Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I won't be watching any NFL games this season.

But I'm curious. Why does this matter to you, 'Guido? Are you the official blackandgold hall monitor? Do you really believe people require your approval of their opinion? What do you gain from compiling this pointless list? You go around here claiming that nothing bothers you, and that you "just enjoy life", and yet nearly all of your time on this site is spent belittling others who have CLEARLY bothered you with their opinions. Otherwise, you'd be sitting there, quietly enjoying whatever it is you're doing, instead of whining and complaining about every dissenting opinion from your own.

And it's not like you're arguing something important. No one has challenged or insulted your faith, your politics, your family, or even you by stating an opinion on what will happen to NFL viewership. A simple "I disagree" followed by a quick summary as to why, would suffice. Instead, your narcissistic self needed your own thread about it.

Do you treat everyone around you this way?

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Well I’m one of those who “lurks” on here gaining insight and knowledge about my Saints. This is the most civil, most of the time, and knowledgeable board I have ever been a member of. I rarely post much as I usually just read to gain news and understanding of the sport and team I have been a life long fan of. I never played organized football, just weekend pick up games, so I am limited on the lingo associated with the strategies of the game. I was always a baseball nut and I played growing up so I understand the ins and outs of that sport. I do make a point to like comments I agree with or support. In response to the question in the beginning I was very disgruntled and seriously considered dropping all major sports. However, as sports begins to start my dissatisfaction has waned. It’s just a shame that the one thing we could turn to to get away from the troubles of the world for a few hours a week now bring the world in and put it center stage. But I think once the whistle sounds it will be all business from then on. I am a truck driver so I rarely get to watch the games anymore. I have to rely on radio, highlights, this board, or replays posted on YouTube to keep up. So you can count me as one who will watch, when I can. :bng:

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I am just making a point, burningmetal, that a few of you refused to listen to. Three or four of you have insisted that the NFL would take a financial hit because of their political stance claiming basically that significant percentage of the normal viewership would tune out because of this stance.

What this thread is proving is that the same three or four members are the ONLY ones claiming that they would not watch football this year. This completely supports what I had been attempting to demonstrate though other means. If it makes you feel better personally if you tune out then fine. Good for you. But don't fall under the false assumption that it will have any material affect on the NFL's bottom line as the few of you have erroneously claimed.

burningmetal

That makes 2 definitely not watching, maybe 3.

Frydaddy Smurf could still watch with his fingers in his ears, I suppose. :D

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I pointed this out in the other thread, but Malcolm Jenkins is the only Saints player that has expressed any concern about playing. Janoris Jenkins was mistakenly mentioned in a headline two days ago on the SB Nation site while the actually story was about Malcolm. That's why I have always stressed not to only read headlines. The headline writers don't read the articles half the times themselves.

:D

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Guess he lied on his Twitter.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

How so? He has never mentioned anything about it on his Twitter. Malcolm Jenkins did, however, and that is what the article was about.

I follow Janoris Jenkins on Twitter and he has NEVER said anything about any reservations about playing because of COVID.

JackRabbit2.0
@JjenkzLockdown

Take time to read articles referred to by headlines, Dude. I know you are a very busy man, but making unfounded claims based upon erroneous headlines makes you look lazy and I know for a fact that you could not be lazy in your line of business.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Hmm, that's interesting. I don't remember making any comments recently about whether or not the league will take a financial hit. You're putting words in people's mouths, but, that's all semantics, because I can promise you the league WILL take a hit. To what extent? Well, now, that's a whole different conversation, isn't it? The fact that a lot of people will tune out, of course will have some financial impact. Is everyone going to stop watching? No. Will most stop watching? I doubt it.

I'll tell you what WILL ultimately bury the league, unless they change course: If they keep bowing to political correctness, from taking the physicality out of the game, to trying to dictate who gets hired, and who can say what, eventually there will be so much division that no one will want to work together, and the league will fold.

