointment. It's entertaining to see who we pick late even if there little to no chance of them making the squad.

Which is exactly why you want as many draft picks as possible...

spkb25 · 04-25-2020, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Which is exactly why you want as many draft picks as possible...

Thats a good point, crap shoot

if we end up with 3 starters than we win .

Its going to depend on Cesar, baun, and trautman

AsylumGuido · 04-25-2020, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Which is exactly why you want as many draft picks as possible...

In Ireland I trust. He'd be the one that had our three targets all ranked in the top 40. I can understand your disappointment given your love for the draft. As I mentioned in the other thread, maybe we can pick up a couple of picks for Warford just for the entertainment value alone, even if they have virtually no chance of ever making a final cut.

We actually seem to do much better with UDFA's than with late round picks, anyway.

FinSaint · 04-25-2020, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

Per Larry Holder

It took 84 points for that pick and we gave up 76

I was wondering about this earlier, but I was too lazy to check out the math...

While giving up that many picks seems a lot - it's right on value (slightly undervalue) according to the trade chart.

jeanpierre · 04-25-2020, 08:04 AM

Athletically, Graham was faster (4.5 sec vs 4.8 sec), had longer arms, reach (35 in v 32 in), and larger hands (10.625 in vs 9.2 in) than Dayton Flyer Adam Trautman...

Make no mistake - physically, Trautman is a beast in his own right with maybe Notre Dame's Cole Kmet and Stanford's Colby Parkinson only notable talent being bigger...

Personally, in today's NFL, wouldn't want TE's that aren't at least 6' 5" with good arm length so they can post-up in the Red Zone are on 3rd downs...

But I guess what bothers me is that Belichick (or was it his dog Nike?) took two (2) TEs before Trautman; and then Payton spent four picks on Trautman...

And if Logan Wilson was so prized as is suggested, why didn't we spend four picks to get Wilson who'd be a better fit in our defense as a true MIKE?

Now, as said earlier, in an exchange with Chris, I like Baun and most players from the Wisconsin program (especially offensive line), but Baun is a 3-4 JACK, not a 4-3 SAM...

And from what I saw watching Wisconsin (also Iowa games) Baun was exposed in coverage when matched up against obvious NFL talent...

Maybe consider we're gonna start playing some 3-4 based on matchups; Baun will allow us to do that with some combination of Davis-Alonso-Anzalone-Baun/Hendrickson?

Only problem with that theory is D.A., who's cognitive ability seems limited to running his 4-3 system, and is unable/unwilling to build with what he's given...

Back to Trautman - this is where I broke with many models thought he should have been drafted considering the level of his competition where he was rarely, if ever, challenged...

But four (4) picks? Just feel Ireland could have found younger players that would have allowed us to get that roster age mean lower and some valuable cap relief, wiggle room...

No, not many rookies are gonna make this roster, but I personally believe that's something the team needs to fight - complacency - when this team needs a fire lit under its arse...

spkb25 · 04-25-2020, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Athletically, Graham was faster (4.5 sec vs 4.8 sec), had longer arms, reach (35 in v 32 in), and larger hands (10.625 in vs 9.2 in) than Dayton Flyer Adam Trautman...

Make no mistake - physically, Trautman is a beast in his own right with maybe Notre Dame's Cole Kmet and Stanford's Colby Parkinson only notable talent being bigger...

Personally, in today's NFL, wouldn't want TE's that aren't at least 6' 5" with good arm length so they can post-up in the Red Zone are on 3rd downs...

But I guess what bothers me is that Belichick (or was it his dog Nike?) took two (2) TEs before Trautman; and then Payton spent four picks on Trautman...

And if Logan Wilson was so prized as is suggested, why didn't we spend four picks to get Wilson who'd be a better fit in our defense as a true MIKE?

Now, as said earlier, in an exchange with Chris, I like Baun and most players from the Wisconsin program (especially offensive line), but Baun seems like more a 3-4 JACK...

And from what I saw watching Wisconsin (also Iowa games) Baun was exposed in coverage when matched up against obvious NFL talent...

Maybe consider we're gonna start playing some 3-4 based on matchups; Baun will allow us to do that with some combination of Davis-Alonso-Anzalone-Baun/Hendrickson?

Only problem with that theory is D.A., who's cognitive ability seems limited to running his 4-3 system, and is unable/unwilling to build with what he's given...

Back to Trautman - this is where I broke with many models thought he should have been drafted considering the level of his competition where he was rarely, if ever, challenged...

But four (4) picks? Just feel Ireland could have found younger players that would have allowed us to get that roster age mean lower and some valuable cap relief, wiggle room...

No, not many rookies are gonna make this roster, but I personally believe that's something the team needs to fight complacency when this team needs a fire lit under its arse...

The big issue is SP thinks we are more set on our roster than we are. He deems us a player or two away. Thats been his thought process going back to the davenport debacle. So yeah this is what lead to the 3 straight 7-9 outings and Ireland will be gone. Hes not making decisions anymore. Coronaking is back at it. He's no BB

halloween 65 · 04-25-2020, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Athletically, Graham was faster (4.5 sec vs 4.8 sec), had longer arms, reach (35 in v 32 in), and larger hands (10.625 in vs 9.2 in) than Dayton Flyer Adam Trautman...