Want an example? Look around at the police officers who are walking off the job because of people telling them how to do their jobs and throwing them under the bus every time a CRIMINAL gets shot, even if the criminal provoked it. Political correctness destroys everything, and it WILL destroy the NFL, if they allow this to continue.

But you didn't answer my question. Why does this matter to you? You don't agree with people. Fine. So what? Why did this need to be it's own thread? I'll just answer for you: You can't get enough of yourself.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I made my own thread because I can. The fact that it gets your panties in a wad just shows that you have the problem. You were simply among the three or four people that said they would not watch the NFL. It may not have been you claiming all the financial impacts of your tiny minority, but you were included in the minuscule numbers.

What you fail to understand is that most people can intellectually separate entertainment from politics. When the whistle is blown the players can.

Enjoy your time away from the game. Like the old saying goes, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out."

:D

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Anyone CAN make a thread. That doesn't answer the question as to WHY you took a personal disagreement with what you've described as being only "3 or 4 posters" and made it into a thread. But that's alright, because everyone already knows the answer. You love attention.

The fact that I'm calling you out on it bothers you, and so you claim my "panties" are in a wad? Well isn't that hilariously hypocritical... Who was it that got HIS panties so wadded up about someone's opinion on what would happen to the NFL that he had to make a thread about it? Oh, wait, did you think you had the sole right to disagree on this board? You're making my point much more powerfully than I could have on my own. So thanks for that.

And let me make something clear to you: There is nothing "intellectual" about separating sports from politics, when sports BECOME political. Do you think people like me are not watching because we found out some of the players are Democrats? No, we're not watching because these spoiled little brats are hypocrites, crying racism as they rake in millions, while simultaneously proving that they, in fact, are racist. Silencing all thought that does not align with theirs, and demanding sympathy. I'm not entertained by that. When I think of entertainment, I think of an escape from politics and drama. That escape is gone.

You aren't bothered by any of that because you don't care. You have shifted your supposedly conservative views to align with theirs so that you can justify continuing to support them. I know that, because I observed it right here on this very board. I saw your shift in real time. Well, I'm not like you.

I've said things like this in the past, only to have certain posters accuse me of trying to elevate myself as some kind of heroic character. Which was confusing, considering all I did was give my opinion, and never demanded that anyone follow me. It's not a sacrifice I'm making. That would imply that I'm giving up something I love. I don't love the NFL anymore. And so the choice is easy. So before people like you go on a rant about things you don't know about me, again, let that fact be known. This is not a sacrifice by me.

So with that said, I'm not sure why you feel the need to rub my decision in my face, and tell me I'm part of the "tiny minority". I'm not interfering with your precious football time. You can have it. You can have all of it. I can't express to you how much I don't care what you watch. It is you who seemingly feels that you deserve some award for NOT discontinuing your fandom. You seem to have equated your commitment to football, to actually being a better person than me, and others who won't be watching. That's really quite pathetic.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I can only imagine the progress Earth could achieve if only you'd apply your intellectual and highly scientific methods to the basic problems of mankind.

As a former know-it-all myself, I realize what a great annoyance I can be to someone who actually does know it all.

But if we wanted to be intellectually honest, we would not create an informal survey on a Saints super-fan site asking a small handful of invested posters who have dedicated themselves 24/7, years on end (even before your time sir), to painstakingly chronicle every aspect of being a Saints fan...if they would not watch the Saints this year.

There could be a little bias there, but even so, let's give the devil his due.

What I have the most trouble with is the changing motivations and rationale behind the points that you are only trying to prove to yourself.

1. A relief from what, and an escape into what? Terrible traffic...bad hair day? OR maybe the escalating chaos around us that the NFL seems intent on dragging into its broadcasts? Not my idea of tranquil, but I'll give the devil his due. It's entertainment, nothing more, nothing less -- except that it isn't. Goodell has turned your beloved NFL into a repository for human interest stories. I don't care that Joe had 3 car accidents and ate beanie weenies throughout childhood and still became an inspirational figure...I just want football, honest football.