Make no mistake - physically, Trautman is a beast in his own right with maybe Notre Dame's Cole Kmet and Stanford's Colby Parkinson only notable talent being bigger...

Personally, in today's NFL, wouldn't want TE's that aren't at least 6' 5" with good arm length so they can post-up in the Red Zone are on 3rd downs...

But I guess what bothers me is that Belichick (or was it his dog Nike?) took two (2) TEs before Trautman; and then Payton spent four picks on Trautman...

And if Logan Wilson was so prized as is suggested, why didn't we spend four picks to get Wilson who'd be a better fit in our defense as a true MIKE?

Now, as said earlier, in an exchange with Chris, I like Baun and most players from the Wisconsin program (especially offensive line), but Baun is a 3-4 JACK, not a 4-3 SAM...

And from what I saw watching Wisconsin (also Iowa games) Baun was exposed in coverage when matched up against obvious NFL talent...

Maybe consider we're gonna start playing some 3-4 based on matchups; Baun will allow us to do that with some combination of Davis-Alonso-Anzalone-Baun/Hendrickson?

Only problem with that theory is D.A., who's cognitive ability seems limited to running his 4-3 system, and is unable/unwilling to build with what he's given...

Back to Trautman - this is where I broke with many models thought he should have been drafted considering the level of his competition where he was rarely, if ever, challenged...

But four (4) picks? Just feel Ireland could have found younger players that would have allowed us to get that roster age mean lower and some valuable cap relief, wiggle room...

No, not many rookies are gonna make this roster, but I personally believe that's something the team needs to fight - complacency - when this team needs a fire lit under its arse...

Your 100% correct when you say you see Baun as a 3-4 jack, that is exactly how I see him, I really hope this isn't a square peg in a round hole pick.

04-25-2020, 08:11 AM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Originally Posted by spkb25 Per Larry Holder It took 84 points for that pick and we gave up 76 Looks like we stole him. We screwed the Vikings for once.

04-25-2020, 08:12 AM	#2
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,144	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Looks like we stole him. We screwed the Vikings for once. to some extent I agree. And I personally like the pick, a lot. What we gave up wasn't the most intelligent, but let's see what we do today. Maybe we surprise... again

04-25-2020, 08:21 AM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread As a side note, 65%, on average, of draft picks do not make the final roster and that includes picks made in the first two days. It's probably closer to 85% of players drafted in the final four rounds that fail to make a roster. Odds are we gave up nothing of value to get a potential starter. Not bad at all. Of course, for those into the draft as an event, I can see the disappointment. It's entertaining to see who we pick late even if there little to no chance of them making the squad.

04-25-2020, 08:26 AM	#4
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Originally Posted by AsylumGuido As a side note, 65%, on average, of draft picks do not make the final roster and that includes picks made in the first two days. It's probably closer to 85% of players drafted in the final four rounds that fail to make a roster. Odds are we gave up nothing of value to get a potential starter. Not bad at all. Of course, for those into the draft as an event, I can see the disappointment. It's entertaining to see who we pick late even if there little to no chance of them making the squad. *Which is exactly why you want as many draft picks as possible...*

04-25-2020, 08:28 AM	#5
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,144	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Originally Posted by jeanpierre *Which is exactly why you want as many draft picks as possible...* Thats a good point, crap shoot if we end up with 3 starters than we win . Its going to depend on Cesar, baun, and trautman

04-25-2020, 08:31 AM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Originally Posted by jeanpierre *Which is exactly why you want as many draft picks as possible...* In Ireland I trust. He'd be the one that had our three targets all ranked in the top 40. I can understand your disappointment given your love for the draft. As I mentioned in the other thread, maybe we can pick up a couple of picks for Warford just for the entertainment value alone, even if they have virtually no chance of ever making a final cut. We actually seem to do much better with UDFA's than with late round picks, anyway.

04-25-2020, 08:18 AM	#7
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Originally Posted by spkb25 Per Larry Holder It took 84 points for that pick and we gave up 76 I was wondering about this earlier, but I was too lazy to check out the math... While giving up that many picks seems a lot - it's right on value (slightly undervalue) according to the trade chart.