We get around 11 minutes of actual football action...the rest is made up of commercials, penalties, and replays. An escape into 2hrs 50mins of commercials, and penalties. You spend an entire year waiting for the playoffs, and it ends with the NFL saying "we missed that penalty"? Integrity MATTERS. Out of all the ticky tack penalties, you miss THAT? Trust MATTERS.

2. You let stuff roll off your back. This isn't true, and that's ok, I'm sensitive too.

3. "nor the viewing pleasure of all the rest of the fans"...am I not a fan? How are you quantifying "all the rest of em'"? Are you positive you're not applying your own assumptions? It doesn't take a majority of anything to affect the bottom line of anything.

Why do customer service departments exist? Surely, the majority of customers don't complain or return what they buy, do they? It takes an average of 10 repeat good experiences for a customer to return to a previous level of trust after a bad experience with a business, if ever. Even observing plainly that a couple people kneeling on the sideline affected the entire league.

Young people may or may not be replacing an aging demographic, why do you think they're trying to go international and cater to women? To make up for lost demographics. That's a problem. Ask Greece what low birthrate does to an economy. Younger people aren't replacing the aging and retiring work force, so basically pensions are slashed and over 10% of the population lives BELOW poverty level with a total income loss of 70%. Not exactly apples to apples, but decreasing young audience has implications for the future.

Sure, I know this all looks like idealistic ranting, but principle still matters to me, and a little pain now is worth a better future. Of course, I didn't invent football, I don't own it, and have no real claim to demand it to change if it doesn't want to. That's fine too I guess. I gotta go cut grass

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I'm watching!

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

If they stand, yes
If they kneel, so long my e-brothers and sisters. Won’t ever be watching

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I can’t wait.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

+1
I dont know, Guido. There's something b*llsh*tty about the crux of your post here. So you're making a list of posters who are put off by the player's BS enough to say "enough," and then you'll be, what? shaming them, if they watch a highlight
afterwards? For who for what? We're all free agents here. Football is not God. I've been more worshipful and devout to Football. That should tell you something.

If you need to believe Im a lone wolf, you should. You must have lost your mind, when they told you about Santa.
I still like you, Guido, really. I've gotten great vibes, and I know you're real. Burningmetals a long haired hippy, who probably still thinks Pink Floyd is brilliant. But he raises a good question. Its all good. We're all growing here.
It still is, as this board is populated with a larger number of grownups. Always worth your time to read, and comment.

Guido, this is not a bus, and you're not driving. If people want to get on, or get off, or stick a feather up their butt and call it macaroni, bobby brown says its their provocative. But I'm glad you aksed.

I really dont know what kind of core sample you'll get here for your research.

But you see, I'm not scared. Football WAS my religion, and the only color I ever cared was the jersey. But when I found out the true colors of the players, and their hostages, like Brees, I guess I saw the clay feet of my idols. Something has called me away.

I lived without football an entire season, when Kapersh*t did his ignorance a couple years ago, and I had a great time without it. Its not like the NFL is that watchable anymore.

I'm prepared to do so again. But, yes, I can qualify that. Its my right to get off or on your bus at Will. So here goes:

IF the players stand for the National Anthem with their hands over their hearts AND SING THE ANTHEM acapella for the stadium. AND if they make a very large donation to organizations which support the families of fallen police officers, AND they publicly apologize to the Police (the ones in blue, not Stewart, Andy & Sting), for slandering them, AND the NFLPA goes on record to recommend the resitting of the statues of Robert E. Lee and the flag of Mississippi, and also state that the Confederate Battle Flag is an acceptable historic display in public places, and that Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben are respected and acceptable trademarks, which should be re-instated, and that no one in this freakin country owes anyone anything, except the right to go out and work and succeed, , ,

then, count me to come back Marching In That Number, dressed as the insane, ridiculous fan, many people on this board remember me as, and I'll be, again, just a small part of that home field advantage, and I'll Live and Die Saints, and I'll organize tailgates, and roadies, and boils, and Saints gear will be my second skin, and I'll invite everyone in town to watch all the games as a party, and I'll again hire a freakin JAZZ BAND (all of whom happen to be black), out of my own pocket, in order to inspire the whole town to join our awesome party.

Otherwise my answer is (and you can send a private investigator to monitor)
NO. I will not be watching the Saints or any NFL game, and probably not any sport, outside of Rodeo.

There really are a lot of fun things to do on a beautiful Fall Day. I can send you a brochure. I live on a ranch, for starters.

As of now, I am not an NFL Fan, nor am I a Saints Fan.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I have a joke

A Narcissist and an APD (Anankastic) log into a forum..

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Go cut grass. It will have just as much affect on the bottom lines of the NFL as your not watching.

:D

It's strange but I don't see or read any of that into an NFL game when I watch.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I see some are missing my point entirely. The purpose of this survey is not questioning the reasoning behind a few people's personal decision to stop watching the NFL. Not at all. Go for it. The purpose was a response to a couple that claimed that their abstaining would lead to a revenue hit that would hurt the NFL. This survey in a small way demonstrates the tiny percentage of fleeing fans overall.

I am truly happy for your happiness if that's what you get from not watching. Good for you. Just understand, that in the end, your not watching affects no one but you and yours. That is the point I am making. If you no longer get any enjoyment out of the game, then by all means. Stop watching. Good decision. If politics and stuff in and around the game upsets you, then for your health and happiness you need to stop watching. But if it is solely meant to punish the NFL, then you are not going to accomplish your goal.

Throwing the baby out with the wash water.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

It might have been less painful to just breakdown the NFL's revenue by source. Once you do that the game watching impact is realized.

You might also want to point out that denying the NFL revenue by not watching your team only hurts the team and local economy. The teams make the revenue and kick up to corporate, the NFL is structured that way intentionally which is also why the NFL Corporate doesn't pay taxes, they have very little room for profit other than tickets to visit the Hall of Fame.

If that all fails you are beating your head against a brick wall. However, should you wish to continue, you might want to point out that NFL game viewing is not a webpage and they do not get paid by the click. Those contracts and payments have been worked out and will be paid out. Not watching the Saints on Sunday between 12:00-3:00 only affords a person time to spend quality time with their children and wives.:beatnik:

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I'll be watching but there will be revenue decline on my part. One, I've already got rid of the Sunday ticket and directv so that's a decline. Second, I'm one of the season ticket holders that sit in the first 8 rows that haven't been in full contact with a ticket rep to discuss my options. Only received an email so I don't know what their plans are for me. As of right now, I'm leaning towards crediting this years ticket cost to next year so that's easy $350 per game decline in revenue I spend to attend the games. Also figured not going to games this year will allow these whiny ******* to get the kneeling during the anthem out their system.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I'll be watching every bit. Still entertainment to me.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I'm slow, set aside the NFL for a minute and explain to me how tv networks get their money to pay the NFL?

If I contracted the NFL to cater a benefit I was having for my cancer foundation, and they showed up with highly controversial staff and subpar food, how is that going to help me recoup my money? Surely we would have to negotiate something.

Maybe it's in the contract that the NFL can do whatever they want and the networks have to televise their latest social campaigns. Many businesses are far too eager to pontificate and change logos at the drop of dime, so that could be the case with the networks too, so I could be wrong in assuming advertisers would even care in the first place. In which case, whatever, we aren't operating in rational times anyway.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

lol... You kinda got the long hair right (not really that long compared to what it used to be a few years ago). But I'm no hippie, and I never cared for Pink Floyd, nor was I alive when they were still popular. :P

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Back to the point, I agree with you. If people are still entertained by this sham of a league, who am I to tell them what to do with their time? I don't care if people watch. I'll say that I don't understand how anyone can find pleasure or enjoyment out of the NFL, anymore, but it is what it is.