04-25-2020, 08:04 AM	#8
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Athletically, Graham was faster (4.5 sec vs 4.8 sec), had longer arms, reach (35 in v 32 in), and larger hands (10.625 in vs 9.2 in) than Dayton Flyer Adam Trautman... Make no mistake - physically, Trautman is a beast in his own right with maybe Notre Dame's Cole Kmet and Stanford's Colby Parkinson only notable talent being bigger... Personally, in today's NFL, wouldn't want TE's that aren't at least 6' 5" with good arm length so they can post-up in the Red Zone are on 3rd downs... But I guess what bothers me is that Belichick (or was it his dog Nike?) took two (2) TEs before Trautman; and then Payton spent four picks on Trautman... And if Logan Wilson was so prized as is suggested, why didn't we spend four picks to get Wilson who'd be a better fit in our defense as a true MIKE? Now, as said earlier, in an exchange with Chris, I like Baun and most players from the Wisconsin program (especially offensive line), but Baun is a 3-4 JACK, not a 4-3 SAM... And from what I saw watching Wisconsin (also Iowa games) Baun was exposed in coverage when matched up against obvious NFL talent... Maybe consider we're gonna start playing some 3-4 based on matchups; Baun will allow us to do that with some combination of Davis-Alonso-Anzalone-Baun/Hendrickson? Only problem with that theory is D.A., who's cognitive ability seems limited to running his 4-3 system, and is unable/unwilling to build with what he's given... Back to Trautman - this is where I broke with many models thought he should have been drafted considering the level of his competition where he was rarely, if ever, challenged... But four (4) picks? Just feel Ireland could have found younger players that would have allowed us to get that roster age mean lower and some valuable cap relief, wiggle room... No, not many rookies are gonna make this roster, but I personally believe that's something the team needs to fight - complacency - when this team needs a fire lit under its arse...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

04-25-2020, 08:10 AM	#9
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,144	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Originally Posted by jeanpierre Athletically, Graham was faster (4.5 sec vs 4.8 sec), had longer arms, reach (35 in v 32 in), and larger hands (10.625 in vs 9.2 in) than Dayton Flyer Adam Trautman... Make no mistake - physically, Trautman is a beast in his own right with maybe Notre Dame's Cole Kmet and Stanford's Colby Parkinson only notable talent being bigger... Personally, in today's NFL, wouldn't want TE's that aren't at least 6' 5" with good arm length so they can post-up in the Red Zone are on 3rd downs... But I guess what bothers me is that Belichick (or was it his dog Nike?) took two (2) TEs before Trautman; and then Payton spent four picks on Trautman... And if Logan Wilson was so prized as is suggested, why didn't we spend four picks to get Wilson who'd be a better fit in our defense as a true MIKE? Now, as said earlier, in an exchange with Chris, I like Baun and most players from the Wisconsin program (especially offensive line), but Baun seems like more a 3-4 JACK... And from what I saw watching Wisconsin (also Iowa games) Baun was exposed in coverage when matched up against obvious NFL talent... Maybe consider we're gonna start playing some 3-4 based on matchups; Baun will allow us to do that with some combination of Davis-Alonso-Anzalone-Baun/Hendrickson? Only problem with that theory is D.A., who's cognitive ability seems limited to running his 4-3 system, and is unable/unwilling to build with what he's given... Back to Trautman - this is where I broke with many models thought he should have been drafted considering the level of his competition where he was rarely, if ever, challenged... But four (4) picks? Just feel Ireland could have found younger players that would have allowed us to get that roster age mean lower and some valuable cap relief, wiggle room... No, not many rookies are gonna make this roster, but I personally believe that's something the team needs to fight complacency when this team needs a fire lit under its arse... The big issue is SP thinks we are more set on our roster than we are. He deems us a player or two away. Thats been his thought process going back to the davenport debacle. So yeah this is what lead to the 3 straight 7-9 outings and Ireland will be gone. Hes not making decisions anymore. Coronaking is back at it. He's no BB

04-25-2020, 08:28 AM	#10
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Saints Draft Days Official Thread Originally Posted by jeanpierre Athletically, Graham was faster (4.5 sec vs 4.8 sec), had longer arms, reach (35 in v 32 in), and larger hands (10.625 in vs 9.2 in) than Dayton Flyer Adam Trautman... Make no mistake - physically, Trautman is a beast in his own right with maybe Notre Dame's Cole Kmet and Stanford's Colby Parkinson only notable talent being bigger... Personally, in today's NFL, wouldn't want TE's that aren't at least 6' 5" with good arm length so they can post-up in the Red Zone are on 3rd downs... But I guess what bothers me is that Belichick (or was it his dog Nike?) took two (2) TEs before Trautman; and then Payton spent four picks on Trautman... And if Logan Wilson was so prized as is suggested, why didn't we spend four picks to get Wilson who'd be a better fit in our defense as a true MIKE? Now, as said earlier, in an exchange with Chris, I like Baun and most players from the Wisconsin program (especially offensive line), but Baun is a 3-4 JACK, not a 4-3 SAM... And from what I saw watching Wisconsin (also Iowa games) Baun was exposed in coverage when matched up against obvious NFL talent... Maybe consider we're gonna start playing some 3-4 based on matchups; Baun will allow us to do that with some combination of Davis-Alonso-Anzalone-Baun/Hendrickson? Only problem with that theory is D.A., who's cognitive ability seems limited to running his 4-3 system, and is unable/unwilling to build with what he's given... Back to Trautman - this is where I broke with many models thought he should have been drafted considering the level of his competition where he was rarely, if ever, challenged... But four (4) picks? Just feel Ireland could have found younger players that would have allowed us to get that roster age mean lower and some valuable cap relief, wiggle room... No, not many rookies are gonna make this roster, but I personally believe that's something the team needs to fight - complacency - when this team needs a fire lit under its arse... Your 100% correct when you say you see Baun as a 3-4 jack, that is exactly how I see him, I really hope this isn't a square peg in a round hole pick.