For me, though, like you, I see the true colors of the members of this league and the level of disgust I feel makes it impossible for me to feel a sense of connection with the team. To me, that's the whole point of being a fan, is you develop an emotional connection where you identify with that team. I'm not entertained by watching sport for the sake of sport. So I am no longer a fan, and will not watch.

Why should I, or you, or anyone need to justify that to any particular person? And why do we need to be part of a majority in order for our personal convictions to be validated? It's not an election. That some people are offended that others won't watch (but claim they don't care if we watch) shows some kind of wild insecurity in them.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I'll bite. TV networks get almost all of their money from advertisers. Has it occurred to you that advertisers are the very reason WHY the NFL has changed their stance? Corporations all across the country are coming to terms that not following along with the prevalent wave of awareness will hurt their bottom lines. That's why so many have changed their televised advertising to reflect the same. They wouldn't want to advertise during NFL broadcasts if the league wasn't on the same page. That makes sense. The NFL is in the entertainment business. They make most of that business income off broadcasting contracts. The networks could easily be putting the pressure on the league to conform to their and the advertiser's liberal ideals.

I fear you have had the tail wagging the dog in your line of thinking.

;)

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I repeat ... I don't care if you watch or not. Honestly. Nor do I care for the reasons WHY you no longer care to watch. Unless you were one of the the few who claimed that the NFL would lose substantial revenue due to people refusing to watch, for whatever reason, then the point of this thread does not apply to you at all. It has NOTHING to do with your personal convictions. If one's personal convictions led them to toss a thimble of red chalk powder into the air every evening, it does not mean that they will change the color of the blue sky, whether they believe so or not.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

lolol... you werent alive during Pink Floyd? Good Lord you are so young... thats so cute.

I knew I'd have some fun w/ you. I used to get called a hippie too, because of my old hair. people assumed i toked. ha! I had to finally poke my supervisor in the side and signal him that he didnt have to protect me from drug tests. unless they were testing for Tennessee Bourbon.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Can you imagine how nasty, hateful, and personal this discussion would be, if it were on Site-X ?

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

lol... My friend, I know just what you mean. I've had random people walk up to me in parking lots asking if I had any pot. They were always surprised to learn that my long hair and rather slender frame was not the product of smoking weed.

By the way, I'm probably not as young as you think. Just young enough to escape the trappings of Pink Floyd when they were at their height, but old enough to remember rotary dial phones, Joe Satriani when he had hair, and those strange mullet with a bird nest in the front hairstyles that girls actually thought were stylish.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

'Guido, I've read all of your repeated claims to everyone, including me, that you don't care if we watch. The thing is that some of us know how to read between the lines.

You say you don't care, but you constantly say "this won't affect the league, no matter what you do". I never said I was going to take down the league, all by myself, nor did I say that everyone was going to stop watching all at once. So you don't have to guess what I think. I've told you what I think, and yet you make comments such as "don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out!". You want me to pretend that you aren't bothered by my personal choice, despite comments like that? I'm not an idiot. It's very obvious you have contempt for anyone who dares "turn their back on this team", because, throughout your history on this site, you've elevated your status as a "superfan" to make you better than everyone else.

It leaks into every discussion. If someone doesn't like an acquisition, they're morons for questioning the all-wise front office. If someone doesn't like a play call, they're an idiot for questioning the coaches. If someone criticizes a player, they're an idiot for thinking they know how to do that player's job better than them, as if ANYONE is ever making that argument. You consistently attack people with straw man arguments. And now that some people don't want to watch, you think they're idiots. And don't tell me I am misrepresenting you, because in YOUR OWN words you stated that "What you fail to understand is that most people can intellectually separate entertainment from politics." So you think people like me lack intellectual capability to "separate".

And, as I stated before, there is nothing intellectual about pretending there IS any separation between the NFL and politics, at this point. A lot of the people here who have stated that they will still watch, have even admitted that the political foolishness has ruined a lot of the fun for them. But they aren't ready to let go. I get that. At least they are honest about it.

But you have sided with the players, and their ridiculous hateful reaction toward Drew Brees, and claimed that they "worked it out like men", presumably so you could continue to enjoy this team in full. There is no way for an "intellectually" honest person to look at what happened and not come to the conclusion that Drew was shamed and bullied into changing his position. And for his part, Drew threw away his principles to keep his standing with the team. There was nothing unreasonable about Drew saying he didn't agree with the Anthem method of protest. The players say it wasn't about the anthem or the flag... How stupid does one have to be to take that argument seriously? If it wasn't about the flag and the "oppression" they think it represents, then why did they choose that time to do it? That flag represents our country, which many have fought and died for. If you perceive some kind of injustice, the anthem was a poor time to air that grievance in the opinion of millions of people. So even if the players maintain that it wasn't about the flag, they shouldn't expect THEIR opinions to be respected if they are utterly incapable of respecting anyone else's.

That's why I won't support them.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I repeat. I don't care if you or any others don't watch. Cool. You have reasons that make it unwatchable for you personally. I personally have different "feelings" concerning the roots of your reasons, but still respect your reasons. You are clearly not one of the ones I was addressing that claim to be abstaining from watching so that it will substantially affect the NFL's revenue. My whole point, once again, IS if someone thinks they are going to be punishing the NFL by not watching they are sadly mistaken. It's that simple. Refusing to watch because it is no longer entertaining to an individual is one thing, refusing to watch to give the NFL what they deserve in the pocketbook is another. That's hurting no one but themselves.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

An intellectually honest person would be objective and recognize that what Drew says is his business alone, and unless it comes from his mouth it is speculation. Even then, since he is a public figure, there is a high probability that what he says is not transparent and more messaging for a greater good.

An intellectually honest person might point out that flag kneeling, opinion tweeting, telling the world you aren't going to do something because of what someone else is going, are all by definition acts of virtue signaling. While the title of all of those acts might be different they are all at their core the same.

That s if intellectual honesty and objectivity are the basis for all of our discussions.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Oh, by the way, Will, I've been a Saints fan since I discovered the new state I had moved to was getting a team which was to start playing that Fall.

And I'm retired now. I've handed over most those duties of handling basic problems of mankind to others.

Edit: I may, however, do some contract work if compensated appropriately.

:D

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Saints report? If so, the posts I've been reading over the last few weeks on this very subject are actually civil and objective.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

You seem especially bitter about something, today. Cutting through the usual passive aggressive BS of your post to get to what is apparently your intent to suggest that I'm virtue signaling, allow me, if you are so inclined to indulge me for a moment, to explain to you what Virtue signaling means. And you can look it up yourself, lest you believe I'm making it up. It means to express an opinion or intended action, publicly, so as to demonstrate one's moral goodness, and upstanding character.

Seeing as how I'm not the one who started a thread ASKING people to tell if they will be watching or not, is my response to the question an act of virtue signaling? Did I say I was doing this because I believed it was the morally right thing to do? No, I said I won't be watching because I am disgusted with the league. Nowhere in that statement is there any implication that others are required to follow, or even agree with me, in order to be at "my" level of moral character. I went out of my way earlier in this thread to SPECIFICALLY STATE that I'm not doing this as some act of heroism or personal sacrifice. I said that it was actually an easy decision, because it's not a sacrifice to give up something you no longer love.

I made that clear for the sole purpose that I anticipated responses just like yours. I didn't ask myself if I was going to be watching. That was 'Guido.

Now, what about "intellectual honesty"? You seem to take issue with my use of those terms, but you clearly missed that it was in response to AG's comment of "most people can intellectually separate entertainment from politics". Being that we were on the subject of intellectual reasoning, it seems to me that it does, indeed, take an intellectually dishonest person to believe that Drew Brees just suddenly changed his stance on his own.

Now, you can split hairs and be a grump while telling me that this is mere speculation, but if you're going to follow that logic to it's conclusion then there is no basis for ever trying to reason with anything, or anyone. Because everyone's opinion is their business, and no one can question it, even if there is context that calls something into question. Drew, just like everyone else, is entitled to an opinion. And with that said, it was his opinion that was stomped on, screamed at, cursed at, and relentlessly shamed.

Then, he comes out singing a new tune. I'm not sure what planet you were raised on, but where I come from, men don't handle disagreements like children, and men also don't change their principles in 24 hours or less, unless God gets a hold of them. These were hateful, vitriolic BOYS who got upset, and Drew caved. Is that speculation? I'm sure you'd say so. But the idea of being intellectually honest with one's self is not about whether you know a certain thing for a fact; it's about whether or not it makes any logical sense. For instance: People don't always know when their spouse is cheating on them, but when there is a clear change in behavior that calls into question their honesty, you can either assume that it's perfectly natural (denial; intellectually dishonest) or you can safely presume that something is off.

I know you hate it when I go into detail, and you'll probably roll your eyes until it gives you a headache. Just remember that you made the choice to define words your way, to paint me another way. If you don't wish to read my paragraphs of "boring" information, then I guess you can ignore me. I personally don't mind, one way or another.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

As I mentioned earlier, the point of this thread was to demonstrate to a couple of members that their claims of their not watching would hurt the NFL's pocketbook was meaningless. You clearly demonstrated you were not one of those two or three.

But, you seemed to call me out in the above. What "seems to you" that it takes "an intellectually dishonest person to believe that Drew Brees just suddenly changed his stance on his own" is in error. As I have also pointed out several times, my stance on kneeling during the anthem was almost identical as that originally stated by Brees in the interview. However, I also explained that after having meaningful, intelligent conversations with several individuals I came to have a different understanding of the true meaning behind the gesture. Now, I completely believe that Brees had the same conversion of thought through the same means, just as he also claimed. I know my own mind and I know I honestly changed my viewpoint.

Did Brees "suddenly change his stance on his own"? No. He never claimed to have nor has anyone else (other than you) claimed he had. He said AFTER discussing the subject with several acquaintances he came to a better understanding of the gesture and its real meaning.

It is actually intellectually dishonest to continue to ignore the explanation given by Brees ... and myself ... on the change of our perspectives. You choose to act like you believe what you wish to believe, supported by no fact, solely because is better fits your agenda.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

Actually, Mike, I was the one with the long hair kickin' back to Pink Floyd, Yes, The Who, etc. And I would have probably had a problem with one of those tests back in the late '70's.

:smokin:

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I'm woke now. I'll be watching. I finally accepted I was wrong to call Tracy Chapman Buckwheat when I was 15 but I was an immature child. I have grown to appreciate her music. Guilty as charged. Take it or leave it. Time to play some football. Cats in the cradle...all that s!@$ whatever.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

LOL. Im glad you've embraced your "privilege," Beast.
I wish i could still get into football, for real.
ya durn hippies. both of yous.
Its funny, I often hung out with the "heads" in school. most of them have no idea i didnt partake. wasnt my thing....

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

I can honestly say I've never been high in my life. Unless climbing trees counts... But I have to admit, I'd probably have thought the same thing everyone else thought when they looked at me. Actually had one particular drunk guy refer to me as "the hippie" about 13 or 14 years ago. Apparently, he hadn't seen long hair on a dude in a long time, and so it didn't matter that I was dressed the opposite of a hippie. Good times.

Re: Survey: Are you going to watch the Saints this season?
 

ive played in more redneck bars than i care to admit.
the best one i've heard is when a chick told me i must be a "yankee." : I

no clue.